Tekno RC SCT410.3 Thread
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#2926
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
For sake of keeping interesting discussion for learning, Team pro "Jeremy McGuigan" and I where relaying on shock pistons and the effects of different design and setup theory.
Interestingly the Tekno pistons are unlike any others in such regard, being a conical funnel shape that Jeremy and myself believe is advantageous over static flat disc types, through theory and his personal experience and extensive testing.
Within the topic we can agree there is a lot of skepticism and controversy that surround port tapers and whether or not there is any noticeable function to the notion.
Luckily for us, there aren't just two options to play with or lack of theory for consideration!
To reference a company and product I personally believe in and fully support, I would like to add some take away insight from Vision Racing Product's (VRP) founding engineer, "Mr Lawson" who would suggest there is negligible effect to be had in port taper or taper direction, and has said to have been proven the case through extensive shock dyno testing scenarios.
A viscous fluid traveling through a fixed hole is not effected either way it flows, no matter how it is introduced into the void.
Displacing volume is displacing volume and will remain as such in a closed environment.
(This to me makes perfect sense that fluid dynamics will also generally support.)
Hence the reason for the two-stage design that introduces more flowing ports on the rebound stroke.
Admittedly, Mr Lawson says there is nothing new about the design or theory behind it, and makes no bones about that.
However, what makes VRP pistons so unique is simplicity of design.
Generally this is universally accepted as a "key ingredient" to a reliable and consistent function, which needs little thought for tuning swap outs as needed.
That being said, Tekno's Jeremy McGuigan had some valuable insight in regards to what he can personal attest for from using the non-typical Tekno designed pistons in upright and inverted position.
While the effects of such reversal may be negligible for a flat style design, "taper ported or not", the felt difference of the Tekno design is noticeably pronounced.
Personally I found this to be thought provoking with my own theoretical reasoning behind why this would be the case and has lead me to my own conclusions to the matter.
With all things considered from much research and deep discussion, I believe Tekno's design utilizes the "lesser considered but equally profound ingredient" of the micro air bubbles that are inevitable within any passive sealed fluid shock, regardless of progressive or "dead" setup choice.
If my theory is correct, the conical shape must help funnel and condense these micro air bubbles by channeling a central compaction in a way that significantly changes the rate of pack and rebound, exponentially so as tolerances close up from extension and or compression.
Any comments on the subject or personal experiences or preferences would be much appreciated to add to what I've said.
Interestingly the Tekno pistons are unlike any others in such regard, being a conical funnel shape that Jeremy and myself believe is advantageous over static flat disc types, through theory and his personal experience and extensive testing.
Within the topic we can agree there is a lot of skepticism and controversy that surround port tapers and whether or not there is any noticeable function to the notion.
Luckily for us, there aren't just two options to play with or lack of theory for consideration!
To reference a company and product I personally believe in and fully support, I would like to add some take away insight from Vision Racing Product's (VRP) founding engineer, "Mr Lawson" who would suggest there is negligible effect to be had in port taper or taper direction, and has said to have been proven the case through extensive shock dyno testing scenarios.
A viscous fluid traveling through a fixed hole is not effected either way it flows, no matter how it is introduced into the void.
Displacing volume is displacing volume and will remain as such in a closed environment.
(This to me makes perfect sense that fluid dynamics will also generally support.)
Hence the reason for the two-stage design that introduces more flowing ports on the rebound stroke.
Admittedly, Mr Lawson says there is nothing new about the design or theory behind it, and makes no bones about that.
However, what makes VRP pistons so unique is simplicity of design.
Generally this is universally accepted as a "key ingredient" to a reliable and consistent function, which needs little thought for tuning swap outs as needed.
That being said, Tekno's Jeremy McGuigan had some valuable insight in regards to what he can personal attest for from using the non-typical Tekno designed pistons in upright and inverted position.
While the effects of such reversal may be negligible for a flat style design, "taper ported or not", the felt difference of the Tekno design is noticeably pronounced.
Personally I found this to be thought provoking with my own theoretical reasoning behind why this would be the case and has lead me to my own conclusions to the matter.
With all things considered from much research and deep discussion, I believe Tekno's design utilizes the "lesser considered but equally profound ingredient" of the micro air bubbles that are inevitable within any passive sealed fluid shock, regardless of progressive or "dead" setup choice.
If my theory is correct, the conical shape must help funnel and condense these micro air bubbles by channeling a central compaction in a way that significantly changes the rate of pack and rebound, exponentially so as tolerances close up from extension and or compression.
Any comments on the subject or personal experiences or preferences would be much appreciated to add to what I've said.
Last edited by Josh L; 01-30-2016 at 03:00 PM.
#2927
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
For sake of keeping interesting discussion for learning, Team pro "Jeremy McGuigan" and I where relaying on shock pistons and the effects of different design and setup theory.
Interestingly the Tekno pistons are unlike any others in such regard, being a conical funnel shape that Jeremy and myself believe is advantageous over static flat disc types, through theory and his personal experience and extensive testing.
Within the topic we can agree there is a lot of skepticism and controversy that surround port tapers and whether or not there is any noticeable function to the notion.
Luckily for us, there aren't just two options to play with or lack of theory for consideration!
To reference a company and product I personally believe in and fully support, I would like to add some take away insight from Vision Racing Product's (VRP) founding engineer, "Mr Lawson" who would suggest there is negligible effect to be had in port taper or taper direction, and has said to have been proven the case through extensive shock dyno testing scenarios.
A viscous fluid traveling through a fixed hole is not effected either way it flows, no matter how it is introduced into the void.
Displacing volume is displacing volume and will remain as such in a closed environment.
(This to me makes perfect sense that fluid dynamics will also generally support.)
Hence the reason for the two-stage design that introduces more flowing ports on the rebound stroke.
Admittedly, Mr Lawson says there is nothing new about the design or theory behind it, and makes no bones about that.
However, what makes VRP pistons so unique is simplicity of design.
Generally this is universally accepted as a "key ingredient" to a reliable and consistent function, which needs little thought for tuning swap outs as needed.
That being said, Tekno's Jeremy McGuigan had some valuable insight in regards to what he can personal attest for from using the non-typical Tekno designed pistons in upright and inverted position.
While the effects of such reversal may be negligible for a flat style design, "taper ported or not", the felt difference of the Tekno design is noticeably pronounced.
Personally I found this to be thought provoking with my own theoretical reasoning behind why this would be the case and has lead me to my own conclusions to the matter.
With all things considered from much research and deep discussion, I believe Tekno's design utilizes the "lesser considered but equally profound ingredient" of the micro air bubbles that are inevitable within any passive sealed fluid shock, regardless of progressive or "dead" setup choice.
If my theory is correct, the conical shape must help funnel and condense these micro air bubbles by channeling a central compaction in a way that significantly changes the rate of pack and rebound, exponentially so as tolerances close up from extension and or compression.
Any comments on the subject or personal experiences or preferences would be much appreciated to add to what I've said.
Interestingly the Tekno pistons are unlike any others in such regard, being a conical funnel shape that Jeremy and myself believe is advantageous over static flat disc types, through theory and his personal experience and extensive testing.
Within the topic we can agree there is a lot of skepticism and controversy that surround port tapers and whether or not there is any noticeable function to the notion.
Luckily for us, there aren't just two options to play with or lack of theory for consideration!
To reference a company and product I personally believe in and fully support, I would like to add some take away insight from Vision Racing Product's (VRP) founding engineer, "Mr Lawson" who would suggest there is negligible effect to be had in port taper or taper direction, and has said to have been proven the case through extensive shock dyno testing scenarios.
A viscous fluid traveling through a fixed hole is not effected either way it flows, no matter how it is introduced into the void.
Displacing volume is displacing volume and will remain as such in a closed environment.
(This to me makes perfect sense that fluid dynamics will also generally support.)
Hence the reason for the two-stage design that introduces more flowing ports on the rebound stroke.
Admittedly, Mr Lawson says there is nothing new about the design or theory behind it, and makes no bones about that.
However, what makes VRP pistons so unique is simplicity of design.
Generally this is universally accepted as a "key ingredient" to a reliable and consistent function, which needs little thought for tuning swap outs as needed.
That being said, Tekno's Jeremy McGuigan had some valuable insight in regards to what he can personal attest for from using the non-typical Tekno designed pistons in upright and inverted position.
While the effects of such reversal may be negligible for a flat style design, "taper ported or not", the felt difference of the Tekno design is noticeably pronounced.
Personally I found this to be thought provoking with my own theoretical reasoning behind why this would be the case and has lead me to my own conclusions to the matter.
With all things considered from much research and deep discussion, I believe Tekno's design utilizes the "lesser considered but equally profound ingredient" of the micro air bubbles that are inevitable within any passive sealed fluid shock, regardless of progressive or "dead" setup choice.
If my theory is correct, the conical shape must help funnel and condense these micro air bubbles by channeling a central compaction in a way that significantly changes the rate of pack and rebound, exponentially so as tolerances close up from extension and or compression.
Any comments on the subject or personal experiences or preferences would be much appreciated to add to what I've said.
This one seems simple enough, the Tekno tapered piston has less of the same quick rebound effect than the port opening VRP. I know the entire set of equations from Bernoulli don't show this because they don't talk of compressible fluids.
Its simple deduction that the pointed tapered side will compress the fluid less that the cupped side making the rebound stroke faster than the compression stroke.
Like you already said, air bubbles just make that effect stronger - not to mention the tension, shear, and wave behavior that are nearly impossible to understand unless you throw it into an Ansys model or something.
I'll try both Pistons since the VRP's seem to be in stock at my local Hobby Shop Track (Dirt Burners, Livonia, MI). Already purchased the tapered 6x1.5 pistons from Tekno. We shall see!
#2929
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
And just to inform everyone, VRP just now released a new version (V2) of their game changer pistons!
Check them out here>
http://www.visionracingproducts.com/
Note the site has been up and down all day, due to updating. But check back ever so often, and you will see what I told you about
#2930
Just built my second SCT410.3 and I just have one question... I mean... it's really a great kit... really really good... BUT... SERIOUSLY... why don't they just ream the a-arms before they ship the kit... I'm sure there is some rando who has some perfect way to accomplish this or some smart response... but seriously... just give us A-arms that fit the damn hinge pins already!!! Argh!!!
#2931
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (2)
Just built my second SCT410.3 and I just have one question... I mean... it's really a great kit... really really good... BUT... SERIOUSLY... why don't they just ream the a-arms before they ship the kit... I'm sure there is some rando who has some perfect way to accomplish this or some smart response... but seriously... just give us A-arms that fit the damn hinge pins already!!! Argh!!!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CW8URZ6
#2933
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
Another good method for getting the arms to loosen up is one I use.
Take and chuck up one of the longest pins in a drill. Preferably a used one once you have more than just the original set, but a new one works...
Hold the arm still while running the drill and that will start to build up heat and slick the inner hole. Pull it back out and then take a pencil and run the drill while holding the graphite against the pin. Paint the entire thing with the graphite and run the pin back into the holes with the drill again. This coats the inside with graphite and slicks it up like a glass bearing.
Take and chuck up one of the longest pins in a drill. Preferably a used one once you have more than just the original set, but a new one works...
Hold the arm still while running the drill and that will start to build up heat and slick the inner hole. Pull it back out and then take a pencil and run the drill while holding the graphite against the pin. Paint the entire thing with the graphite and run the pin back into the holes with the drill again. This coats the inside with graphite and slicks it up like a glass bearing.
#2934
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
I have a 4300 Pro4 HD motor on the way to work with this beast of a Tekno 410.3. I've heard lots of stories about guys heating this motor up pretty good on our local clay indoor track.
Do you guys run a motor fan? if so what fan setup do you recommend that works well with this truck? Thanks!
Do you guys run a motor fan? if so what fan setup do you recommend that works well with this truck? Thanks!
#2935
Tech Master
iTrader: (36)
I have a 4300 Pro4 HD motor on the way to work with this beast of a Tekno 410.3. I've heard lots of stories about guys heating this motor up pretty good on our local clay indoor track.
Do you guys run a motor fan? if so what fan setup do you recommend that works well with this truck? Thanks!
Do you guys run a motor fan? if so what fan setup do you recommend that works well with this truck? Thanks!
http://www.sumo-racing.com/Tekno_SCT410_Fan_Kit.html
#2936
Tech Addict
iTrader: (1)
I have a 4300 Pro4 HD motor on the way to work with this beast of a Tekno 410.3. I've heard lots of stories about guys heating this motor up pretty good on our local clay indoor track.
Do you guys run a motor fan? if so what fan setup do you recommend that works well with this truck? Thanks!
Do you guys run a motor fan? if so what fan setup do you recommend that works well with this truck? Thanks!
#2938
#2939
Tech Rookie
couldnt you just gear it properly, probably down a tooth or two to drop temps. Works for me.
#2940
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
I'm running 4300hd with 17t pinion and never had any heat issues. Current limiter at 75, but going to take it back even more.
I agree with the arm reaming thing. Just make it right out of the box. That being said, I use a #19 drill bit. That 4mm reamer wears my arm out.
I agree with the arm reaming thing. Just make it right out of the box. That being said, I use a #19 drill bit. That 4mm reamer wears my arm out.