272LikesXRAY T4'19 SPEC
09-15-2019, 07:14 AM
#588
3 parts in fact... That's what I got after the crash lol
09-16-2019, 01:53 AM
#589
I ran the Arrowmax mid-motor conversion this weekend. Carbon version, medium grip asphalt. The car has way too much flex, you can see it on the bench, and feel it on track. The car is reluctant to turn in, then on exit wants to keep turning when it's time to straighten up. It feels similar to when I tried the 1.6mm topdeck outdoors.
So I'm going to cut some different topdeck options to try. I've seen the Rebellion style one work really well, and that should be much stronger in a crash. I can easily cut a few different widths to try different flex options.
So I'm going to cut some different topdeck options to try. I've seen the Rebellion style one work really well, and that should be much stronger in a crash. I can easily cut a few different widths to try different flex options.
09-16-2019, 06:21 AM
#590
I ran the Arrowmax mid-motor conversion this weekend. Carbon version, medium grip asphalt. The car has way too much flex, you can see it on the bench, and feel it on track. The car is reluctant to turn in, then on exit wants to keep turning when it's time to straighten up. It feels similar to when I tried the 1.6mm topdeck outdoors.
So I'm going to cut some different topdeck options to try. I've seen the Rebellion style one work really well, and that should be much stronger in a crash. I can easily cut a few different widths to try different flex options.
So I'm going to cut some different topdeck options to try. I've seen the Rebellion style one work really well, and that should be much stronger in a crash. I can easily cut a few different widths to try different flex options.
So did it feel similar to your layshaft conversion you made for Sorex tyres?
09-16-2019, 08:01 AM
#591
I actually ran my one-piece motor mount the week before, with the carbon centre-brace to stiffen things up. Probably the best I've had the car go in warm weather:
RC-Results - Bedworth RCCC - 08/09/2019 - Summer Series 2019 Round 9 - Finals - Round 2 - Race 6 - Open TC - A Final
09-16-2019, 09:33 AM
#592
I ran the Arrowmax mid-motor conversion this weekend. Carbon version, medium grip asphalt. The car has way too much flex, you can see it on the bench, and feel it on track. The car is reluctant to turn in, then on exit wants to keep turning when it's time to straighten up.
09-16-2019, 10:41 AM
#593
The Arrowmax mount is very small, with the mounting points all close together, giving lots of flex.
On the plus side, the Arrowmax quality is great, and the one-piece mount won't tweak like some of the others. And it keeps the motor and battery nice and central. Hopefully with a stiffer top-deck it can be good.
09-16-2019, 11:47 AM
#594
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
So, with different manufacturers going different "routes" (especially in regards to the upper deck) on their mid-motor conversion kits, which (if any) are TRULY good, and produce the best end-results? By "best", on a 0-10 scale ('5' is equal to the T4's stock configuration, '0' is "ruined the car beyond belief", and '10' is "made the car way better than anyone ever thought possible"), I'm talking 8, or above.
09-16-2019, 12:29 PM
#595
They've gone with a different design to most of the other conversion kits. The ARC, Arrowmax, Capricorn, Awesomatix, Zerotribe, Rebellion... all have a long motor mount, with a mounting point in front of the spur to make the chassis fairly stiff at the front.
The Arrowmax mount is very small, with the mounting points all close together, giving lots of flex.
On the plus side, the Arrowmax quality is great, and the one-piece mount won't tweak like some of the others. And it keeps the motor and battery nice and central. Hopefully with a stiffer top-deck it can be good.
The Arrowmax mount is very small, with the mounting points all close together, giving lots of flex.
On the plus side, the Arrowmax quality is great, and the one-piece mount won't tweak like some of the others. And it keeps the motor and battery nice and central. Hopefully with a stiffer top-deck it can be good.
I will add that kits like the ZT use a std 2.2mm deck, which returns quite a bit of the overall stiffness.
I’m pretty sure that a lot of the ailments can be cured with a stiffer deck. In the meantime, have you guys considered going with softer front springs and stiffer rear to compensate for the difference in flex characteristic? You can remedy some of that behavior by changing springs or raising the roll centers.
09-16-2019, 01:40 PM
#596
Our motor mount is small as well and I can’t say that I necessarily agree with you that this causes excessive flex. More than likely, the Arrowmax top deck is too narrow at the front. This has a substantial effect in overall stiffness. We found big increases in stiffness simply by widening it by only 2mm in the front section. Our car, while quite flexy, is very responsive on entry and stable on exit.
I will add that kits like the ZT use a std 2.2mm deck, which returns quite a bit of the overall stiffness.
I’m pretty sure that a lot of the ailments can be cured with a stiffer deck. In the meantime, have you guys considered going with softer front springs and stiffer rear to compensate for the difference in flex characteristic? You can remedy some of that behavior by changing springs or raising the roll centers.
Regarding motor mounts, I have had very positive results on other cars such as my Destiny that has a very long & stiff motor mount that you can tune with screws and shims. It's fantastic actually. If we had this tuning ability at the front of these mid pulley cars, we'd be golden.
I have the luxury of just running a different car until the proper parts are available to fix this flex issue so I'll wait rather than chase setup that may never work. I mean, I've been through all this before with other flexy flyers. It's a lost cause unless you have no other options.
09-16-2019, 02:26 PM
#597
Our motor mount is small as well and I can’t say that I necessarily agree with you that this causes excessive flex. More than likely, the Arrowmax top deck is too narrow at the front. This has a substantial effect in overall stiffness. We found big increases in stiffness simply by widening it by only 2mm in the front section. Our car, while quite flexy, is very responsive on entry and stable on exit.
I will add that kits like the ZT use a std 2.2mm deck, which returns quite a bit of the overall stiffness.
I’m pretty sure that a lot of the ailments can be cured with a stiffer deck. In the meantime, have you guys considered going with softer front springs and stiffer rear to compensate for the difference in flex characteristic? You can remedy some of that behavior by changing springs or raising the roll centers.
09-17-2019, 01:38 PM
#598
A busy morning in the garage, followed by an afternoon at the track!
The conclusion... pretty much anything is better than the Arrowmax topdeck. Even at the start of the day when grip was low it was slower than my normal car.
By the end of the day, after lots of tests and repeated back-to-backs, I ended up 0.1s quicker with the mid car, and a few seconds quicker over a run.
The Rebellion style 'chicane' topdeck and vertical top decks both worked well. Pros and cons of each, but overall I prefer the chicane style as it lighter and neater, and easier to detweak.
09-17-2019, 01:55 PM
#600
I settled on 11mm wide, 2mm carbon. Tried a 13mm one, grip needed to be higher for it to work. Very easy to change as they slide straight under the belts.