Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
10-18-2006, 02:15 PM
#361
which are made by RPM. . .
John - I'm saying this after helping keep a pan-car class alive for 6 years, recruiting people to race them, and more importantly, KEEPING them running. It was only when an entire group of us left at the same time for other things, that the class died.
Aside from the speed (6C stock being as fast as 6C Mod Sedan) it was the simplicity. . .and it was the simplicity that kept people running. We had an entire table at SoCalRC made up of pan car guys - we'd bring the cars off, blow them off, check the T-Bar, the motor, replace the batteries, sauce the tires, and then kick back and tease the sedan guys in our copious amounts of free time!
We'd be done with our maintenance and checking in 10 minutes. . .
simplicity really is a huge factor for these. . .
John - I'm saying this after helping keep a pan-car class alive for 6 years, recruiting people to race them, and more importantly, KEEPING them running. It was only when an entire group of us left at the same time for other things, that the class died.
Aside from the speed (6C stock being as fast as 6C Mod Sedan) it was the simplicity. . .and it was the simplicity that kept people running. We had an entire table at SoCalRC made up of pan car guys - we'd bring the cars off, blow them off, check the T-Bar, the motor, replace the batteries, sauce the tires, and then kick back and tease the sedan guys in our copious amounts of free time!
We'd be done with our maintenance and checking in 10 minutes. . .simplicity really is a huge factor for these. . .
10-18-2006, 02:33 PM
#363
It surprises me that you guys don't want to make any changes to a class that died for some reason. When you get your National race cancelled because the cars are unstable at speed then its time to make some changes to improve the stability at speed, not to kill the class. I would like to hear some positive comments on how to do this other than leave the cars like they are. The cars are a delight to drive. Have huge run time, don't fry your brushed or brushless stuff. Time to bring the class back with maybe a few changes to improve the car. A bolt on front suspension is no big deal. If you don't like it, bolt on the AE solid block front suspension. It is still available and in stock at CRC. That's the one YYHayyim described that was on his SpeedSpec. Not even camber adjustment.
10-18-2006, 02:33 PM
#364
Originally Posted by Boomer
Aside from the speed (6C stock being as fast as 6C Mod Sedan) it was the simplicity. . .and it was the simplicity that kept people running. We had an entire table at SoCalRC made up of pan car guys - we'd bring the cars off, blow them off, check the T-Bar, the motor, replace the batteries, sauce the tires, and then kick back and tease the sedan guys in our copious amounts of free time! We'd be done with our maintenance and checking in 10 minutes. . .
simplicity really is a huge factor for these. . .
We'd be done with our maintenance and checking in 10 minutes. . .simplicity really is a huge factor for these. . .
Theres something SO much more rewarding about driving a 2wd car over a 4wd car. Its hard to describe. I still feel my most fun at racing was the F103 on carpet, with rubber tires. Even the softest A tires still took time to warm up to perfect temp, so we all learnt how to power drift, or we went to the back lol. Awesome fun. Personally, id like to see big races have 10 pans run on the same schedule, get more people hooked on them, and build the class. Im sold on them, and would sell all my tourers to run one 10 pan
10-18-2006, 02:42 PM
#365
John, it wasn't the speed that killed them it was the new taxi fad... Unlike a Pan Car the TC's could be run anywhere... Now TC's have become a bigger monster than Pan Car ever was...
10-18-2006, 05:37 PM
#367
The real reason pan cars died is MONEY.
The maufacturers run this hobby and they sell a TC kit from 300 to 600 bucks a pan car is what 150 and the parts for the TC (take your pick of company) are very expensive but pan car parts are dirt cheap and they almost never break. So from a business standpoint what would you rather sell? I'd sell TC's and run Pan cars!!
The maufacturers run this hobby and they sell a TC kit from 300 to 600 bucks a pan car is what 150 and the parts for the TC (take your pick of company) are very expensive but pan car parts are dirt cheap and they almost never break. So from a business standpoint what would you rather sell? I'd sell TC's and run Pan cars!!
10-18-2006, 05:39 PM
#368
Thanks for the posts guys. TC has a certain allure. I don't think it's the simplicity. TC is not a good match for the long track I run on, though. If you have a pan car "D-drive" that's where the simplicity and efficiency is. It is also almost bulletproof. I know that you broke one Boomer, but you probably ran it a long time before it broke. Just because I have 4 adjustments available on my front end does not mean I spend a lot of time at the track making adjustments. I spend a lot of time actually running the car on the track. In fact a car will probably come preadjusted or with a recommended setup for asphalt.
John
Darkside- so are you selling a few of those puppies or not.
John
Darkside- so are you selling a few of those puppies or not.
10-18-2006, 06:01 PM
#369
at those angles in the last pictures, the suspension would be regressive rhather than progressive.. are you going to try to do this with existing suspension components or are you going to manufacture your own arms? if you make your own arms, you can simply mold in the shock mount to the lower arm and eliminate several moving parts..... let me see if i can doodle it in some program i may have...
10-18-2006, 06:21 PM
#370
here is a reall poor windows "draw" sketch of what an arm with multiple progressive shock locations could look like without the need for extra bellcranks and rods.. the positions indicated by 1 2 3 and 4 are hypothetical shock mounts in order of their progressiveness. 1 being the least progressive (in fact regressive) and 4 being the most progressive (however since the moment of the arm will be so little, somewhere around 2 is probably the most realistic for our application... the lower arm and part with shock mouning points could be one molded piece..
10-18-2006, 07:39 PM
#371
TallyRC-I'm glad to hear you say shock and progressive suspension in relation to a pan car. Nice design. Here are some differences. Your arm would be a bell crank which could be up to 2 cm tall, the arm is roughly 4 cm long with a mechanical advantage of .5 The 16 lb per inch required at the wheel would require a 32 lb/inch spring.
The drawing I made is progressive, I think, I don't think Martys final drawing indicates the final shape of the bellcrank just its position. This bell crank could have a mechanical advantage of 4 or so with a bell crank 2 cm long and strut pivot at about .5 cm. The spring required would be about 11 lb/inch. The strut would carry a 4 x bigger load than the spring. The shock or spring would be mounted lower. Seems a materials guy could pick between the two. I don't have a preference, but the materials might. This strut type of suspension springing is already used on the MLP cars.
The drawing I made is progressive, I think, I don't think Martys final drawing indicates the final shape of the bellcrank just its position. This bell crank could have a mechanical advantage of 4 or so with a bell crank 2 cm long and strut pivot at about .5 cm. The spring required would be about 11 lb/inch. The strut would carry a 4 x bigger load than the spring. The shock or spring would be mounted lower. Seems a materials guy could pick between the two. I don't have a preference, but the materials might. This strut type of suspension springing is already used on the MLP cars.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-18-2006 at 08:05 PM.
10-18-2006, 09:07 PM
#372
Originally Posted by subman
The real reason pan cars died is MONEY.
The maufacturers run this hobby and they sell a TC kit from 300 to 600 bucks a pan car is what 150 and the parts for the TC (take your pick of company) are very expensive but pan car parts are dirt cheap and they almost never break. So from a business standpoint what would you rather sell? I'd sell TC's and run Pan cars!!
The maufacturers run this hobby and they sell a TC kit from 300 to 600 bucks a pan car is what 150 and the parts for the TC (take your pick of company) are very expensive but pan car parts are dirt cheap and they almost never break. So from a business standpoint what would you rather sell? I'd sell TC's and run Pan cars!!
Now I know what I am doing wrong I am making cars I love and not what people want to toss there Cash at!
10-18-2006, 09:41 PM
#375
Tech Adept
iTrader: (20)
Front suspensions
John
I have been watching the thread with a lot of interest, I love racing pan cars especially oval. As for the front ends they are already a few shocked front ends for the pan cars. They are used on the velodrome cars. The pictures are on Hobby talk. Here are the links. Some of the photo quality is not very good. I hope this gives you a couple of ideas.
Steve
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...0&page=2&pp=15
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=118351
I have been watching the thread with a lot of interest, I love racing pan cars especially oval. As for the front ends they are already a few shocked front ends for the pan cars. They are used on the velodrome cars. The pictures are on Hobby talk. Here are the links. Some of the photo quality is not very good. I hope this gives you a couple of ideas.
Steve
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...0&page=2&pp=15
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=118351