86LikesHpi Pro 4
04-29-2004, 01:53 PM
#4096
SteveB,
Is it only one particular turn that the car does this? If all of Pro4's at your track have the same problem in the same corner, perhaps its the track surface...and not the cars. It could be that on that particular corner, the traction level could change. I know this to be true on many tracks, there are spots where traction is better than others. Just a thought...Let us know what you find...
Buddha
Is it only one particular turn that the car does this? If all of Pro4's at your track have the same problem in the same corner, perhaps its the track surface...and not the cars. It could be that on that particular corner, the traction level could change. I know this to be true on many tracks, there are spots where traction is better than others. Just a thought...Let us know what you find...
Buddha
04-29-2004, 03:15 PM
#4097
Tech Adept
RCBuddha
Its not at any particular turn but more the type of turn. We have a different layout at the track each week but it always seem to happen on slow tight bends but its not bad at all on high speed corners..
Its not at any particular turn but more the type of turn. We have a different layout at the track each week but it always seem to happen on slow tight bends but its not bad at all on high speed corners..
04-29-2004, 03:35 PM
#4098
...
Last edited by Erik Shauver; 09-12-2006 at 10:17 AM.
04-29-2004, 04:08 PM
#4100
Tech Adept
Erik : I will give what u say a try. It does make sense to me beacause I have always tried to set my car up equal equal and I think after reading this i do need to experiment a bit more with differant side to side setups.
04-29-2004, 04:29 PM
#4101
Tech Adept
Re: Re: Carpet set-up Questions
Originally posted by Kevin K
Ray....the 2.5 toe in makes the car more stable and not very aggressive. The 0 deg or lesser amount is going to do a couple things to the car....1 change the wheel base thus making the cars wheel base longer....the longer car will have more steering.....2 change the drive shaft angle which will effect the traction at that end of the car....It will sweep the CVD's more towards the front of the car which will increase forward bite and decrease side bite....3 with the sweep out of the arms it will change the way the shock moves through its arc....and I would think make the shock pack up harder the further in its movement it gets....4 also decrease the front track width making the car more narrow from axle to axle.....So all of these factors will lead to the front of the car being more reactive and alive....which is what you need on foams but its not desired on rubber tires....so that's why I would guess HPI included them in the kit. HPI wanted to get the car out there so anyone could take the car out of the box and drive it....and in most cases that's what happens. So once you get these blocks try them out and see what you notice.
Ray....the 2.5 toe in makes the car more stable and not very aggressive. The 0 deg or lesser amount is going to do a couple things to the car....1 change the wheel base thus making the cars wheel base longer....the longer car will have more steering.....2 change the drive shaft angle which will effect the traction at that end of the car....It will sweep the CVD's more towards the front of the car which will increase forward bite and decrease side bite....3 with the sweep out of the arms it will change the way the shock moves through its arc....and I would think make the shock pack up harder the further in its movement it gets....4 also decrease the front track width making the car more narrow from axle to axle.....So all of these factors will lead to the front of the car being more reactive and alive....which is what you need on foams but its not desired on rubber tires....so that's why I would guess HPI included them in the kit. HPI wanted to get the car out there so anyone could take the car out of the box and drive it....and in most cases that's what happens. So once you get these blocks try them out and see what you notice.
04-29-2004, 05:22 PM
#4103
Tech Champion
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Re: Re: Re: Carpet set-up Questions
Originally posted by Downforce
I disagree...A longer car takes steering away. With the arms sweeped back it allows the front to roll and dive creating more front bite. This is why they give an asphalt setup as the stock setup. With the arms forward(straight) it gives the car push, what you normally want on a carpet setup.
I disagree...A longer car takes steering away. With the arms sweeped back it allows the front to roll and dive creating more front bite. This is why they give an asphalt setup as the stock setup. With the arms forward(straight) it gives the car push, what you normally want on a carpet setup.
04-29-2004, 05:39 PM
#4104
Tech Adept
Re: Re: Re: Re: Carpet set-up Questions
Originally posted by Kevin K
The longer the car is the more it takes away the twitchiness of the steering feel off center but will increase the over all steering. On this car it might be different(I dont have the parts yet to prove this yet) but I know for a fact that on the XXXS when we took out the front pin angle the car increased in front roll and was more responsive.....as soon as you went back to the pin angle with the same static wheel base the cars steering was more timid almost to a push. I believe that the same thing will happen here when you take the pin angle out. B/c if the car with the pin angle has more steering then why would you want that on rubber tires??? When you race on rubber tires your looking for a more stable car and one that has less steering do to the traction of the rubber tires and the ability to over heat them. With foams you have a greater amount of traction and you need the front of the car to have more so it steers all the way through the corner. When it comes down to foam tires everyone is looking for the same thing 95% of the time more steering....and if more pin angle was the case then there would be a 3.5deg block and guys like Harra and others would not say that you need the lesser amount blocks to get the car to steer better on foam tires.
The longer the car is the more it takes away the twitchiness of the steering feel off center but will increase the over all steering. On this car it might be different(I dont have the parts yet to prove this yet) but I know for a fact that on the XXXS when we took out the front pin angle the car increased in front roll and was more responsive.....as soon as you went back to the pin angle with the same static wheel base the cars steering was more timid almost to a push. I believe that the same thing will happen here when you take the pin angle out. B/c if the car with the pin angle has more steering then why would you want that on rubber tires??? When you race on rubber tires your looking for a more stable car and one that has less steering do to the traction of the rubber tires and the ability to over heat them. With foams you have a greater amount of traction and you need the front of the car to have more so it steers all the way through the corner. When it comes down to foam tires everyone is looking for the same thing 95% of the time more steering....and if more pin angle was the case then there would be a 3.5deg block and guys like Harra and others would not say that you need the lesser amount blocks to get the car to steer better on foam tires.
Please read this. There will be a test first thing in the morning....
04-29-2004, 06:01 PM
#4105
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Last edited by Erik Shauver; 09-12-2006 at 10:17 AM.
04-29-2004, 06:02 PM
#4106
Tech Champion
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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Yeah that's good reading......really I didn't know that was 100% perfect and everyone should follow that to the T.
So this would lead me to believe that a LONGER wheel base would have more STEERING out of the corner or just on power do to the fact that the car is not transferring as much weight to the back of the car as it accelerates. So is this part of the website wrong?
From the section on weight transfer....The formula for the amount of weight transferred is very similar to the previous one. Now it's the inertia force times the CG height, divided by the wheelbase. (instead of track) the inertia force is equal to forward or rearward acceleration times the car's mass. So a low CG and a longer wheelbase produce less longitudinal weight transfer And as always, the transferred weight is proportional to the acceleration.
04-29-2004, 06:51 PM
#4107
The Gate set-up as it stands right now:
Heres the set-up now:
> Front
> > 4 deg castor
> > 1.5mm of droop over ride height
> > 4.5mm of ride height
> > 2.23 jaco purple/orange
> > #4 piston
> > 60wt oil
> > AE Purple 28lb?
> > inside hole on lower arm
> > and one hole in on the tower
> > 1mm under front/rear hingepin blocks
> > 2.5 toe block used
> > 2mm under inside ball stud
> > outside hole for ball stud
> > #1 position on steering rack and back hole on
> > knuckle
> >
> > Rear
> > 3.0 toe in block used
> > 1mm under front/rear hingepin blocks
> > .5mm of pro squat under rear pivot block
> > inside hole on hub and inside hole for inner ball
> stud
> > 3mm under inner ball stud
> > #3 piston
> > 40wt oil
> > outside hole on shock tower
> > middle hole on lower arm
> > Xray Blue spring ~ 25 lbs
> > Wheel base set with thin washer in front and fat
> > on back side of hub.
> > 2.23 Jaco purple
> > Gearing 96/34 Monster
> > Parma Alfa
Heres the set-up now:
> Front
> > 4 deg castor
> > 1.5mm of droop over ride height
> > 4.5mm of ride height
> > 2.23 jaco purple/orange
> > #4 piston
> > 60wt oil
> > AE Purple 28lb?
> > inside hole on lower arm
> > and one hole in on the tower
> > 1mm under front/rear hingepin blocks
> > 2.5 toe block used
> > 2mm under inside ball stud
> > outside hole for ball stud
> > #1 position on steering rack and back hole on
> > knuckle
> >
> > Rear
> > 3.0 toe in block used
> > 1mm under front/rear hingepin blocks
> > .5mm of pro squat under rear pivot block
> > inside hole on hub and inside hole for inner ball
> stud
> > 3mm under inner ball stud
> > #3 piston
> > 40wt oil
> > outside hole on shock tower
> > middle hole on lower arm
> > Xray Blue spring ~ 25 lbs
> > Wheel base set with thin washer in front and fat
> > on back side of hub.
> > 2.23 Jaco purple
> > Gearing 96/34 Monster
> > Parma Alfa
04-29-2004, 08:42 PM
#4108
ive got a few spares.i have to because the closesest hobby shop with pro 4 spares is 2000kms away
04-29-2004, 09:20 PM
#4109
anyone having problems with the steering posts coning after tightening the upperdeck? perhaps i went too far.. 
04-29-2004, 09:21 PM
#4110
... now both my bearings wont come out 