1LikesTraction Compounds : Health Risks : what can we do about this?
03-13-2007, 04:49 AM
#271
The only way to get this problem fixed is from the Track level... Tracks have to ban it.
Tracks that dont will end up gettting pressure from racers of other non-paragon tracks.
IT would not hurt for the top 20 pro drivers to make a stand. But of course the pay check is on the line, but we are talking about a small group of chemicalls that monopolize carpet racing... Should not be hard to put pressure on them.
ROAR is a joke for not adressing the health risk,
Tracks that dont will end up gettting pressure from racers of other non-paragon tracks.
IT would not hurt for the top 20 pro drivers to make a stand. But of course the pay check is on the line, but we are talking about a small group of chemicalls that monopolize carpet racing... Should not be hard to put pressure on them.
ROAR is a joke for not adressing the health risk,
03-13-2007, 05:15 AM
#272
After being out of racing for 7 years (I started in '88), I went back to carpet racing, this time, bringing my son with me. Because of the "mom" factor, I generally keep him away from the sauces... And, since starting in '88, I've used Paragon (the good ole black-can stuff). A few nights where my son and I raced, particularly on nights where we ran a lot of runs, I'd wake up in the morning hung over (the common "paragon hangover" we all have gotten at big races). A few times, though, I woke up in the middle of the night with a HUGE headache. I've attributed it to absorbing the compound through the skin, as I've pitted with guys using Paragon all night, and/or in a track where Paragon reaks throughout.
So, I've been forced to switch sauces, regrettably, as I'm not sure anything works like good ole Paragon. Niftech is ok, Jack the Gripper is good after a few laps, as is Racer's Choice... If you do some research on methyl acetate (oil of wintergreen) on the medical sites, they talk about "contact overdose" which includes symptoms discussed here.
Only thing I'd ask is that the idiots and keyboard bullies keep their mouth shut on this thread. Let this one thread be an informative one, for a change. No adolescent comments are needed here. We have a quality racer having to leave a hobby he loves due to health reasons- good luck to ya, guy....
So, I've been forced to switch sauces, regrettably, as I'm not sure anything works like good ole Paragon. Niftech is ok, Jack the Gripper is good after a few laps, as is Racer's Choice... If you do some research on methyl acetate (oil of wintergreen) on the medical sites, they talk about "contact overdose" which includes symptoms discussed here.
Only thing I'd ask is that the idiots and keyboard bullies keep their mouth shut on this thread. Let this one thread be an informative one, for a change. No adolescent comments are needed here. We have a quality racer having to leave a hobby he loves due to health reasons- good luck to ya, guy....
03-13-2007, 05:22 AM
#273
Tech Fanatic
Thread Starter
imprsme
If you think I would give up racing because of a headache, then you don't know me at all. To tell me to "get real" is incredibly insulting, and especially irritating from a person who won't even use their real name on a forum.
Last night I had someone drop by my house to pick up some of my stuff I sold to him. To get the transponder I sold him, I opened up the box my tamiya car was in, which had the foam tires and paragon still on them. In the couple of mins it took for me to take the tires off the car and put them in a zip-lock bag I felt the effects of the paragon. I did not feel any affects from the other items in the room, which I had been in most of the evening sorting through the things I am going to sell. I did not feel the effects until I took the car out of the box and the affects were strong and immediate. I agree that all these chemicals are bad, but for me nothing and I mean nothing impacts me like paragon does. Niftech and Jack the Gripper do also affect me just not as quickly or badly as paragon. So your argument about it being the other products for me although can't be dismissed, I can tell you with great certainty that paragon is by far the worst offender for me. Different people will react differently. Some people seem to be more affected by Jack the Gripper according to the folks that I have talked to.
Yes I have a higher sensitivity than most for these chemicals, but lets be clear, this was not always the case. I raced with paragon for the first 3 years of my 8 years of racing and had no major health issues. It was not until the last 3 years that I started feeling more serious effects. If you look through this thread the symptoms I get are listed as symptoms from at least the known chemicals in paragon through over exposure. So I think it is more than reasonable to assert that I would not be sensitive to these chemicals if I did not have such a high level of exposure over the years.
My point is that it is entirely possible and likely that these chemicals are the reason I am such a high level of sensitivity now.
Based on your posts I guess I need to die before you feel there is an issue here...but then again, you would also probably say that I was just overly sensitive, and unique to me. wake up.
I am sorry this post is not as restrained as my normal posts, but I am extremely pissed that I need to give up this hobby and for someone to tell me to "get real" is just ridiculous.
Thanks to those that do understand what it means to me to give this up.
If you think I would give up racing because of a headache, then you don't know me at all. To tell me to "get real" is incredibly insulting, and especially irritating from a person who won't even use their real name on a forum.
Last night I had someone drop by my house to pick up some of my stuff I sold to him. To get the transponder I sold him, I opened up the box my tamiya car was in, which had the foam tires and paragon still on them. In the couple of mins it took for me to take the tires off the car and put them in a zip-lock bag I felt the effects of the paragon. I did not feel any affects from the other items in the room, which I had been in most of the evening sorting through the things I am going to sell. I did not feel the effects until I took the car out of the box and the affects were strong and immediate. I agree that all these chemicals are bad, but for me nothing and I mean nothing impacts me like paragon does. Niftech and Jack the Gripper do also affect me just not as quickly or badly as paragon. So your argument about it being the other products for me although can't be dismissed, I can tell you with great certainty that paragon is by far the worst offender for me. Different people will react differently. Some people seem to be more affected by Jack the Gripper according to the folks that I have talked to.
Yes I have a higher sensitivity than most for these chemicals, but lets be clear, this was not always the case. I raced with paragon for the first 3 years of my 8 years of racing and had no major health issues. It was not until the last 3 years that I started feeling more serious effects. If you look through this thread the symptoms I get are listed as symptoms from at least the known chemicals in paragon through over exposure. So I think it is more than reasonable to assert that I would not be sensitive to these chemicals if I did not have such a high level of exposure over the years.
My point is that it is entirely possible and likely that these chemicals are the reason I am such a high level of sensitivity now.
Based on your posts I guess I need to die before you feel there is an issue here...but then again, you would also probably say that I was just overly sensitive, and unique to me. wake up.
I am sorry this post is not as restrained as my normal posts, but I am extremely pissed that I need to give up this hobby and for someone to tell me to "get real" is just ridiculous.
Thanks to those that do understand what it means to me to give this up.
Last edited by Martin Crisp; 03-13-2007 at 05:48 AM.
03-13-2007, 05:40 AM
#274
Hey guys,
It's true about what Martin is saying about the chemicals in the tire compounds. I too an avid racer from the same local track where Martin races in the Toronto area. I also had to quit racing electric racing due to the migrains and nose bleeds after every major race or even club race. At some of the local clubs races I couldn't even finish the night of racing. I would have to leave the before the night even had ended. There were times I wouldn't be able to make it home because I would be off to the side of the highway trying to stop my nose bleeds. After being back into electric racing for the past couple of months and then have to stop the hobby due to side affects. I have even decided not to run nitro this summer due to the health problems that I had. I am an avid lover of the rc hobby and will always be in a big with my heart. But after going through all these health problems I am better off staying away from the hobby. For all the guys who know me that how many times I blew nitro motors or electronic speed controllers. I was always back the following week with new equipment and more frustrations, but I was always the first guy at the track to race.
Martin I wish you the best of luck in the future and thank's for speaking out in the rc community.
D.P.S.
It's true about what Martin is saying about the chemicals in the tire compounds. I too an avid racer from the same local track where Martin races in the Toronto area. I also had to quit racing electric racing due to the migrains and nose bleeds after every major race or even club race. At some of the local clubs races I couldn't even finish the night of racing. I would have to leave the before the night even had ended. There were times I wouldn't be able to make it home because I would be off to the side of the highway trying to stop my nose bleeds. After being back into electric racing for the past couple of months and then have to stop the hobby due to side affects. I have even decided not to run nitro this summer due to the health problems that I had. I am an avid lover of the rc hobby and will always be in a big with my heart. But after going through all these health problems I am better off staying away from the hobby. For all the guys who know me that how many times I blew nitro motors or electronic speed controllers. I was always back the following week with new equipment and more frustrations, but I was always the first guy at the track to race.
Martin I wish you the best of luck in the future and thank's for speaking out in the rc community.
D.P.S.
03-13-2007, 05:43 AM
#275
First I would like to point out that I find it sad that martin has to give up something he loves because of this issue but at least he knows when enough is enough and I applaud Martin for his decision. second I do know for a fact that being around certain substances can have dramatic effects on your body over a period of time in fact some substances can cause you to become allergic to them such as latex and quite possibly the chemicals in paragon can to. We all have different immune systems and all react differently to chemicals so again. I wish Martin the best and hope he can fine a resolution to the issue so he can enjoy this hobby again.
03-13-2007, 06:12 AM
#276
I know for outdoor pan racing back in the day everyone used suntan lotion on the foam tires. Maybe we can go back to suntan lotion or something new derived from suntan lotion ingredients?
03-13-2007, 06:13 AM
#277
Um real cars don't use traction additives?
then do tell me what VHT is? and why it is used in full size dirt oval and drag racing?
and jack the slipper is just as bad as paragon if you look at the active ingredients it just doesn't smell. just because it doens't smell doesn't mean it can't kill you.
then do tell me what VHT is? and why it is used in full size dirt oval and drag racing?
and jack the slipper is just as bad as paragon if you look at the active ingredients it just doesn't smell. just because it doens't smell doesn't mean it can't kill you.
03-13-2007, 06:18 AM
#279
Originally Posted by sKiMpYbOy
Hey guys,
It's true about what Martin is saying about the chemicals in the tire compounds. I too an avid racer from the same local track where Martin races in the Toronto area. I also had to quit racing electric racing due to the migrains and nose bleeds after every major race or even club race. At some of the local clubs races I couldn't even finish the night of racing. I would have to leave the before the night even had ended. There were times I wouldn't be able to make it home because I would be off to the side of the highway trying to stop my nose bleeds. After being back into electric racing for the past couple of months and then have to stop the hobby due to side affects. I have even decided not to run nitro this summer due to the health problems that I had. I am an avid lover of the rc hobby and will always be in a big with my heart. But after going through all these health problems I am better off staying away from the hobby. For all the guys who know me that how many times I blew nitro motors or electronic speed controllers. I was always back the following week with new equipment and more frustrations, but I was always the first guy at the track to race.
Martin I wish you the best of luck in the future and thank's for speaking out in the rc community.
D.P.S.
It's true about what Martin is saying about the chemicals in the tire compounds. I too an avid racer from the same local track where Martin races in the Toronto area. I also had to quit racing electric racing due to the migrains and nose bleeds after every major race or even club race. At some of the local clubs races I couldn't even finish the night of racing. I would have to leave the before the night even had ended. There were times I wouldn't be able to make it home because I would be off to the side of the highway trying to stop my nose bleeds. After being back into electric racing for the past couple of months and then have to stop the hobby due to side affects. I have even decided not to run nitro this summer due to the health problems that I had. I am an avid lover of the rc hobby and will always be in a big with my heart. But after going through all these health problems I am better off staying away from the hobby. For all the guys who know me that how many times I blew nitro motors or electronic speed controllers. I was always back the following week with new equipment and more frustrations, but I was always the first guy at the track to race.
Martin I wish you the best of luck in the future and thank's for speaking out in the rc community.
D.P.S.
03-13-2007, 06:27 AM
#280
Martin- I have no problem with telling you who I am. My name is Anthony Saunders. So that you or others don't feel I am "hiding" behind a screen name. I didn't realize that when I signed up for the forum I needed to use my "real" name. As it did ask for a "screen name" not my "real name".
But as I said in one of my earlier post, I hate to see ANYONE leave this hobby. I in NO WAY intented for you to feel my post were a personal attack on you. I was only trying to get others to see that there are MANY THINGS in our everyday uses that could be just as harmful if not more so than traction compound. BTW I never told YOU to "get real" as in a reference to your ill effects from the compound. I said " Come on lets be REAL...." and then went into saying that the product had been around for so long with no documented serious health issuse. Sorry if you took that as a stab at you! It was in no way intended to be.
If you have allergic reactions or feel sick or have ANY ill feelings after using anything in this hobby or in your personal life it is YOUR choice to discontinue using it.
The only point I was trying to make was things react to different ppl in different ways. It is hard to turn on a radio, computer or T.V. now adays and within 5 mins. you can hear how so and so product is gonna do this or that. I, nor anyone else on here are trying to say that certain types of compound are good or bad for our health or make light of your situation.
Again, I hate to see a top level racer leave the hobby but as you and others have stated your health is the most important thing. So if you feel that leaving is the best for you then I wish you the best in what ever you choose next to do as a hobby!
But as I said in one of my earlier post, I hate to see ANYONE leave this hobby. I in NO WAY intented for you to feel my post were a personal attack on you. I was only trying to get others to see that there are MANY THINGS in our everyday uses that could be just as harmful if not more so than traction compound. BTW I never told YOU to "get real" as in a reference to your ill effects from the compound. I said " Come on lets be REAL...." and then went into saying that the product had been around for so long with no documented serious health issuse. Sorry if you took that as a stab at you! It was in no way intended to be.
If you have allergic reactions or feel sick or have ANY ill feelings after using anything in this hobby or in your personal life it is YOUR choice to discontinue using it.
The only point I was trying to make was things react to different ppl in different ways. It is hard to turn on a radio, computer or T.V. now adays and within 5 mins. you can hear how so and so product is gonna do this or that. I, nor anyone else on here are trying to say that certain types of compound are good or bad for our health or make light of your situation.
Again, I hate to see a top level racer leave the hobby but as you and others have stated your health is the most important thing. So if you feel that leaving is the best for you then I wish you the best in what ever you choose next to do as a hobby!
03-13-2007, 06:54 AM
#281
Hey Anthony,
What you not recognizing is there are long-term health effects associated with using tire additives and other chemicals we use use in a closed, poorly ventilated environment. Ask any doctor, my neurologist has advised me to basically quit indoor racing.
I've been experiencing health problems recently, and if you read back in this thread and have read some of my Rev-up articles I caution everyone who races indoors to pay attention to how much exposure they have with these chemicals.
I limit indoor carpet racing to once a month...and after each race weekend, my health problems seem to always come back.
ROAR has done nothing about this...the fact that Paragon does not list the ingredients in its products or the long term health risks is s HUGE issue. In my opinion, ROAR failure to address a potential health concern is another problem.
Pactra was forced to post warning labels on its products and now I use only water based paints.
It never seems to be a big deal until it hits home...trust us...its not fun
What you not recognizing is there are long-term health effects associated with using tire additives and other chemicals we use use in a closed, poorly ventilated environment. Ask any doctor, my neurologist has advised me to basically quit indoor racing.
I've been experiencing health problems recently, and if you read back in this thread and have read some of my Rev-up articles I caution everyone who races indoors to pay attention to how much exposure they have with these chemicals.
I limit indoor carpet racing to once a month...and after each race weekend, my health problems seem to always come back.
ROAR has done nothing about this...the fact that Paragon does not list the ingredients in its products or the long term health risks is s HUGE issue. In my opinion, ROAR failure to address a potential health concern is another problem.
Pactra was forced to post warning labels on its products and now I use only water based paints.
It never seems to be a big deal until it hits home...trust us...its not fun
03-13-2007, 07:21 AM
#282
Carl- I understood completely. I was only trying to get others to see its not just the compounds that can have long term effects on our health. That was all I was trying to say.
How many guys on here have trued up foam tires they have glued the side walls on? Think that smoke that burns your eyes and makes them tear up is good to be breathing in.....
How many have sprayed out a motor and gotten the motor spray on your hands? Did they dry out and turn white looking? Now how many of you actually wash your hand after doing this and before going and grabbing a hot dog or bag of chips from the track snack shop....
How many have handled a battery pack that has vented? Think those chemicals coming out the end are good for us....
Like I said before this hobby is filled with things that are in no way good for our health. That was all I was saying.
How many guys on here have trued up foam tires they have glued the side walls on? Think that smoke that burns your eyes and makes them tear up is good to be breathing in.....
How many have sprayed out a motor and gotten the motor spray on your hands? Did they dry out and turn white looking? Now how many of you actually wash your hand after doing this and before going and grabbing a hot dog or bag of chips from the track snack shop....
How many have handled a battery pack that has vented? Think those chemicals coming out the end are good for us....
Like I said before this hobby is filled with things that are in no way good for our health. That was all I was saying.
03-13-2007, 07:22 AM
#283
Carl- BTW aren't you a nitro guy....LOL When did you guys start using Paragon? LOL
I bet if you told you doctor about those nitro fumes you would be advised to give up nitro racing also, what ya think?
I bet if you told you doctor about those nitro fumes you would be advised to give up nitro racing also, what ya think?
03-13-2007, 07:36 AM
#284
Tech Fanatic
Thread Starter
Anthony,
Sorry if I jumped on you hard, but I want to make sure you are not making light of this serious issue. I believe very strongly that this should not be thought of as "well it just happened to few hyper allergic" folks.
You might be correct that it is my choice...and I have made my choice. Although I could argue that I have no choice but to do this. That in no way excuses the community (organization bodies, manufactures, race promoters, track owners, and certainly drivers) from not improving on this serious health issue. I know at my local track there is a small but growing movement from the drivers to want to explore other options such as using rubber tires with no compounds. It's these kind of initiatives that can make a difference...it is not just the responsibility of one member of the community it is the responsibility of the entire community.
ROAR has expressed a concern about this, but has taken no action. Carl is correct that ROAR needs to take some action, but in my opinion so do track owners, manufactures and drivers. I have taken my action. I would bet that if drivers refuse to race at tracks that run foam tires with traction compound, you would see some changes.
If I was a paid driver that made my living from this hobby I would try to get other top pro paid drivers to make a stand and demand a change. After all if this was my living I would want to make sure that I stay healthy to earn a pay cheque. In Canada maybe I have some influence, but I am just a second tier driver in the US, and as such don't have the influence of the top drivers. Just imagine what could happen if he top pro drivers, key track owners, race promoters and ROAR took a stand on this...
Sorry if I jumped on you hard, but I want to make sure you are not making light of this serious issue. I believe very strongly that this should not be thought of as "well it just happened to few hyper allergic" folks.
You might be correct that it is my choice...and I have made my choice. Although I could argue that I have no choice but to do this. That in no way excuses the community (organization bodies, manufactures, race promoters, track owners, and certainly drivers) from not improving on this serious health issue. I know at my local track there is a small but growing movement from the drivers to want to explore other options such as using rubber tires with no compounds. It's these kind of initiatives that can make a difference...it is not just the responsibility of one member of the community it is the responsibility of the entire community.
ROAR has expressed a concern about this, but has taken no action. Carl is correct that ROAR needs to take some action, but in my opinion so do track owners, manufactures and drivers. I have taken my action. I would bet that if drivers refuse to race at tracks that run foam tires with traction compound, you would see some changes.
If I was a paid driver that made my living from this hobby I would try to get other top pro paid drivers to make a stand and demand a change. After all if this was my living I would want to make sure that I stay healthy to earn a pay cheque. In Canada maybe I have some influence, but I am just a second tier driver in the US, and as such don't have the influence of the top drivers. Just imagine what could happen if he top pro drivers, key track owners, race promoters and ROAR took a stand on this...
03-13-2007, 07:51 AM
#285
Anthony, the difference here is this...
Each of those situations can be avoided or exposure can be limited. The racer can take precaution. In the Traction compound situation, when the whole room is permiated with it, they cannot. Bascailly it is out of thier control.
We have to start somewhere, and limiting exposure to one harmful thing, is better then not doing anything at all.
Each of those situations can be avoided or exposure can be limited. The racer can take precaution. In the Traction compound situation, when the whole room is permiated with it, they cannot. Bascailly it is out of thier control.
We have to start somewhere, and limiting exposure to one harmful thing, is better then not doing anything at all.
Originally Posted by imprsme
Carl- I understood completely. I was only trying to get others to see its not just the compounds that can have long term effects on our health. That was all I was trying to say.
How many guys on here have trued up foam tires they have glued the side walls on? Think that smoke that burns your eyes and makes them tear up is good to be breathing in.....
How many have sprayed out a motor and gotten the motor spray on your hands? Did they dry out and turn white looking? Now how many of you actually wash your hand after doing this and before going and grabbing a hot dog or bag of chips from the track snack shop....
How many have handled a battery pack that has vented? Think those chemicals coming out the end are good for us....
Like I said before this hobby is filled with things that are in no way good for our health. That was all I was saying.
How many guys on here have trued up foam tires they have glued the side walls on? Think that smoke that burns your eyes and makes them tear up is good to be breathing in.....
How many have sprayed out a motor and gotten the motor spray on your hands? Did they dry out and turn white looking? Now how many of you actually wash your hand after doing this and before going and grabbing a hot dog or bag of chips from the track snack shop....
How many have handled a battery pack that has vented? Think those chemicals coming out the end are good for us....
Like I said before this hobby is filled with things that are in no way good for our health. That was all I was saying.
Last edited by TimPotter; 03-13-2007 at 04:51 PM.