65LikesTune With Camber Links
02-14-2013 | 09:25 PM
#1203
Will do. I agree on the rear toe, but I'm fixed at 3 degrees with my current suspension holders and hubs. I'd have to purchase some aftermarket hubs to get the toe any more. Plus I think 3 degrees is plenty to be honest. Most I'd want to go is 3.5 which can be done with the RB5 STRC rear hubs. I might get those as well as trying the front camber link.
02-20-2013 | 08:49 AM
#1205
I'm having trouble with my RB5 oversteering. The rear end just wants to violently break loose around tighter corners. That's really the only issue I'm having with it right now. Steering is good throughout the turn and forward traction is great. Here's how it's set up right now...
Front shocks more upright (out on the tower)
Rear shocks more inclined (in on the tower)
Front camber link long, higher on the tower
Rear camber link long, higher on the tower
Front camber 1 degree
Rear camber 2 degrees
The track I'm running on is a pretty smooth clay indoor track, but traction is lacking some days, especially after they water the track. I would classify the track as medium traction bordering on slippery. After reading the thread I'm thinking I should probably raise my roll center in the rear. That means taking my spacers out and LOWERING the link on the tower. That should make the rear end a bit more predictable and keep it from breaking loose so violently. It's good up to a point, but after that it rotates way too quickly.
Am I thinking correctly here? If I'm wrong please correct me and point out why.
Front shocks more upright (out on the tower)
Rear shocks more inclined (in on the tower)
Front camber link long, higher on the tower
Rear camber link long, higher on the tower
Front camber 1 degree
Rear camber 2 degrees
The track I'm running on is a pretty smooth clay indoor track, but traction is lacking some days, especially after they water the track. I would classify the track as medium traction bordering on slippery. After reading the thread I'm thinking I should probably raise my roll center in the rear. That means taking my spacers out and LOWERING the link on the tower. That should make the rear end a bit more predictable and keep it from breaking loose so violently. It's good up to a point, but after that it rotates way too quickly.
Am I thinking correctly here? If I'm wrong please correct me and point out why.
02-20-2013 | 06:29 PM
#1206
Here is a question for the experts that linger this thread .
more chassis role =more traction given examples I've seen in this thread
Assuming traction is super high like on carpet on road racing more role is only good to a extent then car begins to traction roll.
OK now if u limit the chassis role to much it will traction roll.
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
more chassis role =more traction given examples I've seen in this thread
Assuming traction is super high like on carpet on road racing more role is only good to a extent then car begins to traction roll.
OK now if u limit the chassis role to much it will traction roll.
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
02-20-2013 | 09:34 PM
#1207
I also have a question for the guys who are a bit more advanced in this thread/theory we have going on.
I'm looking to gain more off power steering, especially on turn-in. My on power steering is just fine and my mid to late corner steering is acceptable, but turning in off power I plow like a dump truck.
Will spacing my front camber links higher on the tower side help me with this? The link is already as long as it can get, and the shocks are stood up pretty good (out on the tower, out on the arm). Just looking to really fine tune my setup at this point. Everything else is working beautifully.
Edit: Almost forgot, what about caster? Right now I'm running 30 degrees. Would changing to 25 degrees help?
I'm looking to gain more off power steering, especially on turn-in. My on power steering is just fine and my mid to late corner steering is acceptable, but turning in off power I plow like a dump truck.
Will spacing my front camber links higher on the tower side help me with this? The link is already as long as it can get, and the shocks are stood up pretty good (out on the tower, out on the arm). Just looking to really fine tune my setup at this point. Everything else is working beautifully.
Edit: Almost forgot, what about caster? Right now I'm running 30 degrees. Would changing to 25 degrees help?
02-20-2013 | 09:50 PM
#1208
Tech Adept
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 228
From: Arkansas
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
If you are traction rolling with positive camber there may be other things in play to cause that...if you're rolling the sidewall over on a turn you are effectively lowering that corner of the chassis, shifting the weight to that point, which could cause a roll...you are also reducing the contact patch of the tire, which would cause it to dig in on a side load but not improve any forward traction.
02-21-2013 | 05:40 AM
#1209
Tech Rookie
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15
Here is a question for the experts that linger this thread .
more chassis role =more traction given examples I've seen in this thread
Assuming traction is super high like on carpet on road racing more role is only good to a extent then car begins to traction roll.
OK now if u limit the chassis role to much it will traction roll.
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
more chassis role =more traction given examples I've seen in this thread
Assuming traction is super high like on carpet on road racing more role is only good to a extent then car begins to traction roll.
OK now if u limit the chassis role to much it will traction roll.
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
And when your rc car is rolling more it puts more weight on the outside wheels and thereby creating more grip?
02-21-2013 | 06:25 AM
#1210
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 201
From: San Antonio, TX
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
02-21-2013 | 06:32 AM
#1211
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,859
From: Powder Springs, GA
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
Typically I mover my roll center to get the most even wear on the tire, I will first try moving weight around to induce/reduse roll, then if I cannot get the desired result, I will move my links around!
I'm looking to gain more off power steering, especially on turn-in. My on power steering is just fine and my mid to late corner steering is acceptable, but turning in off power I plow like a dump truck.
Will spacing my front camber links higher on the tower side help me with this? The link is already as long as it can get, and the shocks are stood up pretty good (out on the tower, out on the arm). Just looking to really fine tune my setup at this point. Everything else is working beautifully.
Edit: Almost forgot, what about caster? Right now I'm running 30 degrees. Would changing to 25 degrees help?
Will spacing my front camber links higher on the tower side help me with this? The link is already as long as it can get, and the shocks are stood up pretty good (out on the tower, out on the arm). Just looking to really fine tune my setup at this point. Everything else is working beautifully.
Edit: Almost forgot, what about caster? Right now I'm running 30 degrees. Would changing to 25 degrees help?
02-21-2013 | 06:38 AM
#1212
I disagree with your premise. Why do you suggest that reducing roll too much causes traction rolling? The physics should be the same regardless of the surface type. Less roll= less weight transfer= less traction, not less roll to a certain point and then massive traction kicks in.
Traction roll is a difficult problem because depending on when it happens in the turn, it could require 2 opposite approaches to fix. (although removing front traction typically always cures it, but at the expense of a push).
02-21-2013 | 06:43 AM
#1213
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 201
From: San Antonio, TX
Yes raising the front camber link on the tower will allow the front to roll more and give you more traction/steering. If you still need a little more and you want to try another fine tuning adjustment, move your front shocks in one hole at a time on the tower until your desired steering is achieved. You will probably notice some smoother steering too. Post your results.
02-21-2013 | 06:46 AM
#1214
Here is a question for the experts that linger this thread .
more chassis role =more traction given examples I've seen in this thread
Assuming traction is super high like on carpet on road racing more role is only good to a extent then car begins to traction roll.
OK now if u limit the chassis role to much it will traction roll.
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
more chassis role =more traction given examples I've seen in this thread
Assuming traction is super high like on carpet on road racing more role is only good to a extent then car begins to traction roll.
OK now if u limit the chassis role to much it will traction roll.
Now that we r on a tight rope balancing beam hear is the question I have
With a low inner camber link mount ( high roll center ) the tire keeps a more negative to strait up profile wile a side load is applied thru a turn , in my eyes the more contact the center of a tire keeps with the track the more traction it has available for the tire .
OK if u run a high inner link ( low roll center ) the tire is more actively changing Camber as a side load is applied thru the turn meaning the Camber goes in the positives (leaning out ) making the contact patch transfer to only the outer area of the tire . How does this promote more grip?
The space we play with on most cars even a high to low roll center change is not a huge variance in camber gain, looking at rccrewcheif they have a model of the Yok Bmax, changing from full short link high roll center to long link, low roll center is only a .44 dg change in gain (for every 3mm of arm movement). I believe if static camber is in the normal 1-2dg range that you are still using most of the center part of the tire.
02-21-2013 | 07:13 AM
#1215
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 201
From: San Antonio, TX
I have never seen such massive traction that couldn't be compensated for with the right tire selection, spring choice, shorter camber link, and a high roll center. Are we talking about running on carpet? I think we might be talking about a 1% scenario when most of us are going to set up our cars for the other 99% of the off road surface conditions.
