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Old 12-21-2006, 07:41 AM   #1366
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer
OK... For 10 scale sedans, how about 4 classes/licenses/what-ever_you_want_to_CALL_IT

Class 1: beginner/novice, Motor: non-rebuildable stock Battery: 3800 MAX Car kit: $300 SRP
Can not be company/vendor sponsored, The Fun Class....

Class 2: Sportsman: Motor: rebuildable Stock and brushless, 4300 battery ANy kit car,
AGAIN non-sponsored The Competitive Class

Class 3: The expert: 19 turn or less, brushless. batteries: any plus lipos
Can be sponsored but not the full ride. The Fast Class

Class 4: THe Pro class: Anything and everything goes , modified motors, lipos, batteries. The EXPERT Class.


How'd I do?????
I kinda like it... The thought of stick packs in Stock... now that would be interesting... The factory guys would run away from that....
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:54 AM   #1367
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Originally Posted by bvoltz
I kinda like it... The thought of stick packs in Stock... now that would be interesting... The factory guys would run away from that....
You can get stick packs with top level cells in them. The local Mini Cooper guys here are running Trinity matched IB4200 stick packs.
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:03 AM   #1368
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You can get stick packs with top level cells in them. The local Mini Cooper guys here are running Trinity matched IB4200 stick packs.
I must say, they have gone to far with the idea of the Mini... But hey if that is what they want to do as a group, then I happy for them... Just make them add weight....
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:05 AM   #1369
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Nova,

What about the guy who wants to run LiPo and brushless on a sportsman level?

What about the the guys who run at tracks where 27 turn (my new years resolution is to never call it stock again) is too slow for their track.

It's not that what you posted is a bad idea, but try implementing and enforcing it. Every track and club has a different set of racers and circumstances. It's impossible to come up with one set of rules that can apply everywhere.

Add to that racers by their nature are selfish. They want to race what they want to race. They don't care about what's better for the hobby, they only care about what's better for them. Yes, there are exceptions, so don't go crazy you guys that help. This selfishness isn't a bad thing, just a fact of life. I mean look at the temper tantrums some people threw when ROAR just considered the idea of 4 cell.

Are there problems in our hobby? Yes! Are 27 turn sedans too fast and too expensive? Yes! How do we solve these problems? Now that's the million dollar question!
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:29 AM   #1370
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Originally Posted by jiml
Nova,

What about the guy who wants to run LiPo and brushless on a sportsman level?

What about the the guys who run at tracks where 27 turn (my new years resolution is to never call it stock again) is too slow for their track.

It's not that what you posted is a bad idea, but try implementing and enforcing it. Every track and club has a different set of racers and circumstances. It's impossible to come up with one set of rules that can apply everywhere.

Add to that racers by their nature are selfish. They want to race what they want to race. They don't care about what's better for the hobby, they only care about what's better for them. Yes, there are exceptions, so don't go crazy you guys that help. This selfishness isn't a bad thing, just a fact of life. I mean look at the temper tantrums some people threw when ROAR just considered the idea of 4 cell.

Are there problems in our hobby? Yes! Are 27 turn sedans too fast and too expensive? Yes! How do we solve these problems? Now that's the million dollar question!
Ok, what I posted was a start point and if ROAR would adopted something like this and enforce it I willing to bet that the local/club races would follow. Look at the all "big event " races now, they all use some of the ROAR rules don't they?!?!?! How many races/events have you seen where the ROAR rules are present?

We have to start somewhere don't we? Let's help ROAR make the first step and build on it instead of trying to find ways to do nothing and the problem gets bigger.

The 4 cell debate... I think the tide has turned and more people are looking at it as something that might be good for the hobby in the long run. I also think that it has to be tested, benchmarked with real data, not just some one's opinion. Josh and others are already started this and their opinions means something, others who post their opinions without actual hands on experience are just wasting diskspace and bandwidth...

And I am planning to run 4 cells after Xmas in my X-ray T2 to see what it's like and will post my opinion....
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:32 AM   #1371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvoltz
I must say, they have gone to far with the idea of the Mini... But hey if that is what they want to do as a group, then I happy for them... Just make them add weight....
Actually, I've gone beyound that with my mini cooper....

I've built a 4 wheel drive shaft driven Tamiya Cooper that is the same length and width as the short mini cooper.... I put the high speed gears with a silver can motor along with a good stick pack and this car screams....
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:46 AM   #1372
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I keep hearing that this will be good for the hobby... So if TC goes 4 cell are Stadium Trucks going to follow? Buggies? The E-Maxx will take 2 4 cell packs instead of 2 6 cell packs? NF and TTR 5th scale Motorcycles? All the bashing based RTR's and Kits out there?
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:10 AM   #1373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
I keep hearing that this will be good for the hobby... So if TC goes 4 cell are Stadium Trucks going to follow? Buggies? The E-Maxx will take 2 4 cell packs instead of 2 6 cell packs? NF and TTR 5th scale Motorcycles? All the bashing based RTR's and Kits out there?
I've been asking the same question but nobody will address that. Everyone here must only run Mod TCs because they won't address how this will force TCs to be even further removed from all those which will keep new people away from TC racing. Now they want to talk about Minis in a couple posts and they are fairly popular but you won't be able to run 4-5cell in those either without chassis mods. Like I've been saying...find a way to slow things down without reengineering the entire hobby if slowing things down is really the intent.
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Old 12-21-2006, 10:46 AM   #1374
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I will say this again, "The whole idea of trying to slow the cars down is a farse!!!" Again, think about what I posted a couple of pages ago. Racers will gear up and skirt the rules just enough to keep the same speeds or slightly increase them. They will then be the same ones again crying when their motors and ESCs burn up because of it. But, who are the ones complaining now? Mainly the ones that get their motors and ESCs free from their sponsors anyway. Most of us that race on a budget don't abuse our equipment like that because we would have to replace the burnt out stuff ourselves, not our sponsors.

This whole reducing cells debate has been a political ploy to eventually help manufacturers increase profit margins due to "us" rushing out and buying even more batteries, motors, ESCs, etc, to try to keep up with the competition. You don't have this same "slowing them down" argument in nitro. In that realm, you strap it on and go for it. If you can handle to speed, fine, if not, them you know you will be near the back of the pack. And if touring car is too slow for you, you step it up to 1/8th scale with multi-port .21s. Again, if the mod guys are complaining about burning up stuff, gear down or use lower-wind motors. Those choices are currently out there now (without changing rules). My opinion is leave the rule at 6-cell max and if a racer wants to run 4 or 5 cells, that is their choice.
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:02 AM   #1375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLock
I will say this again, "The whole idea of trying to slow the cars down is a farse!!!" Again, think about what I posted a couple of pages ago. Racers will gear up and skirt the rules just enough to keep the same speeds or slightly increase them. They will then be the same ones again crying when their motors and ESCs burn up because of it. But, who are the ones complaining now? Mainly the ones that get their motors and ESCs free from their sponsors anyway. Most of us that race on a budget don't abuse our equipment like that because we would have to replace the burnt out stuff ourselves, not our sponsors.

This whole reducing cells debate has been a political ploy to eventually help manufacturers increase profit margins due to "us" rushing out and buying even more batteries, motors, ESCs, etc, to try to keep up with the competition. You don't have this same "slowing them down" argument in nitro. In that realm, you strap it on and go for it. If you can handle to speed, fine, if not, them you know you will be near the back of the pack. And if touring car is too slow for you, you step it up to 1/8th scale with multi-port .21s. Again, if the mod guys are complaining about burning up stuff, gear down or use lower-wind motors. Those choices are currently out there now (without changing rules). My opinion is leave the rule at 6-cell max and if a racer wants to run 4 or 5 cells, that is their choice.
You can keep things the same ..

keep beating up on the begginer`s in stock....
untill no one races sedan`s
because

no one new is joining the fun as things are....

your choice .....

No change = doom

with change , a chance to grow.....
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:17 AM   #1376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
You can keep things the same ..

keep beating up on the begginer`s in stock....
untill no one races sedan`s
because

no one new is joining the fun as things are....

your choice .....

No change = doom

with change , a chance to grow.....
What does the change do? Nothing. Gearing will get things back up to speeds just about as fast as they were and will be harder on batteries now plus you will have to have different battery packs for your TC and your electric offroad stuff. So, I'm sure that will draw more people to TC racing and help it grow. So with these issues in mind, please explain how you believe this change would draw more people to TC racing. If people are beating up on beginners in stock then people need to be pushed to move up out of stock or a different "Stock" class needs to be formed. Change for the sake of change doesn't help anything to grow.
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:27 AM   #1377
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Its not the speed .....
Its about

Getting Sedan racer`s to move up into mod or 19t....

Nothing seems to had worked in encouraging the stock racer to advance and the sport is about dead as a result....


Look at this though a beginner`s eye`s and the story will be become more clear....
or


a experience racer who races mod ....
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:40 AM   #1378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Its not the speed .....
Its about

Getting Sedan racer`s to move up into mod or 19t....

Nothing seems to had worked in encouraging the stock racer to advance and the sport is about dead as a result....


Look at this though a beginner`s eye`s and the story will be become more clear....
or


a experience racer who races mod ....
I am looking at it through a beginners eyes and we all know that fewer cells won't help with anything. Other avenues to get guys who should be racing 19T or Mod into those classes need to be explored but that's for a different thread. Here it's about the change to 4-5 cell which doesn't address A SINGLE PROBLEM and causes more. It's all been addressed by both sides of the arguement and obviously neither one is budging.
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Old 12-21-2006, 11:52 AM   #1379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Its not the speed .....
Its about

Getting Sedan racer`s to move up into mod or 19t....

Nothing seems to had worked in encouraging the stock racer to advance and the sport is about dead as a result....


Look at this though a beginner`s eye`s and the story will be become more clear....
or


a experience racer who races mod ....

How about the price it takes to get into the hobby as the reason it's dying....

You're never going to get the sponsored guys out of the Spec classes... The money tuning Motors is all made in the Spec classes.... The sponsors need to show that they tune the motors the best... Obviously the sponsored guys aren't buying them.... Just cause Driver A wins using Motor B in mod doesn't mean that the guy who actually pays for his stuff is going to buy a Stock motor tuned by company B....

If TC goes to 4 cell nothing but the best batteries will make it 5 minutes... You think some newbie is going to come down with his abused 6 cell 2400 or 3000mah sport pack, take off 2 cells and make runtime? You're out of your mind....

Although I race I really consider myself a basher with the money for the good stuff.... I represent the guy who likes to run in the street or a parking lot around beer cans.... I see this as the end of my interest in TC's.... I don't like the 4 cell idea one bit....
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Old 12-21-2006, 12:01 PM   #1380
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Default No one Budging

Thus the reason I quit racing Sedan a few year`s ago and run off-road.....

Mod Sedan is a bit insane with the heat issues ...

and sides

only a few will even race Mod Sedan today....

I refuse to race Stock Sedan as I understand the way to heathly race program is not by dominating stock and never moving up....

Its just not my style....
and
no matter, how fast your stock Sedan driver`s feel they are....

I welcome the cell change ...
Today's 6 cell 4200`s R nothing but 7 3000 cells packed into 6 cell`s....

Its well past the time to consider a reduction in cells ...
The dropping of the 7th cell ten years ago did not harm a thing ...

and now

its the same story....
cept maybe a few of you will like to go as fast or even faster as before in the 4 cell or 5 cell Mod program ....

which in hand

would encourage Racer`s like myself to join the fun again....

and
at the same time,open up the stock Class so the beginner can win and have the fun they deserve
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Last edited by Wild Cherry; 12-21-2006 at 12:22 PM.
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