It's Everybody's Fault
12-22-2006, 06:31 AM
#61
Tech Initiate
The RC Pro Series is even going to allow Lipo's next year in the mod classes. 
12-22-2006, 07:07 AM
#62
I do not know about the RC Pro Series allowing LiPo, but I do know this is little new Bass Pro Series will allow LiPo and 4 cell and 5 cell and 6 cell all at the same time in the same class or Stock, 19T and Mod.
My view, weight and let them run....
Sorry that we could only get at the one Bass Pro loction for 2007, but we have hope... for 2008... We follow most of the ROAR rules but we are breaking out in some areas....
But back to the topic... I completely agree... If you do not like it, take ownership in a part and help fix it. "Lead, Follow, or the out of the way"
My view, weight and let them run....
Sorry that we could only get at the one Bass Pro loction for 2007, but we have hope... for 2008... We follow most of the ROAR rules but we are breaking out in some areas....
But back to the topic... I completely agree... If you do not like it, take ownership in a part and help fix it. "Lead, Follow, or the out of the way"
12-22-2006, 07:29 AM
#63
Originally Posted by bvoltz
I do not know about the RC Pro Series allowing LiPo, but I do know this is little new Bass Pro Series will allow LiPo and 4 cell and 5 cell and 6 cell all at the same time in the same class or Stock, 19T and Mod.
My view, weight and let them run....
Sorry that we could only get at the one Bass Pro loction for 2007, but we have hope... for 2008... We follow most of the ROAR rules but we are breaking out in some areas....
But back to the topic... I completely agree... If you do not like it, take ownership in a part and help fix it. "Lead, Follow, or the out of the way"
My view, weight and let them run....
Sorry that we could only get at the one Bass Pro loction for 2007, but we have hope... for 2008... We follow most of the ROAR rules but we are breaking out in some areas....
But back to the topic... I completely agree... If you do not like it, take ownership in a part and help fix it. "Lead, Follow, or the out of the way"
12-22-2006, 07:36 AM
#64
.
I remember the good ole days....back in 1988 when I started racing. Had the ole RC10....SCE and SCR batteries. Racing 2wd dirt buggy and having major fun. Joel Johnson, Jay Halsey, Masami, and Cliff Lett were so of the BIG NAMES in the hobby at the time. Yes the really experienced drivers were racing 4wd buggies like the YZ10....Schumacher Cat....and the AYK Radiant. Heck I tihnk a little later Eistice Moore came out with his conversion for the 4wd RC10. Those were the days....less drama....less sponsored drivers....more tracks and more people having fun because we didn't take this HOBBY so seriously!!! (At least I didn't and still don't) Look at today. People strut their stuff around because they have a %50 off deal from a manufacturer. BIG DEAL!! I still race for fun but's it's getting harder and harder with so many attitudes at the track. Too many rules...and classes. Speed is all everyone wants. Those that oppose 4 or 5 cells are the same ones will be be in the same finishing position no matter how many cells are used. All forms of real racing have rules that limit speed or traction or something. It's about finding the speed and handling within the rules. I see this hobby having some serious issues coming up soon and they need to be addressed or another downturn is right around the corner. The Joe ClubRacer like me just might the the thing of the past. I think I might dust off my Sig Cadet and start flying r/c planes again. Oh well....those were the good ole days!!!
12-22-2006, 07:45 AM
#65
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
Dead on MCSmooth.
15 years ago when I started out in the hobby everybody that raced at the track would pitch in to help build and maintain that track, now we stuggle to get one or two people to help and have to rent equipment to compensate. This year I brought over some of my equipment and that helped but after seeing a lack of help even I gave up. Somehow after all this time I became no better. Its pathetic people think that their race fees entitle them to the world. I still help out when I can but its tought to make time to do it when nobody else is willing.
THE WORLD IS GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET THE RC INDUSTRY IS JUST GOING WITH IT.
15 years ago when I started out in the hobby everybody that raced at the track would pitch in to help build and maintain that track, now we stuggle to get one or two people to help and have to rent equipment to compensate. This year I brought over some of my equipment and that helped but after seeing a lack of help even I gave up. Somehow after all this time I became no better. Its pathetic people think that their race fees entitle them to the world. I still help out when I can but its tought to make time to do it when nobody else is willing.
THE WORLD IS GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET THE RC INDUSTRY IS JUST GOING WITH IT.
12-22-2006, 07:52 AM
#66
I just want to point out the argument I hear on this site and all other forums, which was mentioned earlier about, "If you want to support your hobby shop you will buy from them instead of trying to save some money and purchasing through a big mail order house." I understand the thinking behind this, but in reality it is not the consumer who is making this the problem and it never has been or was for that matter.
The manufacturers who sell their product from the start are to blame, if they didn't give all these big mail order houses deals on buying quantitiy from them, the big mail order houses wouldn't be able to sell the stuff with such undercutting prices. Who do you think sells more car kits or anything hobby related, the big warehouses or your local hobby shop. The mail order houses are pushing major quantities of product which motivates R&D for newer better products. If the only thing all these new companies and manufacturers had to rely on was the hobby shops, one of two things would happen, either you would have tons of hobby shops, which would be a good thing or very few manufacturers left! If the mail order houses couldn't sell for such low prices over the hobby shops they would all plunder and all you would have is hobby shops. Who's the one selling to the mail order houses for such good deals on quantity, The Manufacturers that's who! I find it ironic that the manufacturers will tell you you should buy from your local hobby shop to support them but in the end they are selling their mass quantities to the mail order houses to make their $$$$ and then telling you not too buy from them that you should support your local hobby shop! How much sense does that make? Their keeping their businesses alive by such large scale sales but then blame the consumer for not supporting their local hobby shop. It's a catch 22, it completely contradicts itself? You want us to support the hobby shops, then only sell to a hobby shop, then know one will have a choice otherwise how can we the consumer be to blame?
If you were out looking for a real car for example and you could buy a new car at a dealership for $29,000 or puchase from a place that could supply you the same car and warranty for $26,000, let me guess, "You should buy from your local dealership to help support them not try to save a few bucks somewhere else"! This can be applied to any materialistic thing you would want. How many people in this forum or anywhere for that matter prefer to pay substantially more for something to help support that specific store or dealer, NO ONE! Everyone is looking to get whatever it is for the lowest price possible no matter what it is!
The manufacturers who sell their product from the start are to blame, if they didn't give all these big mail order houses deals on buying quantitiy from them, the big mail order houses wouldn't be able to sell the stuff with such undercutting prices. Who do you think sells more car kits or anything hobby related, the big warehouses or your local hobby shop. The mail order houses are pushing major quantities of product which motivates R&D for newer better products. If the only thing all these new companies and manufacturers had to rely on was the hobby shops, one of two things would happen, either you would have tons of hobby shops, which would be a good thing or very few manufacturers left! If the mail order houses couldn't sell for such low prices over the hobby shops they would all plunder and all you would have is hobby shops. Who's the one selling to the mail order houses for such good deals on quantity, The Manufacturers that's who! I find it ironic that the manufacturers will tell you you should buy from your local hobby shop to support them but in the end they are selling their mass quantities to the mail order houses to make their $$$$ and then telling you not too buy from them that you should support your local hobby shop! How much sense does that make? Their keeping their businesses alive by such large scale sales but then blame the consumer for not supporting their local hobby shop. It's a catch 22, it completely contradicts itself? You want us to support the hobby shops, then only sell to a hobby shop, then know one will have a choice otherwise how can we the consumer be to blame?
If you were out looking for a real car for example and you could buy a new car at a dealership for $29,000 or puchase from a place that could supply you the same car and warranty for $26,000, let me guess, "You should buy from your local dealership to help support them not try to save a few bucks somewhere else"! This can be applied to any materialistic thing you would want. How many people in this forum or anywhere for that matter prefer to pay substantially more for something to help support that specific store or dealer, NO ONE! Everyone is looking to get whatever it is for the lowest price possible no matter what it is!
12-22-2006, 08:01 AM
#67
Originally Posted by muahdib4
They're building a new Bass Pro here in the Kansas City area. Hopefully they'll be able to host one of these too. Looks like a lot of fun, though you're missing the Minis...LOL...like you need another class.
12-22-2006, 08:08 AM
#68
I too remember the good old days, I used to race at ranch pit shop in Pomna!
I can't stand racing at todays super hi tech, dollar and attitude standards. I'm tired of the battery war, multitudes of tire compound and inserts, and the very large cliques giving stink eye.
I run for fun when I can. I will never run tour cars again. maybe at Tamiya TCS in the f103 pan car class with lipo.
for now I have a electric rally car, and hope to be part of a resurgence of rally comp in so cal. I also am building a 2.2 class crawler. who knows if I learn how to drive it up a rock wall I may compete here also. 2mph straight up hill!! LOL. and I will be buying a truggy for fun and maybe comp. there is a very large sportsman class in Socal.
When sitting around with over cafenated, over fed racers gets to me, I go to my other fav activity, mountain biking. I have a great bike, full susp. carbon frame w/mavic xmax wheels. I have had my adrenalin fix here more than once. but crashing can cancel all the above out.
Yes I am to blame, with my attitude, my lack of support for the local track and hobby store. and sadly lack of money.
We are all to blame.
I can't stand racing at todays super hi tech, dollar and attitude standards. I'm tired of the battery war, multitudes of tire compound and inserts, and the very large cliques giving stink eye.
I run for fun when I can. I will never run tour cars again. maybe at Tamiya TCS in the f103 pan car class with lipo.
for now I have a electric rally car, and hope to be part of a resurgence of rally comp in so cal. I also am building a 2.2 class crawler. who knows if I learn how to drive it up a rock wall I may compete here also. 2mph straight up hill!! LOL. and I will be buying a truggy for fun and maybe comp. there is a very large sportsman class in Socal.
When sitting around with over cafenated, over fed racers gets to me, I go to my other fav activity, mountain biking. I have a great bike, full susp. carbon frame w/mavic xmax wheels. I have had my adrenalin fix here more than once. but crashing can cancel all the above out.
Yes I am to blame, with my attitude, my lack of support for the local track and hobby store. and sadly lack of money.
We are all to blame.
12-22-2006, 08:14 AM
#69
Tech Master
iTrader: (10)
Wailinonya... you have a very valid point. In the golf industry the manufactures set a Minimum advertised price (MAP) if you get caught selling a current product line below MAP you get your account pulled same with if you get caught selling on EBAY. Some companies enforce this heavily some are more lax most smaller retailers such as myself simply only carry the companies who enforce the policies. I know some distributors are harder to deal with in the RC industry and I've always asked whey deal with them then and the same thing is always said my customers would have be pissed. My question is where are they getting the kits in the first place... Online... when a customer of mine comes to me with a club I don't sell or service I simply tell them they have to take it back to where they got it from which is usually ebay or an online house which is no help this usually guarantees next time they buy from one of the manufactuers I carry.
If my local hobby shop didn't sell anything from a certain manufactuer I don't see a problem with it but they guy that bought it online and needs a part ASAP does... thats a problem. Hobby shops need to stop carrying everything and push products that make a good margin. The reality is the racer is still a minority I think if more shops practiced this they would stay in business....
In the end you are deffinatly right the manufactuer needs to set a MAP and enforce it strictly so that online shops, local shops etc... can all make a good margin. I know that most people wouldn't bother shopping online if they could get the same deal down the street.
On the same note hobby shops do make keystone on parts and smaller items and some of those items they need to think about discounting more like tires in this day we go though a lot more tires than we used to and to try and make keystone on something like that would be like me trying to make keystone on golf balls... it just isn't going to happen. If golf balls where twice as expensive in my shop as they can get online I'd never sell any but the volume at which I sell I can afford to make a 30% margin instead of a 100% markup. Everybody really needs to do a better job of working together and the manufactuers and need to step up and protect the local hobby shops.
If my local hobby shop didn't sell anything from a certain manufactuer I don't see a problem with it but they guy that bought it online and needs a part ASAP does... thats a problem. Hobby shops need to stop carrying everything and push products that make a good margin. The reality is the racer is still a minority I think if more shops practiced this they would stay in business....
In the end you are deffinatly right the manufactuer needs to set a MAP and enforce it strictly so that online shops, local shops etc... can all make a good margin. I know that most people wouldn't bother shopping online if they could get the same deal down the street.
On the same note hobby shops do make keystone on parts and smaller items and some of those items they need to think about discounting more like tires in this day we go though a lot more tires than we used to and to try and make keystone on something like that would be like me trying to make keystone on golf balls... it just isn't going to happen. If golf balls where twice as expensive in my shop as they can get online I'd never sell any but the volume at which I sell I can afford to make a 30% margin instead of a 100% markup. Everybody really needs to do a better job of working together and the manufactuers and need to step up and protect the local hobby shops.
12-22-2006, 08:14 AM
#70
Originally Posted by WailinOnYa
If you were out looking for a real car for example and you could buy a new car at a dealership for $29,000 or puchase from a place that could supply you the same car and warranty for $26,000, let me guess, "You should buy from your local dealership to help support them not try to save a few bucks somewhere else"! This can be applied to any materialistic thing you would want. How many people in this forum or anywhere for that matter prefer to pay substantially more for something to help support that specific store or dealer, NO ONE! Everyone is looking to get whatever it is for the lowest price possible no matter what it is!
Your example is good but falls slightly short.
Imagine you go to the dealership that is 50 miles away instead of the one down the street. You save your money but in a year your local dealership goes out of business and you are now stuck driving 50 miles for your warranty service and for any other problems. The inconvenience may be worth it for a $3000 savings. But for what savings is it no longer worth it?
My point is that paying a bit more to help maintain a facility/shop that provides a service you require or want is not an unrealistic expectation.
12-22-2006, 08:20 AM
#71
Hey Rick, I know its been a while back but just wanted to say I'm glad to see you make the jump to ASSOCIATED! Hope you can make it to some Off-Road races too! 
Hope you can make it to some Off-Road races too!
12-22-2006, 08:22 AM
#72
Originally Posted by TEAM-AE-4-EVER
Hey Rick, I know its been a while back but just wanted to say I'm glad to see you make the jump to ASSOCIATED! Hope you can make it to some Off-Road races too!
Hope you can make it to some Off-Road races too!
12-22-2006, 08:25 AM
#73
Supporting the LHS is a good thing. I pay a little more for some things but when the LHS doesn't carry an item and the only thing they have or can get comparable costs $80 rather than $30...I won't be buying at my LHS. That's a situation I ran into recently and the reason my LHS couldn't get the item is because they would pay the same amount to stock that item as I would be paying to the online retailer. They would make $0. It just goes back to the whole "It's Everybody's Fault". I did buy a motor, charger and tires so my LHS did get the bulk of my $$$ though.
12-22-2006, 08:29 AM
#74
Sometimes loyalty is needed, but not rewarded, so people go elsewhere for their equipment and their racing.
I dont meen that in a bad way, just that sometimes if you are loyal for a long time and get nothing in return you go elsewhere.... Or if you're happy enough with a given situation and you stay with what you know is best
But some people will not stay loyal because they like different tracks, so there are so many varibles in r/c racing and that makes things very hard to judge sometimes.
I dont think r/c should be discussed in a negative way because that does no good for it, but instead think of it as a hobby you enjoy at your own personal level
I dont meen that in a bad way, just that sometimes if you are loyal for a long time and get nothing in return you go elsewhere.... Or if you're happy enough with a given situation and you stay with what you know is best
But some people will not stay loyal because they like different tracks, so there are so many varibles in r/c racing and that makes things very hard to judge sometimes.
I dont think r/c should be discussed in a negative way because that does no good for it, but instead think of it as a hobby you enjoy at your own personal level
12-22-2006, 08:39 AM
#75
Rick:
I understand what you mean, but in the end you the manufacturer or dealer can control this by only selling to hobbyshops and eliminating the middle guy which would drive far more people to pay the extra money and support their local hobbyshop. I realize also that some people don't have the means to travel far distances to get to their nearest hobbyshop and may very well never see a track and this in turn motivates them to only order. It just seems to me manufacturers could set up direct ordering only through their company. If a hobby establishment were to order they get the discount, if it's consumer they pay the normal retail. Eliminate the big mail order houses all together then you will have plenty of Hobbyshop support. I am willing to pay more for parts, tires, etc. to support the Hobbyshop, mainly because these are time frame based items, in that if you break a part and need it of course you will buy it at the counter, but when you start getting into highend like radios, car kits, electronics the price gap starts to increase dramaticaly. I have bought some car kits through the hobby shop and some through mail order. If the manufacturer only sold through hobbyshops or at retail through their own location, odds are the hobbshop would be the better deal and I would only buy through them unless I needed parts they didn't have! To me it just seems like it is something that could easily be controled, everyone is to hppy with the way things are now and just don't want to admit it!
I understand what you mean, but in the end you the manufacturer or dealer can control this by only selling to hobbyshops and eliminating the middle guy which would drive far more people to pay the extra money and support their local hobbyshop. I realize also that some people don't have the means to travel far distances to get to their nearest hobbyshop and may very well never see a track and this in turn motivates them to only order. It just seems to me manufacturers could set up direct ordering only through their company. If a hobby establishment were to order they get the discount, if it's consumer they pay the normal retail. Eliminate the big mail order houses all together then you will have plenty of Hobbyshop support. I am willing to pay more for parts, tires, etc. to support the Hobbyshop, mainly because these are time frame based items, in that if you break a part and need it of course you will buy it at the counter, but when you start getting into highend like radios, car kits, electronics the price gap starts to increase dramaticaly. I have bought some car kits through the hobby shop and some through mail order. If the manufacturer only sold through hobbyshops or at retail through their own location, odds are the hobbshop would be the better deal and I would only buy through them unless I needed parts they didn't have! To me it just seems like it is something that could easily be controled, everyone is to hppy with the way things are now and just don't want to admit it!