Trips

iTrader: (16)

By their nature, there will only be one successful brushless motor/esc at any given time. Since there's no tuning to be done, whichever motor/esc is the most powerful at that time will be the one everyone will have to buy to remain competitive.

Just like Trinity/EPIC or Integy/EPIC, AE/Yokomo, Fantom/Yokomo, the jap and chinese factories will churn out 1000's of motors in what ever colour and sticker/lable you want!

I just hope they don't churn out better motors every few months! I can handle a $49-$60 motor investment a few times a year no problem... Up that to $250-$300 and I can't keep up.


Powerful motors don't always win races the winning guys always have very good driving skills and car setup! This fact will remain.

I realize it's not all about power. But you can't play it down too much either. At our last carpet race I managed to set TQ by a second or so with a ten turn motor, the guy who qualified second swapped his 9 turn for a 7 turn and took the win in the main. I finished second about 3/4 of a second behind him. Had I maybe gone up on the timing or dropped a nine turn in my car I don't think he'd have held me off for the win. Changing the timing is free, another armature is $25-$35. Had we been racing brushless I'd be looking at $250-$300 to keep up with him.

Maybe I've got this all wrong. I sure hope so. But any way I look at it it seems that by eliminating the tuning aspect of motors, the only way to get more power is to buy it outright. And it'll be expensive.

Trips

dtm

Modeltech's version of tuning is to allow the magnetic armature to be changed. This is only for the latest version of their BL motors, the old version was sealed.

KerryG

We just received additional information on the new motor design. You can view the updated article at:
http://www.wildhobbies.com/news/defa...&articleid=388

-Kerry
WildHobbies.com

Doc Martin

Any idea how much this brushless motor and ESC will cost? How is the can sealed? Is it screwed on? The reason I ask about this is that the previous Modeltech one was sealed but the end tended to open up on impact with my unit. The configuration looks a lot like the Modeltech unit but the dimensions and magnets are different. Congrats to Orion!

KerryG

I will bring you the information as fast as I get it. I only have the specs and picture that have been given to me. I am all over them for information right now.

Doc Martin

Kerry G: I saw your post on TTT earlier stating that Orion is following IFMAR specifications for motors and I wondered if the price ( which is also IFMAR specified ) will follow as well? That would be good news. I dont know if your post is still there but in the past the Trinity people remove all referneces to BL systems as soon as they are posted.

KerryG

They have been keeping these threads going for some reason. I sure hope they follow IFMAR rules on pricing. Wether they can is yet to be seen since the IFMAR rules set pricing differently between stock and mod motors so where would a BL motor fit in if it can have multiple profiles? I think IFMAR is a bit more forward-thinking than ROAR so we will probably see something from IFMAR is 2002 or 2003 with ROAR following the following year. It is hard to say because the big motor makers (wont mention any particular message-killing company) are really against BL motors. The motor companies wont make the killing they are by selling us truckloads of brushes, comm lathes, comm drops, etc. A BL motor doesn't generate the residual income a standard motor does and with the longer life means you aren't buying as many either. So while a really good selection of brushless motors is great for the hobby, it will not be embraced by some of the biggest companies.

Doc Martin

TTT has been keeping these threads going? Well I guess they are finally keeping their options open and MAY be considering making a BL too.
I hope the release date for the Orion motor is really Jan 2002. They will have to make a different ESC as they mentioned because they are making a sensorless BL whereas the Novak one will be sensored. I understand sensorless is better. Antoniop is an authority on this he would know for certain.

Doc Martin

Kerry G any updates from Orion?

Drifter

I dont think that any motormanufacturer who can offer a good brushless system will hold it back. Everyone prefers to make money now, and doesnt think to far ahaed. To offer a reliable brushless system first is a hughe advantage against motor companies selling brushed motors.
But, after all, the motors are no problem. They are available in hundreds of sizes and spezifications for boats and planes, and could be used for cars also. The problem is the speedcontroller, this is what NOVAK is working for so long, and ORION is not offering one yet. Without a specifically for cars built ESC the motors are worthless...
By the way, ORION thinks about making money in the future, their motor uses feritte magnets, which will keep getting worn out. Most of my modifieds are not worth racing anymore because the magnets faded away, and not because the comm is trued away...
About the price: I do belive brushless motors should be made to the highest quality standards available (rare earth magnets) because it last longer than a modified, you dont have any spareparts to buy (brushes), and it should be enough to own one. Everyone running brushed motors is having a lot of them. Concerning all off this a brushless motor can be about 50%
more expensive than a modified (thats less than the amount of money we spend on brushes in a modifiedmotors lifetime), and still racing will be cheaper for us. But we should insist on getting the best quality for our money, so this is how the rules must be made.
The brushless thing is exactly what we need, but regulations have to be thought out (rare earth magnets have to be allowed, smaller motors would make enough power, so why not use them?) and we customers should be carefull when and what to buy. Interesting times are coming...

dtm

I don't kow what magnet Modeltech uses in their BL but it is much stronger than anything else I've come across.

The motor "opened up" once and I was holding the armature (magnet) to look at it. Whilst I was holding it I could feel it "pulsing" a little..... it was kind of freaky! Then I found that it was actually picking up the motor of a fan I had on my pit table.... the fan was 2 feet away!!! I checked and every time I moved the armature to about 2 feet of the fan the armature would pulse!!!! it was seriously moving when it was closer!! This magnet is totally crazy!!