R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-18-2006, 03:15 PM   #361
Tech Elite
 
Boomer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Southern Cal - Claremont
Posts: 3,346
Send a message via ICQ to Boomer Send a message via AIM to Boomer
Default

which are made by RPM. . .


John - I'm saying this after helping keep a pan-car class alive for 6 years, recruiting people to race them, and more importantly, KEEPING them running. It was only when an entire group of us left at the same time for other things, that the class died.

Aside from the speed (6C stock being as fast as 6C Mod Sedan) it was the simplicity. . .and it was the simplicity that kept people running. We had an entire table at SoCalRC made up of pan car guys - we'd bring the cars off, blow them off, check the T-Bar, the motor, replace the batteries, sauce the tires, and then kick back and tease the sedan guys in our copious amounts of free time! We'd be done with our maintenance and checking in 10 minutes. . .

simplicity really is a huge factor for these. . .
__________________
-
RC10L2.5W - RC12.4 - RCNTC3(bmi) - TC4 (modded) - B44.2 - plus rent-a-rides! :D
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 03:16 PM   #362
Tech Master
 
Marty Peterson's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,777
Default

This is what I want to do ok both upper and lower arms move not fixed. and use something like the AE - RPM and IRS but for both arms.
__________________
Here for the fun of it!

Selling HPI F10 Front Knuckles and Complete Rear Axles W/Diffs Ball and Gear.
W/12mm TC Hubs & W/14mm F1 Hubs Good for std bearing Pans cars. STD Bearings!
eBay item number: 200947192161,200947193175,200947187493

Last edited by Marty Peterson; 08-03-2008 at 01:44 PM.
Marty Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 03:33 PM   #363
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

It surprises me that you guys don't want to make any changes to a class that died for some reason. When you get your National race cancelled because the cars are unstable at speed then its time to make some changes to improve the stability at speed, not to kill the class. I would like to hear some positive comments on how to do this other than leave the cars like they are. The cars are a delight to drive. Have huge run time, don't fry your brushed or brushless stuff. Time to bring the class back with maybe a few changes to improve the car. A bolt on front suspension is no big deal. If you don't like it, bolt on the AE solid block front suspension. It is still available and in stock at CRC. That's the one YYHayyim described that was on his SpeedSpec. Not even camber adjustment.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 03:33 PM   #364
Tech Elite
 
axle182's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,784
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to axle182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer
Aside from the speed (6C stock being as fast as 6C Mod Sedan) it was the simplicity. . .and it was the simplicity that kept people running. We had an entire table at SoCalRC made up of pan car guys - we'd bring the cars off, blow them off, check the T-Bar, the motor, replace the batteries, sauce the tires, and then kick back and tease the sedan guys in our copious amounts of free time! We'd be done with our maintenance and checking in 10 minutes. . .

simplicity really is a huge factor for these. . .
The speed attracted me to the 10 pans, but the simplicity has kept me coming back for more. Ive always run 10 pan as a second or third class at a big race meet, and the maintenance is exactly what you just described. Only that id retension the ball diff after every run with a brushless on carpet lol. I ended up running the alloy cone back to front, and running a locked diff. add a little tire sauce, change the pack, give it a little dusting and its ready for round 2-3-4-5 etc. about the only thing i want to make for mine, is indestructable wings to protect the rear axle. On tight carpet tracks, im often using all of the track and then some to get good speed. I broke a tbar on the last lap, just as i crossed the finish line in the A main Theres something SO much more rewarding about driving a 2wd car over a 4wd car. Its hard to describe. I still feel my most fun at racing was the F103 on carpet, with rubber tires. Even the softest A tires still took time to warm up to perfect temp, so we all learnt how to power drift, or we went to the back lol. Awesome fun. Personally, id like to see big races have 10 pans run on the same schedule, get more people hooked on them, and build the class. Im sold on them, and would sell all my tourers to run one 10 pan
__________________
Aaron "AJ" Freind
axle182 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 03:42 PM   #365
Tech Elite
 
vtl1180ny's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wrong Island
Posts: 4,963
Default

John, it wasn't the speed that killed them it was the new taxi fad... Unlike a Pan Car the TC's could be run anywhere... Now TC's have become a bigger monster than Pan Car ever was...
__________________
I still lurk....
vtl1180ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 06:24 PM   #366
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado, Above The Rest
Posts: 992
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Peterson
AE 10L40 off of there web.
They are both made by IRS. Associated purchases them to include in their kits.
__________________
Team BSR
Team Power Push
Protoform Race Bodies
KSKT Racing - #1 in SK Racing Chassis
Darkside Motorsports - "WE ARE WHAT'S NEXT." - www.darksidems.com
THE DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 06:37 PM   #367
Tech Master
 
subman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Edmonton,Canada
Posts: 1,237
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

The real reason pan cars died is MONEY.
The maufacturers run this hobby and they sell a TC kit from 300 to 600 bucks a pan car is what 150 and the parts for the TC (take your pick of company) are very expensive but pan car parts are dirt cheap and they almost never break. So from a business standpoint what would you rather sell? I'd sell TC's and run Pan cars!!
subman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 06:39 PM   #368
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

Thanks for the posts guys. TC has a certain allure. I don't think it's the simplicity. TC is not a good match for the long track I run on, though. If you have a pan car "D-drive" that's where the simplicity and efficiency is. It is also almost bulletproof. I know that you broke one Boomer, but you probably ran it a long time before it broke. Just because I have 4 adjustments available on my front end does not mean I spend a lot of time at the track making adjustments. I spend a lot of time actually running the car on the track. In fact a car will probably come preadjusted or with a recommended setup for asphalt.
John

Darkside- so are you selling a few of those puppies or not.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 07:01 PM   #369
Tech Elite
 
tallyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: palm city, fl
Posts: 2,594
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

at those angles in the last pictures, the suspension would be regressive rhather than progressive.. are you going to try to do this with existing suspension components or are you going to manufacture your own arms? if you make your own arms, you can simply mold in the shock mount to the lower arm and eliminate several moving parts..... let me see if i can doodle it in some program i may have...
__________________
WWW.STORMERHOBBIES.COM helping keep pan cars alive!

Turns out not where, but who your with that really matters... DMB
tallyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 07:21 PM   #370
Tech Elite
 
tallyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: palm city, fl
Posts: 2,594
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

here is a reall poor windows "draw" sketch of what an arm with multiple progressive shock locations could look like without the need for extra bellcranks and rods.. the positions indicated by 1 2 3 and 4 are hypothetical shock mounts in order of their progressiveness. 1 being the least progressive (in fact regressive) and 4 being the most progressive (however since the moment of the arm will be so little, somewhere around 2 is probably the most realistic for our application... the lower arm and part with shock mouning points could be one molded piece..
__________________
WWW.STORMERHOBBIES.COM helping keep pan cars alive!

Turns out not where, but who your with that really matters... DMB
tallyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 08:39 PM   #371
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,777
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John Stranahan
Default

TallyRC-I'm glad to hear you say shock and progressive suspension in relation to a pan car. Nice design. Here are some differences. Your arm would be a bell crank which could be up to 2 cm tall, the arm is roughly 4 cm long with a mechanical advantage of .5 The 16 lb per inch required at the wheel would require a 32 lb/inch spring.

The drawing I made is progressive, I think, I don't think Martys final drawing indicates the final shape of the bellcrank just its position. This bell crank could have a mechanical advantage of 4 or so with a bell crank 2 cm long and strut pivot at about .5 cm. The spring required would be about 11 lb/inch. The strut would carry a 4 x bigger load than the spring. The shock or spring would be mounted lower. Seems a materials guy could pick between the two. I don't have a preference, but the materials might. This strut type of suspension springing is already used on the MLP cars.

Last edited by John Stranahan; 10-18-2006 at 09:05 PM.
John Stranahan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 10:07 PM   #372
Tech Master
 
Marty Peterson's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subman
The real reason pan cars died is MONEY.
The maufacturers run this hobby and they sell a TC kit from 300 to 600 bucks a pan car is what 150 and the parts for the TC (take your pick of company) are very expensive but pan car parts are dirt cheap and they almost never break. So from a business standpoint what would you rather sell? I'd sell TC's and run Pan cars!!

Now I know what I am doing wrong I am making cars I love and not what people want to toss there Cash at!
__________________
Here for the fun of it!

Selling HPI F10 Front Knuckles and Complete Rear Axles W/Diffs Ball and Gear.
W/12mm TC Hubs & W/14mm F1 Hubs Good for std bearing Pans cars. STD Bearings!
eBay item number: 200947192161,200947193175,200947187493
Marty Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 10:09 PM   #373
Tech Master
 
Marty Peterson's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,777
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE DARKSIDE
They are both made by IRS. Associated purchases them to include in their kits.
Thanks Oh I must say I love the way your car looks!

I wish you all the best!!!!!!!
__________________
Here for the fun of it!

Selling HPI F10 Front Knuckles and Complete Rear Axles W/Diffs Ball and Gear.
W/12mm TC Hubs & W/14mm F1 Hubs Good for std bearing Pans cars. STD Bearings!
eBay item number: 200947192161,200947193175,200947187493
Marty Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 10:34 PM   #374
Moderator
 
Pro ten Holland's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Druten/Holland (Europe)
Posts: 1,677
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Marty,
If you'de like, I can send you my CAD drawings of the new design I'm working on (the one I posted a screenshot of).
Pro ten Holland
__________________
http://www.rc-lemans.de/
Pro ten Holland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2006, 10:41 PM   #375
SKJ
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: OC SoCal
Posts: 179
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default Front suspensions

John
I have been watching the thread with a lot of interest, I love racing pan cars especially oval. As for the front ends they are already a few shocked front ends for the pan cars. They are used on the velodrome cars. The pictures are on Hobby talk. Here are the links. Some of the photo quality is not very good. I hope this gives you a couple of ideas.

Steve


http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showth...0&page=2&pp=15
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=118351
SKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Associated Factory Team TC5, Brushless, LiPo, Li-ion Nanophosphate, Tips and Tricks John Stranahan Electric On-Road 839 11-01-2011 04:31 PM
Xray T2R, 2100 mah 2c LiPo, and Mabuchi power: Tech tips and Tricks gacjr0 Electric On-Road 46 11-18-2007 10:09 AM
tips and tricks XXX-NT streetstock Electric Off-Road 2 05-13-2005 10:50 AM
Tips & Tricks Steevo Electric On-Road 54 08-08-2003 10:09 PM
Tips And Tricks rctc3 Electric On-Road 36 03-10-2002 10:54 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:15 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net