Stock motor confusion!
10-05-2004, 07:40 AM
#17
Originally posted by TexRacer
Was it for a T4 or a XXXT?
Was it for a T4 or a XXXT?
It's been pretty sturdy so far. Let me tell you, it's been crashed... A LOT.
The only major damage was when my driver hit a pipe so hard at the end of the straightaway that he tore the left rear hinge pin out of the carbon composite holder. This also bent the drive shaft.
It was one of those crashes that you say "Whoa!" at.
edit: fixed spelling error.
Last edited by Rysuleod; 10-06-2004 at 05:22 PM.
10-05-2004, 08:58 AM
#18
Hehe well..unfortunately, nothing can fix that problem..
What are you geared at? In an MF2, I'd start with 19/86 and work your way from there.
What are you geared at? In an MF2, I'd start with 19/86 and work your way from there.
10-05-2004, 12:44 PM
#19
I was using a 17 and a 19 tooth pinion with the default 86 tooth spur.
The reason I started this thread is because I was having odd results with the EPIC motor. I started with a 17 tooth gear and we were running quite a while on brand new 3300 matched batteries. I don't know if it was undergeared, but we were lasting much longer (battery life) than others testing their vehicles that day. I'm not sure if we were running too long on one pack and overheating the motor, or maybe we were way undergeared. I know battery life has vastly improved since I stopped racing my RC10 about 12 years ago with 1500's so I'm learning all over again. We basically drove/tested till the battieries gave out.
The odd thing is that when we switched to the 19 tooth for the last run, we seemed noticably and significantly slower. I thought it might have been the driver's inexperience so I took the wheel and I thought it felt way too sluggish for only a 2 tooth difference in gearing. At this point I began to wonder if the motor was dying on me.
I had been putting a tiny amount of oil on the bushing and after our longer than average runs the motor seemed like it was so hot it was cooking off the oil (Stinky!). After the last run the motor was literally smoking slightly. I am not sure but it's possible we killed the motor on the last run.
The new P2K2 is installed and ready to go. Hopefully the weirdness with the perceived speed loss on our last run was related to the Epic motor and not something else.
The only other adjustment I'm planning to make is to switch the pre-programmed mode on the Novak GT7 from default to mode 6. I think Mode 5 is default and they recommend mode 6 for stock motors. As a typical male I haven't read all the directions for the speed control yet. I have to have something to do at work after all!
FYI- Our gear:
Losi XXXT - MF2
Competition electronics Pit Bull Charger
SMC 3300 matched batteries.
Epic Binary2 Pro Stock - Potentially dead
Trinity P2K2 - new
Airtronics Mx-3S
Novak GT7
(1) old, used, ex-racer, pit man
(1) inexperienced driver with an attraction to cement walls.
The reason I started this thread is because I was having odd results with the EPIC motor. I started with a 17 tooth gear and we were running quite a while on brand new 3300 matched batteries. I don't know if it was undergeared, but we were lasting much longer (battery life) than others testing their vehicles that day. I'm not sure if we were running too long on one pack and overheating the motor, or maybe we were way undergeared. I know battery life has vastly improved since I stopped racing my RC10 about 12 years ago with 1500's so I'm learning all over again. We basically drove/tested till the battieries gave out.
The odd thing is that when we switched to the 19 tooth for the last run, we seemed noticably and significantly slower. I thought it might have been the driver's inexperience so I took the wheel and I thought it felt way too sluggish for only a 2 tooth difference in gearing. At this point I began to wonder if the motor was dying on me.
I had been putting a tiny amount of oil on the bushing and after our longer than average runs the motor seemed like it was so hot it was cooking off the oil (Stinky!). After the last run the motor was literally smoking slightly. I am not sure but it's possible we killed the motor on the last run.
The new P2K2 is installed and ready to go. Hopefully the weirdness with the perceived speed loss on our last run was related to the Epic motor and not something else.
The only other adjustment I'm planning to make is to switch the pre-programmed mode on the Novak GT7 from default to mode 6. I think Mode 5 is default and they recommend mode 6 for stock motors. As a typical male I haven't read all the directions for the speed control yet. I have to have something to do at work after all!
FYI- Our gear:
Losi XXXT - MF2
Competition electronics Pit Bull Charger
SMC 3300 matched batteries.
Epic Binary2 Pro Stock - Potentially dead
Trinity P2K2 - new
Airtronics Mx-3S
Novak GT7
(1) old, used, ex-racer, pit man
(1) inexperienced driver with an attraction to cement walls.
10-05-2004, 07:02 PM
#22
1 Reason-THEY DONT CARE and never have.
Corally,Yokomo(Reedy),Top(Orion,Peak),Atlas(Integy ) all use a very high quality magnet and are assembled at the same place.
Trinity magnets have always sucked but actually help them with RPM at times due to the design.Just doesnt last is the problem.
Rysuleod-I will bring a motor for you and your Im guessing son to PRACTICE with on Saturday.Email me at [email protected] and I will meet up with you Saturday and GIVE you a motor.
I try to explain to guys to always have a practice motor for weekend racing.Taking a brand new trinity motor and running it for 8-15 minutes in a offroad car only destroy's the motor.Plus it mistrains your actual racing packs.
The ideal situation if the person could would be to have strickly practice packs and then 2-4 race packs.
The practice packs would be packs you could run for as long as you like while your training your racing packs to be the BEST they can be over a 5 minute race period.
Since that motor you guys got is brand new I would keep it strickly for racing.Expecially being he is so new and wouldnt notice much of a difference speed wise nor benefit from it I will bring you a practice motor to practice with.
THIS SATURDAY:
I would practice with that motor with a 86/18 and then a 19 to see which gear you like better only running 2-3 minutes on each pinion to see which one is best on the motor.Then I would take that motor out and run the practice motor I will be bringing.Right now being in rookie class I would worry more about learning the track and setup than actual speed.Winning isnt as fun if you dont really understand the car or what it does.Driving is 70% or more of winning but it helps when you know whats going on.This is how the BETTER DRIVERS advance and do as well as they do is taking the time to actually LEARN the car than to keep sharing setup tips with everyone not knowing what simple camber or toe in would do.What moving a shock in or out would do.What changing pistons would do and so on.
EMail me and I will bring you guys a nice motor to practice with that speed wise wont be far off what your running.
Goodluck at the races Saturday.I wont be racing due to the RedRiver Shootout but will be up there for a bit.
Les
Corally,Yokomo(Reedy),Top(Orion,Peak),Atlas(Integy ) all use a very high quality magnet and are assembled at the same place.
Trinity magnets have always sucked but actually help them with RPM at times due to the design.Just doesnt last is the problem.
Rysuleod-I will bring a motor for you and your Im guessing son to PRACTICE with on Saturday.Email me at [email protected] and I will meet up with you Saturday and GIVE you a motor.
I try to explain to guys to always have a practice motor for weekend racing.Taking a brand new trinity motor and running it for 8-15 minutes in a offroad car only destroy's the motor.Plus it mistrains your actual racing packs.
The ideal situation if the person could would be to have strickly practice packs and then 2-4 race packs.
The practice packs would be packs you could run for as long as you like while your training your racing packs to be the BEST they can be over a 5 minute race period.
Since that motor you guys got is brand new I would keep it strickly for racing.Expecially being he is so new and wouldnt notice much of a difference speed wise nor benefit from it I will bring you a practice motor to practice with.
THIS SATURDAY:
I would practice with that motor with a 86/18 and then a 19 to see which gear you like better only running 2-3 minutes on each pinion to see which one is best on the motor.Then I would take that motor out and run the practice motor I will be bringing.Right now being in rookie class I would worry more about learning the track and setup than actual speed.Winning isnt as fun if you dont really understand the car or what it does.Driving is 70% or more of winning but it helps when you know whats going on.This is how the BETTER DRIVERS advance and do as well as they do is taking the time to actually LEARN the car than to keep sharing setup tips with everyone not knowing what simple camber or toe in would do.What moving a shock in or out would do.What changing pistons would do and so on.
EMail me and I will bring you guys a nice motor to practice with that speed wise wont be far off what your running.
Goodluck at the races Saturday.I wont be racing due to the RedRiver Shootout but will be up there for a bit.
Les
10-05-2004, 07:19 PM
#23
I know that their magnets give more torque....but if the combination of the best worlds would make for an amazing motor. Think of a P2K in a MVP can....can you say torque central?! or a MHP in a MVP can....Great combination of torque and top end. I don't konw what they're waiting for.
10-05-2004, 07:49 PM
#24
Until someone makes a motor that can compete..Trinity/EPIC has no reason to change their stockers.
10-06-2004, 05:20 PM
#25
Epic Binary2 Pro Stock motor update. It's dead Jim! <Bones voice>.
I must have gotten a dud motor. It could have been damaged during shipping or something. I took it apart after work today and some of the copper wiring was blackened. I can tell that the armiture was rubbing on the magnets a bit too.
I am pretty sure this was happening since the first run on the motor. This is probably also the reason it was running so super hot and stinking.
I didn't think to open it till today because I was an old school racer! <Begin grandpa voice> Back in my day we had closed endbells, and we LIKED it! We couldnt open 'em with fancy schmancy screws and we had to solder our own capacitors and schotsky diodes and we LIKED IT! You darn kids have it too easy these days! <end grandpa voice>
I'm sure I will be back with more questions soon. Thanks for all the information!
I must have gotten a dud motor. It could have been damaged during shipping or something. I took it apart after work today and some of the copper wiring was blackened. I can tell that the armiture was rubbing on the magnets a bit too.
I am pretty sure this was happening since the first run on the motor. This is probably also the reason it was running so super hot and stinking.
I didn't think to open it till today because I was an old school racer! <Begin grandpa voice> Back in my day we had closed endbells, and we LIKED it! We couldnt open 'em with fancy schmancy screws and we had to solder our own capacitors and schotsky diodes and we LIKED IT! You darn kids have it too easy these days! <end grandpa voice>
I'm sure I will be back with more questions soon. Thanks for all the information!
10-07-2004, 10:35 AM
#26
The armature windings were black because it was super hot and stinky, it was overgeared or the gear mesh was to tight, or something else could be a number of things, was binding check the whole car out before you cook another one.
10-07-2004, 11:11 AM
#27
I'm pretty sure nothing is binding and my gear mesh is okay. I always check the gear mesh before putting on the cover. The truck sounds okay when it runs, or it did anyway.
I have it set up so I can feel a tiny amount of play between the spur and pinion when I slightly rotate the spur gear.
How would the magnets have been scraped/scarred? Was is the destabilizing of the magnetic field from the burned section that caused the armiture to wobble?
I know we didn't overgear. If anything it was undergeared. I was using a 17 tooth pinion 86 spur. The users manual and other racers here say to start at 19 and go from there.
Maybe my slipper clutch isn't slipping and it's putting a strain on the motor. I didn't think of that before.
I have it set up so I can feel a tiny amount of play between the spur and pinion when I slightly rotate the spur gear.
How would the magnets have been scraped/scarred? Was is the destabilizing of the magnetic field from the burned section that caused the armiture to wobble?
I know we didn't overgear. If anything it was undergeared. I was using a 17 tooth pinion 86 spur. The users manual and other racers here say to start at 19 and go from there.
Maybe my slipper clutch isn't slipping and it's putting a strain on the motor. I didn't think of that before.
10-07-2004, 11:17 AM
#28
The slipper clutch won't strain the motor. The tires will spin before the motor gets strained.
Is the motor shaft bent? Are the bushings damaged anyway? Something in the endbell and bearings would have to be crooked for the armature to hit the magnets.
I highly doubt it was something binding or gear mesh that caused the motor to burn up. It had something to do with the armature not spinning correctly, and the wires are blackened no doubt from shorting out or getting very hot because of this.
Is the motor shaft bent? Are the bushings damaged anyway? Something in the endbell and bearings would have to be crooked for the armature to hit the magnets.
I highly doubt it was something binding or gear mesh that caused the motor to burn up. It had something to do with the armature not spinning correctly, and the wires are blackened no doubt from shorting out or getting very hot because of this.
10-07-2004, 11:55 AM
#29
I'd have to check when I get home if it's bent. It's probably not worth wasting the time though. I'm pretty sure it's a goner. I never opened or tweaked the motor until after it looked dead. See my post above as to why hehe.
I don't know if this info got lost in my other long replies, but I vividly remember after the first run we had, the motor was slightly emitting the burned electric smell. Whatever problem we had, we had it from run #1.
Saturday is the big test. If the new motor craps out on me we will know I am a doof and did something wrong. If it works I will chalk it up to a $27.00 (price of the epic motor I think) learning experience about RPM versus torque motors.
I don't know if this info got lost in my other long replies, but I vividly remember after the first run we had, the motor was slightly emitting the burned electric smell. Whatever problem we had, we had it from run #1.
Saturday is the big test. If the new motor craps out on me we will know I am a doof and did something wrong. If it works I will chalk it up to a $27.00 (price of the epic motor I think) learning experience about RPM versus torque motors.
10-07-2004, 01:21 PM
#30
How about a body clip or staple in the motor can, i have had it happen maybe a dozen times & that will cook a motor if it gets in the wrong place.