IFMAR AGM in Collegno - Future of ISTC
07-17-2006, 02:19 PM
#511
Originally Posted by nagatahawk
I really do not appreciate to tonallity of your comments above
I was sharing my experience with 4 cell oval and 6 cell on road. I was sharing my experience, and when you tell me not to say I totally disagree with your comments. and you are a hater. you are an ass.
Maybe I wasn't being very clear, I did not say that oval was the same as on road. I race both and was merely sharing what the differences were to me.
You have a as much right to disagree with what I have to say as I disagree with you.
I was sharing my experience with 4 cell oval and 6 cell on road. I was sharing my experience, and when you tell me not to say I totally disagree with your comments. and you are a hater. you are an ass.
Maybe I wasn't being very clear, I did not say that oval was the same as on road. I race both and was merely sharing what the differences were to me.
You have a as much right to disagree with what I have to say as I disagree with you.
Now pick you prize! Door 1 or Door 2, Or you can go with whats behind door 3!
07-17-2006, 02:26 PM
#512
Originally Posted by nagatahawk
not only are you an ass, your an idiot.
07-17-2006, 05:08 PM
#513
i still don't understand why switching to a harder spec tire like 32's or 36's is not an option? instead of 3 or 4 g's in the corners you'd actually have to lift a little and modulate the throttle a little comming out of the bender... voila! everyone gets to keep their power and speed they just have to learn to handle it and the speedos get far less abused... oh yea and the tires last longer... anybody? isn't that more like driving anyhow? anybody?
07-17-2006, 05:29 PM
#514
Originally Posted by tallyrc
i still don't understand why switching to a harder spec tire like 32's or 36's is not an option? instead of 3 or 4 g's in the corners you'd actually have to lift a little and modulate the throttle a little comming out of the bender... voila! everyone gets to keep their power and speed they just have to learn to handle it and the speedos get far less abused... oh yea and the tires last longer... anybody? isn't that more like driving anyhow? anybody?
The Reedy races used to be on Proline H13's. Those tires had a lot less traction than we have now. The pros when to extreme lengths cutting and shaping inster to make then driveable...it was a nightmare. The privateers were in the weeds.
Because the H13 was the first spec tire at the time the Florida State Series started using them. It was miserable. The novices stopped coming to races, everyone complained. Car setup and tire prep was critical. This went on for 2 years. They switched to a more modern belted tire and never looked back. Racing was fun again because you didnt have to be a setup master just to get around the track. Racing was also closer as the better tires were more forgiving and had a bigger setup sweet spot letting more people go faster.
07-17-2006, 05:48 PM
#515
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Becuase its not fun. Because harder tires increase the gap between the guys with setup skill and those who don't. Because cars with less grip are easier to upset and cause more racing incidents.
The Reedy races used to be on Proline H13's. Those tires had a lot less traction than we have now. The pros when to extreme lengths cutting and shaping inster to make then driveable...it was a nightmare. The privateers were in the weeds.
Because the H13 was the first spec tire at the time the Florida State Series started using them. It was miserable. The novices stopped coming to races, everyone complained. Car setup and tire prep was critical. This went on for 2 years. They switched to a more modern belted tire and never looked back. Racing was fun again because you didnt have to be a setup master just to get around the track. Racing was also closer as the better tires were more forgiving and had a bigger setup sweet spot letting more people go faster.
The Reedy races used to be on Proline H13's. Those tires had a lot less traction than we have now. The pros when to extreme lengths cutting and shaping inster to make then driveable...it was a nightmare. The privateers were in the weeds.
Because the H13 was the first spec tire at the time the Florida State Series started using them. It was miserable. The novices stopped coming to races, everyone complained. Car setup and tire prep was critical. This went on for 2 years. They switched to a more modern belted tire and never looked back. Racing was fun again because you didnt have to be a setup master just to get around the track. Racing was also closer as the better tires were more forgiving and had a bigger setup sweet spot letting more people go faster.
Guys you DONT! want to deal with a harder tire trust Adrian and me on that.
It was a nightmare playing with inserts ex. airgap, tape, grinding, and cutting! You dont want that!
07-17-2006, 06:19 PM
#516
Originally Posted by ErnieP
When people complain about the cost of touring cars....these are the same people who are buying Xray and Tamiya cars.......yes they run really well and are engineered incredibly.....but do you think they were selling as many touring cars as Associated was a few years back....NO WAY!
So the better mouse-trap that everyone is always asking for was supplied by X-ray and Tamiya....as well as the $1,000 bill that came with it. End Result....better cars but with a shorter line or pool of people to buy these cars!
So the better mouse-trap that everyone is always asking for was supplied by X-ray and Tamiya....as well as the $1,000 bill that came with it. End Result....better cars but with a shorter line or pool of people to buy these cars!
I could not resist as an owner of a TC3, FTTC4 and FK05. Yes, everyone wants the latest and greatest. But if you can not supply parts what good is a better mousetrap. I have heard several stories of guys breaking parts on thier cars and the deliveryman did not make it in time to fix the car before the next race.
BTW, Mr. Ernie P. is right about his comments for a good car for newbies. I have to give him kudos for his efforts - Street Spec and T-Spec. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Oh, have you heard the one about the guy who wanted the top manufacturers to freeze engine technology and have the more competitive teams contribute to a fund to help the less competitive engine get better. Engines, that is F1 not R/C racing. Oh, those wonder international governing bodies.
07-17-2006, 06:25 PM
#517
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Becuase its not fun. Because harder tires increase the gap between the guys with setup skill and those who don't. Because cars with less grip are easier to upset and cause more racing incidents.
The Reedy races used to be on Proline H13's. Those tires had a lot less traction than we have now. The pros when to extreme lengths cutting and shaping inster to make then driveable...it was a nightmare. The privateers were in the weeds.
Because the H13 was the first spec tire at the time the Florida State Series started using them. It was miserable. The novices stopped coming to races, everyone complained. Car setup and tire prep was critical. This went on for 2 years. They switched to a more modern belted tire and never looked back. Racing was fun again because you didnt have to be a setup master just to get around the track. Racing was also closer as the better tires were more forgiving and had a bigger setup sweet spot letting more people go faster.
The Reedy races used to be on Proline H13's. Those tires had a lot less traction than we have now. The pros when to extreme lengths cutting and shaping inster to make then driveable...it was a nightmare. The privateers were in the weeds.
Because the H13 was the first spec tire at the time the Florida State Series started using them. It was miserable. The novices stopped coming to races, everyone complained. Car setup and tire prep was critical. This went on for 2 years. They switched to a more modern belted tire and never looked back. Racing was fun again because you didnt have to be a setup master just to get around the track. Racing was also closer as the better tires were more forgiving and had a bigger setup sweet spot letting more people go faster.
07-17-2006, 06:30 PM
#518
i think we can all agree that the cars have become way too over engineered and expensive, the problem is if a good enough driver has a better car, it does come in to play.. we can't go backwards and all jsut agree to use less expensive cars... like for those horrible years i drove the associated b2's and b3's and rookies with losi's were dogging me... that is a killer... 
07-17-2006, 06:37 PM
#519
Originally Posted by tallyrc
we're not talking about h13's here. cs32's have 3 times the grip of the h13's.. insert shaping is a thing of the past and they are hardly going to send anybody home because their car was undrivable....heck, in many places the cs32's are faster than the cs27's becasue of the heat...
07-17-2006, 06:48 PM
#520
Originally Posted by tallyrc
i still don't understand why switching to a harder spec tire like 32's or 36's is not an option? instead of 3 or 4 g's in the corners you'd actually have to lift a little and modulate the throttle a little comming out of the bender... voila! everyone gets to keep their power and speed they just have to learn to handle it and the speedos get far less abused... oh yea and the tires last longer... anybody? isn't that more like driving anyhow? anybody?
Because not everyone in the world races on Rubber tires. It just so happens that here in New Zealand foam tires suit our circumstances and lesser budgets better.
07-17-2006, 06:54 PM
#521
Originally Posted by AdrianM
I know H13's were an extreme example but less grippy tires are always an advantage to racers with setup skill and are a disadvantage to novices.
07-17-2006, 07:03 PM
#522
4cells modify is NOT 100% slower than 6cells modify. It's very very track depend. If your track is 10~12sec, tons of corner with no straight line, I doubt 4cells modify would be slower than 6cells modify, especially when you put a 4T 5T motor into system.
I don't think you can do 4T 5T motor with 6cells, unless you live in someplace which is freeze like arctic to cool down motor/ESC.
So you probably will get the same laptime, but less part wear and better drivability due to less weight.
I don't think you can do 4T 5T motor with 6cells, unless you live in someplace which is freeze like arctic to cool down motor/ESC.
So you probably will get the same laptime, but less part wear and better drivability due to less weight.
07-17-2006, 07:10 PM
#523
Originally Posted by tallyrc
i certainly don't dissagree with what you are saying, but is it any different than the advantage people will have if they have motor tuning skills battery sponsors and motor sponsors which come further into play by placing a new premium on speed by reducing voltage? i thought the point of this discussion was reducing stress on electronics, not stress on rookies...
I had hard time once when I bring wrong tire to carpet track (36 sorex on carpet, lol). I'm not only go very slow (never been that slow before), but very very hard to drive, not good experience and surely no fun.
Slower due to less power only makes you want more power. But slower due to less drivability will make you quit the hobby.
07-17-2006, 07:12 PM
#524
hence my problem with going to 4 cell TTSO
the use of 4turn and 5 turn motors! that is rediculous, and surely we will face the same problems we have now..thrown winds due to excessive RPM, arms going out of balance, and heat due to excessive current draw.
reduce the cells, and racers will use more powerfull motors, and were back to a runtime war...
for the first time we have excess runtime, and were looking for ways to take it back to the old ways of spending fortunes on batteries for those last few seconds of runtime...
the use of 4turn and 5 turn motors! that is rediculous, and surely we will face the same problems we have now..thrown winds due to excessive RPM, arms going out of balance, and heat due to excessive current draw.
reduce the cells, and racers will use more powerfull motors, and were back to a runtime war...
for the first time we have excess runtime, and were looking for ways to take it back to the old ways of spending fortunes on batteries for those last few seconds of runtime...
07-17-2006, 07:21 PM
#525
I`m tellin yeah ...
2w sedan = goal
2w sedan = goal