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Old 03-15-2007, 01:15 PM   #391
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Carl, go to ANY big race with the pits in one room.....there is people dremeling carbon fiber based parts on an hourly basis....I see this like mad at even small local events or even club races....

And while there are ways to minimize exposure to CF dust....its never used....WHO here can say they have ever seen someone with a mask at the track sanding a chassis? Wet sanding, also works well at cutting down the amount going airborne, but again....please raise your hand if you have ever seen it done at the track?

CF dust is like second hand smoke.....sitting in your pits dremling the slots on your new AE touring car is actually effecting everyone around. CF dust is EXTREMELY light in weight, so it becomes airborne very easily over great distances....

And like duckman said, once in there.....its there for a while...

Motor spray is a MUCH easier thing to change......hey guys look, this stuff works just as good, is the same price, and is safer....

Traction compound is whole different animal, because its something that actually gives a competitive advantge unlike motor spray, which is really nothing more than conveint, as you can do AS good of job with soap and warm water if it was accessible....racers are not going to want to give this up......and some will go as far as cheating....some of which will be easy to tech, while others will go undetectable....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:26 PM   #392
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I like this topic and personally am not a fan of tire additives both from a health stand point and a belief it takes away from the sportsmanship of our hobby (I know sportsmanship what's that?)

I also want to provide some info as it has come up from time to time on this thread but I have not seen it answered (forgive me if I missed it) the (This product contains chemicals known to cause cancer in the state of Cali...) warning on many of our hobby's product is due to solder and the lead which is is prmarily made up of. Anything with a wire, pcb board, or tab has solder and lead is some seriousely messed up stuff. For those who do a lot of soldering I cannot stress how important it is to do it in a well ventilated area and even then you may want to use a mask or even pull your shirt over your nose. I have met in the last several years two different electronics engineers whom have had accute lead poisoning due to use of solder greatly diminish their daily lives. One gentlemen in particular was going through therapy in which he had to wear super high power magnets against his skind near major surface arteries to "pool the lead in his blood stream" so it could be extracted as he was having both cardio vascular and nervous system issues because of lead poisioning from his jobs constant need to solder.

I have even seen guys hold the solder in their mouths while soldering!!!

I think Martin has some really valid points and though we may not have his sensative skin it has acted as an early warning system to us all and we should take advantage of this.

Just like smoking I think it is your right to polute your body the way you see fit but that does not give you the right to polute others.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:27 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyv
None of this takes away our personal responsibility. But let me ask you this. Knowing that Martin's health problems have progressed as far as they have, are you planning on continuing racing using all these chemicals and materials (foam tyres, brake/motor cleaners, tyre additives/cleaners, solder, paints, etc.)? Especially given that the guys you are racing against are? It may be silly, but that's what most people do. Whether or not they are right to think that "it won't happen to them" I don't know. It appears that neither does anyone else. To know that at the very least we need the support of the manufacturors to tell us what "stuff" they use in their products and information one what that "stuff" can do to us both short term and with prolonged use in high dosages. I won't even consider the combination of all this "stuff" and what that does to us at this point...
I race outdoors asphalt TC, and I always wear gloves when working with chemicals and make certain that I am in a well ventalated area. I also use alternative products instead of the traditional motor sprays for cleaning, To get grip for my tires I use tire warmers, Simple Green and sometimes Tire Tweek. I use solderless connectors on my battery packs, and I buy pre-made battery packs to reduce soldering, when I am not able to use my Lipo's. I use low maintence motors such as Brushless to practice with and the Checkpoint 19T to race with to cut down on motor maintence and the cleaning needed. What I know is that I am responsible for my own safety, if I choose to ignore the dangers associated with these products, then thats my problem and I have no one else to blame, but I will not have a bunch of knuckleheads try to convience me that it is ok to use these products because there is no proof they are dangerous to your health, my parents did not raise a fool. As far as being at the track and being around others who might use some of these products more freely, I just position myself up-wind under my own canopy. I enjoy racing, I do it on a limited schedule and when I am at the track I just make sure I am limiting my exposure as best I can. It's just common sense.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:38 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO

Traction compound is whole different animal, because its something that actually gives a competitive advantge ....racers are not going to want to give this up......and some will go as far as cheating....some of which will be easy to tech, while others will go undetectable....

Later EddieO
HI Eddie

A competetive advantage is only that when no-one else uses it. At the moment everyone uses it therefore there is no advantage to using it.
Get rid of it and you still have a level playing field. At the moment all sauce does is allow your TC to lap at unrealistically high speeds ,somewhat like slotcars in fact.

As for cheating, electronic sniffers will detect chemicals on anything.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:49 PM   #395
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The sniffers are not fool proof....

As for the advantage.....even if you put everyone at the same compound or no compound, then you get the room for the cheaters.....and also the guys who are simply better drivers or better at setup (not that I think them having a leg up is bad) will rise to the top....and the guy who got more out paragon by it helping his car act like a slot car, thus overcoming is lesser driving/setup skill, is going to complain......and there is your competitive advantage....

And we are still not even counting, life is so much easier with traction.....makes a weekend much less frustrating for even the best drivers or mechanics.....

As with all things spec, they never truely end up spec.....spec motors aren't the same, spec tires aren't same, nothing is....someone always finds a leg up or maybe just gets lucky......control sauce is no different.

Later EddieO
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:59 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckman996
Carl - which one do you use from this list? The citrus cleaner works amazing for cleaning grime from bike chains.

Lately, rather then spraying motor cleaner at the track, I have been using q-tips dipped into mineral spirits and cleaning my motors that way. Seems to be as effective and I don't have to worry about contaminating the air as much.
I use the following...

http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/speed-clean.htm

Description of the Product:::

Speed Degreaser (Speed Clean™)
A super duty cleaner formulated using the very latest of two impressive advances in cleaning chemistry. Baby does this stuff melt the crap away! Strips the ugliest of stuff right off, including the toughest of brake rotor surface grime.

Speed Degreaser dries fast and complete - there's no oily residue left behind - it melts and rinses contaminants right off, and poof..., what's left of Speed Degreaser evaporates away - and because Speed Degreaser also displaces water, you're left with a squeaky clean, residue free dry surface!

Completely Federally-VOC / California Air Regulatory Board Compliant, (plus of course safe on the user and environment). Available in a big 17oz ozone-safe aerosol. MSRP: 11.99

I like this product as it does not damage rubber o-rings etc.

Also:

http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/bike-wash.htm

Super Bike Wash™ “Squirt On, Hose Off”
Easy & Fast Clean Up! Super Bike Wash™ will quickly clean dirt, clay, road grime and chain soils off your bike with little to no scrubbing. Five different cleaning agents work together to create a high speed cleaning system.

Two different rust and oxidation inhibitors protect metal surfaces and prevent flash rusting. Super Bike Wash™ is a complex bio-cleaning compound. It is not a soap or detergent and it does not contain chlorinated solvents, phosphates, benzenes, or napthas, which can damage bicycle components and/or the environment. Safe for all surfaces of a bike. Great for ATV’s, motocross, boats, and more! 1 liter Spray Bottle • 1 gallon or 5 gallon Jug •

I use this product when cleaning plastic parts, chassis components etc...


To your second point, I've eliminated the use of motor spray...i use both products above exclusively and usually spray both solutions onto a rag first,

For cleaning electric motors, I've been using an air compressor and just re-lubing. After cutting a comm, I use denatured alcohol, sprayed on a rag to remove the cutting oil. I've been cautious to reduce any unnecessary spraying to minimize the mist in the air around me.

Problem is some others around you are not as cautious or they do not understand the dangers...(I wish someone warned me 15 years) The last fuel on-road event I attended I watched two teenage newbees share at least 6 cans of HPI "chassis cleaner" to clean-off their cars. No gloves, no protective clothing...what's funny is when I warned them about the substance, they looked at me like "shut-up old man"..."yeah yeah, that won't happen to us"....must be nice to be young again.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:48 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loopedeloop
HI Eddie

A competetive advantage is only that when no-one else uses it. At the moment everyone uses it therefore there is no advantage to using it.
Get rid of it and you still have a level playing field. At the moment all sauce does is allow your TC to lap at unrealistically high speeds ,somewhat like slotcars in fact.

As for cheating, electronic sniffers will detect chemicals on anything.

You got it!!
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:53 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
The sniffers are not fool proof....

As for the advantage.....even if you put everyone at the same compound or no compound, then you get the room for the cheaters.....and also the guys who are simply better drivers or better at setup (not that I think them having a leg up is bad) will rise to the top....and the guy who got more out paragon by it helping his car act like a slot car, thus overcoming is lesser driving/setup skill, is going to complain......and there is your competitive advantage....

And we are still not even counting, life is so much easier with traction.....makes a weekend much less frustrating for even the best drivers or mechanics.....

As with all things spec, they never truely end up spec.....spec motors aren't the same, spec tires aren't same, nothing is....someone always finds a leg up or maybe just gets lucky......control sauce is no different.

Later EddieO
So in the intrest of health and safety and the greater good of not allowing compound.............. screw it!

Its simply amazing how there is absolutly no way to live without it.

Tire warmers would not be a healthier alternative? Maybe not as great as compound but an alternative..

Why do the tire makers get to produce tires that dont grip and force us to use additives?

If no one is allowed to use it then we are all on an equal playing field...
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:58 PM   #399
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How much do the chemical sniffers cost? Who is going to buy them? Who is going to calibrate and tech them?

What about doping compounds to mask the banned chemicals?

I know ROAR looked at banning strong scented traction compounds last year. The word got out about it and the Carpet Oval and Carpet On Road racers forced ROAR to scrap the idea.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:59 PM   #400
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JL..^^^^ My thoughts exactly

And the fact is...... no matter what conditions/restrictions you place on racers, the cream will always rise to the top
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:28 PM   #401
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With tire truers and such spewing up dust - makes you wonder how many chemicals from the traction compound are still attached within that dust - and how much of it gets into a person's lungs. We all know that dust in the lungs causes problems as it is - but what chemicals are also being deposited in the lungs thanks to tire dust?
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:11 PM   #402
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I was experimenting with some sunscreen lotion on my tires, although I have not had an opportunity to track test it, it absolutely softens the tires and adds grip, I am going to track test it this weekend.
The sunscreen contains Wax, as well as extracted castor oil.

I will give feedback to my findings.

Thanks
Grant
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:13 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insuranceguy
I was experimenting with some sunscreen lotion on my tires, although I have not had an opportunity to track test it, it absolutely softens the tires and adds grip, I am going to track test it this weekend.
The sunscreen contains Wax, as well as extracted caster oil.

I will give feedback to my findings.

Thanks
Grant
we did this years ago (man i am getting old)
and it works ok.
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:43 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insuranceguy
I was experimenting with some sunscreen lotion on my tires, although I have not had an opportunity to track test it, it absolutely softens the tires and adds grip, I am going to track test it this weekend.
The sunscreen contains Wax, as well as extracted castor oil.

I will give feedback to my findings.

Thanks
Grant
Grant - just make sure you wipe the tires well or it will be a little slimy for the first few laps. We used to do that back in the PLRC days for nitro foam tires and it worked great. Never tried it inside - be interested to see the outcome.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:51 PM   #405
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It would be interesting to see how banning traction compounds would affect a big hotel race (IIC, Birds, Indoor Champs) were they lay new carpet before the event. The first year at the IIC the first practice day on the new carpet was "drift" day... no bite at all... it took all day to get any bite and that was with compound. I cant imagine how long it would take... if ever... before you could actually race a mod car on new carpet at one of these events without traction compound.
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