Lipo vs Nimh Racing and Minimum Weight
09-19-2007, 07:00 AM
#46
I ran our Florida State race this past weekend. I ran a brushless/lipo combo. We allowed lipos for the first time and we all agreeded to make weight based on current weight rules. I had no problems adding the 2 1/2 sticks of lead weight 
Do I think its fair? Yes...adding the weight allowed me to balance the car by moving the weight forward/aft on the lipo side.
Do I think its fair? Yes...adding the weight allowed me to balance the car by moving the weight forward/aft on the lipo side.edit: well a micro receiver and smaller servo too.
09-19-2007, 07:04 AM
#47
I ran our Florida State race this past weekend. I ran a brushless/lipo combo. We allowed lipos for the first time and we all agreeded to make weight based on current weight rules. I had no problems adding the 2 1/2 sticks of lead weight Do I think its fair? Yes...adding the weight allowed me to balance the car by moving the weight forward/aft on the lipo side.
Do I think its fair? Yes...adding the weight allowed me to balance the car by moving the weight forward/aft on the lipo side.
09-19-2007, 07:08 AM
#48
I agree that its fair to have the weight limit...the pblm is the amount...that's all...if we are going to allow lipo's, like we have been allowing 4 and 5 cell racing, then just like weight rules have been modified for those running 4 and 5 cells, so they should also be reasonable and take into account Lipo packs and how they perform...that's all. This hasnt been done. that's the issue and that's we're trying to learn more about and see what can be done...
09-19-2007, 07:09 AM
#49
tell me about it...my serpent S400 is 1300g ready to run w/ maxamps 6000mah pack(313g)! I chose that pack since it weighs a bit more and has the mah of almost 2 Orion 3200 packs...less weight to add in the end and less packs I need to have and charge. But still, to make a 1525g weight, I'll more than 200g of lead? That sucks....not beacuse I dont want to be legal, but because I know that realitacally, my cars performance will suffer at that weight versus a 6 cell mod car at the same weight...and it'll get worse in a years time when the new 4700mah nim 1.30v range packs hit the streets! Then what!? Even the 5 cells running at 1.3v will put then a ahead of lipos! Who wants to seroisly race and know that they'll be starting at a power and speed disadvantage before the tone! Its nice to race, but I'd also like to know if have a shot against similar level competition....
09-19-2007, 07:16 AM
#50
Francis- we know...no one is trying to say there shouldnt be weight limit...quite the opposite. The pblm is a weight limit that is fair and takes into account todays power sources and newer and lighter cars and batteries. For example, in 2006 we saw 4 and 5 cells becoming the new thing in the world of RC. Imagine running 4 cells or 5 cells at the old 1525g weight limit? Of course that slows the car down and just creates more stress on the car and electronics...why do you think they changed the weight limit of 4 cell to around 1350g, and 5 cell to around 1425g? Well, shouldn't the same apply to Lipo equiped cars? Lipo packs are much easier to maintain and they are as light as 4 cell nimh packs(some times even lighter depending on pack capacity)...however, they still out out 7.4V- so against 4 cell nimh packs at the same weight limit, the Lipo will be much faster. Against a 5 cell nimh car at the 5 cell weight limit, they are very close- but against a 6 cell nimh car at the 6 cell 1525g weight limit, the 6 cell nimh has the advantage. But it gets worse, due to the fact that the nimh battery war produces new bigger and stronger cells every few months, and so the gap and advantage for those running 6 cell nimh packs will improve within a year's time...Lipo will remain at 7.4v, and keeps the playing field even for all who use them, and so makes the class much more attractive and affordable for new racers and veterans alike. Its like a 1/12 scale car racing against 1/10 TC, but the poor 1/12 scale has to run at 1525g TC weight!? Or an electric TC running at the 1725g or so nitro car weight limit...guess who will have the edge? Same thing...it just seems some people are looking the other way when it comes to this issue.
Like I stated before...5 cell nimh cars and 4 cell nimh cars have reveised their weight limit rules accordingly to compensate for the weight drop and balance out the car's performance and lower power source and weight. All I'm arguing is that maybe the same should be done for those running lipo packs alongside those running 6 cell or 5 cell nimh packs...
We already know that 5 cell nimh cars at their weight limit are faster per lap and run cooler more efficient than 6 cell nimh cars at their 1525g weight limit...isnt that one the main ideas? less power less weight, better electronics performance and better car parts durability?
All i'm saying is that we can drop the weight limit to 1450g across the board...that would help everyone. At that weight,, its similar for 5 cell nimh and lipo performance wise, and will also slow down the 6 cell nimh cars a bit so the lipo and 5 cells can keep up....suggestions welcome...
Like I stated before...5 cell nimh cars and 4 cell nimh cars have reveised their weight limit rules accordingly to compensate for the weight drop and balance out the car's performance and lower power source and weight. All I'm arguing is that maybe the same should be done for those running lipo packs alongside those running 6 cell or 5 cell nimh packs...
We already know that 5 cell nimh cars at their weight limit are faster per lap and run cooler more efficient than 6 cell nimh cars at their 1525g weight limit...isnt that one the main ideas? less power less weight, better electronics performance and better car parts durability?
All i'm saying is that we can drop the weight limit to 1450g across the board...that would help everyone. At that weight,, its similar for 5 cell nimh and lipo performance wise, and will also slow down the 6 cell nimh cars a bit so the lipo and 5 cells can keep up....suggestions welcome...
I really think that the lipo and the current 6 cell NIMH packs are close enough that they should run at the same weight limit. You also didn't mention if your comparison was based on Mod testing, 19 turn, or Stock. I can pretty much tell you that 5 cell is only competitive in mod even with the favored weight advantage.
09-19-2007, 07:17 AM
#51
tell me about it...my serpent S400 is 1300g ready to run w/ maxamps 6000mah pack(313g)! I chose that pack since it weighs a bit more and has the mah of almost 2 Orion 3200 packs...less weight to add in the end and less packs I need to have and charge. But still, to make a 1525g weight, I'll more than 200g of lead? That sucks....not beacuse I dont want to be legal, but because I know that realitacally, my cars performance will suffer at that weight versus a 6 cell mod car at the same weight...and it'll get worse in a years time when the new 4700mah nim 1.30v range packs hit the streets! Then what! Who wants to race and know that they'll be starting at a power and speed disadvantage before the tone! Its nice to race, but I'd also like to know if have a shot against similar level competition....
You arent getting a lot of support here from the nimh or lipo crowd. I think pretty much everyone is saying keep the weight limit as it is now.
09-19-2007, 07:20 AM
#52
Whining- that's all this is! You don't like the rules don't run by them.The rules if you want to follow them are in black and white - car weight is 1525 grams. This is a useless thread since you don't like rules .It's real simple the present cars are made for the present total car weight.Maybe in a year or so they'll build cars just for Lipos and then we'll change the car weight.
09-19-2007, 07:25 AM
#53
Whining- that's all this is! You don't like the rules don't run by them.The rules if you want to follow them are in black and white - car weight is 1525 grams. This is a useless thread since you don't like rules .It's real simple the present cars are made for the present total car weight.Maybe in a year or so they'll build cars just for Lipos and then we'll change the car weight.
Or is this the new method of getting lipo threads closed?
09-19-2007, 07:42 AM
#54
Ok lets clear a few things up.........the weight reduction for 5 cell is to make up for the 17% power source reduction......the weight reduction is only 5%.
weight reduction = 5%
power reduction = 17%
This is why 5 cell is only faster in mod....you can motor up.
A 5 cell stock or 19 turn car will never be as fast as a 6 cell car.
What I don't understand is why there should be a weight reduction for lipo when there is virtually no power reduction.
weight reduction = 5%
power reduction = 17%
This is why 5 cell is only faster in mod....you can motor up.
A 5 cell stock or 19 turn car will never be as fast as a 6 cell car.
What I don't understand is why there should be a weight reduction for lipo when there is virtually no power reduction.
09-19-2007, 07:44 AM
#55
I've read it. It's one guy whinning he does like the car weights with lipos. He has to add weight.He races in one area at a local track. If he want's the rules at his local track to change see them.Who cares about what 4600 will be- I can tell you the lipos are here just like the Brushless motors. Old technolgy is getting phased out and the new is coming and fast.Until then add the weight!
09-19-2007, 07:49 AM
#56
Whining- that's all this is! You don't like the rules don't run by them.The rules if you want to follow them are in black and white - car weight is 1525 grams. This is a useless thread since you don't like rules .It's real simple the present cars are made for the present total car weight.Maybe in a year or so they'll build cars just for Lipos and then we'll change the car weight.
Like I said, 2 choices, seperate class or weigh the car up... I wouldnt say this has been a very noticable subject on this forum, so im guessing it hasnt been a problem for the majority.
09-19-2007, 07:57 AM
#57
Tech Apprentice
R/C car design is heavily predicated upon the placement (and weight) of batteries. Changing the rules runs the risk if running cars in a manner for which none of them were designed.
With LiPo and added weight, you have a lot of opportunities to add weight for ballast that an NiMH car may not have, possibly giving you a handling advantage.
With LiPo and added weight, you have a lot of opportunities to add weight for ballast that an NiMH car may not have, possibly giving you a handling advantage.
09-19-2007, 08:02 AM
#58
I'm a lipo supporter my self but I pretty much support it for the convenience. You guys are acting like the added weight is penalty weight when it is really just a standard minimum weight for each chasis. Since we are only talking club racing you will see guys running gp 3300, 3800, and 4200 nimh batts. Should the 3300's get a weight advantage also? 
09-19-2007, 08:22 AM
#60
I'm a lipo supporter my self but I pretty much support it for the convenience. You guys are acting like the added weight is penalty weight when it is really just a standard minimum weight for each chasis. Since we are only talking club racing you will see guys running gp 3300, 3800, and 4200 nimh batts. Should the 3300's get a weight advantage also?