Even if you measure the camber links (struts), ultimately a single bent screw (or worn threads), bent shock mount, screws in the arm not straight, etc will throw off the accuracy of the scientific method you are attempting.

Simply make sure you're your shock collets are dead even (left and right), and your ride height is exact, weigh your car and place weights as necessary. Then race.

Hooke's Law certainly applies to the springs, but I think some guys might be misinterpreting what's being affected. If your springs are exactly equal (which they most likely aren't but are close enough that it doesn't matter for practical purposes), and you make sure they are set identically by the collets, then Hooke's Law also says your scales will tell you if your car isn't left/right balanced. If your collets are off, then because of Hooke's Law, you will still be able to balance your cars on the scale but the amount of weights you use will be different. So I'll say it one more time...

Simply make sure you're your shock collets are dead even (left and right), and your ride height is exact, weigh your car and place weights as necessary. Then race.

Nobody, not even the best pro's, will be able to tell the difference on the track from an absolutely perfectly balanced car, and one balance by the method above.

If you balance your car with the Fake shox and you get it 100% balanced, but then put your shocks on and its all over the place this means that there is something wrong with either your shock build or springs and that problem can be addressed. Even having a very slight amount of shock pressure rebound on one shock will throw the entire car off. i think it is a great idea, will be cutting mine in about an hour!

in addition, one thing that has always drove me crazy is when you see a TC with 30g of weight on the side of the battery in the middle of the chassis when most of your weight is on the back left where the motor is. yes it is balanced L/R and yes the coil overs were able to compensate for it but it is wrong. my solution was to make a counter balance that looked like a motor but fit in the exact location of the motor but on the right side, looked crazy but worked like a charm, car was very quick and felt much more balance especially through transitions. on off road we may not be able to tell as much but that doesnt mean it wont make a difference. if you have to turn your collars more than one revolution you need to put weight somewhere. We are human so that chances that we get all four shock built perfect is low. if you build one shock with just a hair more rebound than the other your scaling will be off and then what happens when the oil starts to slowly leak? (they all do) well then your balance is off again because you lose the rebound on that corner. I raced Drag cars for years and i am 220 lbs when scaling my cars we tried to put as much weight as we could to the passengers seat area for the same reason. Yeah we could have just adjusted with the collars but the car wont leave straight if you do it that way.

If you balance the car using turnbuckles instead of shocks to get the weight perfectly balanced because the shocks cause uneven results then when you put the shock back on wouldnt the inbalance of the shocks still affect handling?

I think that's what Marcus just addressed above:

my fakes will be CNC milled and will be exact.

This sentence justifies copying others and not trying to innovate on your own. I personally disagree with it and quite frankly could care less what the pros do. They'll learn one day!

+1

Many onroad cars come with 2 small holes in the chassis F/R.
I put the same two holes in all my off road RC's.

With no tires, setting on the points (you can make them yourself) move your stuff around for your static balance side to side, a small bubble level will be needed on the chassis.

Then put the tires on and use one point and two scales so your only looking at one end at a time, keep the chassis level at all times.

At this point add the two scales together for the front and rear, also move your weight around more.
After you try doing it this way you'll get a better idea how to tell where the weight needs to go F/R.

We're not doing this because we want to be like the pro's anyway. They aren't my heroes!! We're doing it because we are nit-picking perfectionists and want to understand it all better!

here is the problem with the needle point techniques: lets say you are 30g light on the right side. with the chassis points you can put that 30g in the front or the rear and it will balance!!! that simply cannot be right as you are only balancing L/R what happens to the front if you take a left turn and have 30g of weight up front/right??? its going to dig the right tire into the ground and will not be the same as the left side. in a perfect world you need to have a single center point in the middle of the chassis and balance that way and that pretty much impossible. the heaviest component of any RC car is the motor and opposite of the motor location is where the majority of your weight balancing needs to be.
Here is my hyper, weight is place opposite the servo assembly with the same weight and opposite the motor with ESC and also the same weight. i also converted to saddlepack to get the perfect balance. very minimal collar adjusting once i got it on the scales.


yes the truck is heavier but power to weight doesnt matter if you cant turn!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Mantiswo...10/OniQ__aZN_o

There are some very smart people posting in this thread and alot of good info being shared. It is however painfully aparent in the last couple of pages that several of you have no idea of how to properly scale a car. The solid rod idea is a waste of time and completley unneeded if you scale it right. Sorry if I hurt your feelings but it had to be said.

First off, dont bother- I repeat, DO NOT BOTHER looking at individual corner weights untill last. Period. If your balancing a car you look at pairs. Always.

when adjusting the spring collars there are a few rules.

Rule 1 - You can't shift total weight between axles, LF + RF = Constant

Rule 2 - You can't shift total weight between sides, LF + LR = Constant

Rule 3 - You CAN shift total weight between diagonal measures, LF + RR /= Constant

Rule 4 - Adjusting any one wheel weight will change all wheel weights

Quoted from here- http://www.elephantracing.com/techto...nerbalance.htm

Scale the car as its going to be raced. Simple enough. Yes friction from the shocks will afffect corner weights but will not affect left or rear weight.

To do it right is simple. First you take all 4 of your corner weights and total them. Write that down. then take your left front and left rear weights and total them. Then take that total and divide it by the total vehicle weight. That is your left side percentage. Ideal for anything other than oval is 50%. Then take your left rear and right rear and total them. Divide that total by your total weight and you have the rear percentage. That will vary depending on the car, track conditions and driver preference. Worry about seperate wheel weights later
For example-

1500 gram buggy.
Lf 250g RF 275G
LR 500G RR 475G

Left side total 250+500 750G. 750 divided into 1500 total, 0.5 which is 50%
Left rear + right rear 975G. Divide that into the 1500 total is o.65 which is 65%.
Those are the first two things you look at before you worry about individual corner weights.
The only way to change those percents is to move weight. lead, battery esc and so on.

Lets say you crank on the collars and come up with this
LF 212 RF 313
LR 538 RR 427

Ovbiously corner weights are way off. If you check the percents however-
Left 212+538= 750. 750/1500=50%
Rear 538+427=975. 975/1500=65%
They are still the same. Where you place or move weight will affect rear and lefr/right at the same time. You have to look at the whole picture when making adjustments and it will go easier.

After you get the desired rear weight and your left/right set where you want then its time to look at corner weights. Keep in mind that if your not 50/50 left/right you will not get both sides even. by that I mean you might get the fronts even but the rears will be heavier on one side. Only way to get the fronts and rears matched side to side is to be 50/50. personally I would try to get the rear tires as even as possible. If one rear tire is heavier it will turn easier one way than the other. it will be more consistent if they are even.
Also check your shocks before you start. make sure they are the same length and have the same amount of rebound. If you know they are even before you start then theres no need to take it apart after you get it set and do it again.

Nick

I've got an idea Marcus. Figure out your center of gravity front to rear. Then place a point directly in the center of the vehicle. Now using this point, bolt the whole car to a tire balancer and spin the hell out of it. Wherever it tells you to add weight, go ahead and place the weight there. I have just created a new balancing method for rc cars!

VERY good information and i am not arguing that point, my argument is the inconsistency of oil filled shocks and the tendency for them to change. what you are missing is that fact that what happens if for some reason you MUST add weight (ROAR spec etc etc)where do you put the weight? Your technique is the proper way of doing it . but as we all know if a fly lands on one of your shock towers ALL of your readings will be off. the point of me making these solid shocks is just to WEIGHT BALANCE the chassis and nothing more, i realize that even after performing this act the shock collars will still need to be adjusted but if i am at 100% balance with no shocks, put the shocks on(with exact collar settings) and it is all over the place dont you agree that there is something amiss. having to turn a collar 2 turns to correct something that was perfect with them tells me that on that shock something is not right, be it stiction, rebound, bad spring etc etc
Fred has alot of experience with road racing so dont underestimate his opinions as im pretty sure he can balance a car, instead of quoting from someone elses information he has his own experience in 1:1 as do I. there are more than one way to skin a cat and i can find articles counteracting everything you said although i agree with the technique.

you and i both know that it is not easy to get the EXACT amount of rebound in all four shocks no matter how good you are. so much that i no longer even try! zero rebound in all of them and use RCshox for accurate rebound!




may work, may not but will know as i am playing with them right now!
let me also add this, since we are adjusting RC cars we have the luxury of putting weight virtually anywhere we want but in a real car you cant so therefore some things are not the same with scaling RC cars.......

Great discussion

#1 I could really care less how the pro's balance their cars.

#2 Yes i'm a nit-picky bastard that wants to spend lots of time squeezing
every 1/10th of an oz. of my vehicle (where necessary)and 1/10th of a
second off my lap times.

#3 If I just settled for mediocre, and good enough, I would stick to golf
instead of racing.

#4 NEVER trust doubters opinions on the internet. Find out for yourself
(if it's affordable to do, and this is.)

#5 I love discovering and working on new and creative projects to find
out whether they work or not. It's how I'm built.

#6 if this idea works for someone other than me(it should)then we all
benefit. If not, oh well...move on to the next idea or project.

#7 we're here to learn. Part of that is in trying and testing new ideas
(scientific method).