1LikesTLR 22 Racing Buggy Thread
05-26-2011, 09:22 AM
#7066
I have a 2mm shim on the hub side and a 1mm on the rear block like the evens setup.....
If a add another shim what would that do?
05-26-2011, 10:16 AM
#7067
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
05-26-2011, 10:43 AM
#7068
I solemly swear to tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me god:
Had the Dustin Evans setup on it with a shorty lipo and the car has gobs of steering. Id say the thing could probably turn under any other buggy under power. On power it definitely has a push to it, but its a controlled push, and seems fast through the corners. The car jumps way better than my b4.1 and doesn't chassis slap like it either. The big bores really do their job. It was definitely awkward using a foreign radio and brake epa was a little high for my liking, and I might even turn down the steering epa it has so much throw, but overall I really enjoyed the thing. My b4.1 is pretty dialed right now, and I'm pretty committed to the platform, but if I can gather some extra cash I could see a 22 in my future. The build quality is definitely of high quality, and much more so than the sloppy sally b4, but id have to drive it for a week with my own equipment, settings and setup tweaks to really get a feel for the thing. I might have to wait it out and see what ae brings to the table
P.s. I have a xp ds1313 in my b4.1 and I think the 22 I drove had a savox 1257 or 1258. Is the .06-.07 in speed difference going to be noticeable?
Had the Dustin Evans setup on it with a shorty lipo and the car has gobs of steering. Id say the thing could probably turn under any other buggy under power. On power it definitely has a push to it, but its a controlled push, and seems fast through the corners. The car jumps way better than my b4.1 and doesn't chassis slap like it either. The big bores really do their job. It was definitely awkward using a foreign radio and brake epa was a little high for my liking, and I might even turn down the steering epa it has so much throw, but overall I really enjoyed the thing. My b4.1 is pretty dialed right now, and I'm pretty committed to the platform, but if I can gather some extra cash I could see a 22 in my future. The build quality is definitely of high quality, and much more so than the sloppy sally b4, but id have to drive it for a week with my own equipment, settings and setup tweaks to really get a feel for the thing. I might have to wait it out and see what ae brings to the table
P.s. I have a xp ds1313 in my b4.1 and I think the 22 I drove had a savox 1257 or 1258. Is the .06-.07 in speed difference going to be noticeable?
Last edited by mellow; 05-26-2011 at 11:11 AM.
05-26-2011, 11:49 AM
#7069
If you add another shim to the hub, it will slightly raise your roll center. If you add a shim to the inner block ballstud, it will slightly lower your roll center.
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
Well said..... I couldnt of said it better myself
05-26-2011, 12:01 PM
#7070
If you add another shim to the hub, it will slightly raise your roll center. If you add a shim to the inner block ballstud, it will slightly lower your roll center.
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
Sweet thanks for the help guys!
05-26-2011, 12:30 PM
#7073
You're welcome.. and remember, you get the same but opposite "direction" of traction shift, when you apply the same roll center changes to the front... A lower front roll center will provide mover overall grip at the front (more steering), and therefor by comparison, less in the rear.
So i often get asked, "then why not lower the roll center front and back as much as possible all the time for maximum traction?". And there are two answers really.
1) it really depends on how much grip your track has.
2) The farther the car rolls, the farther the car has to UN-roll as well, which makes the car slower in transitions
so let's explore #1
No matter what material your track is made out of, the ultimate goal is to run the fastest lap time you can, right? So lets say for example that you are on a really slippery surface. The extra grip you get from a very very low roll center (lots of roll, and therefor, lots of tire load), might benefit your lap times more than the "laziness" induced by a low roll center hurts your lap time, giving you an overall faster lap.... So in that case, a super low roll center becomes the fast way around the track.
Lets say you are on a very high grip track, like slicks on tacky clay (my track) or carpet. The opposite may give you better lap times. With a TON of natural tire grip, if you run a low roll center, you may develop TOO much traction, and may just end up traction rolling every time you take a corner. Being on your lid is never the fast way around the track. So strategically raising your roll center both front and back to keep tire load off your outside tires (and ON your inside tires), is a way to fine tune how much side traction you develop in a corner. The fastest way around the track will usually be the most roll you can get, without having to fight traction rolling.
On a high traction carpet track, you can run a VERY high roll center, as you don't need to load the tires at all to get the proper amount of traction... the benefit of a high roll center, (and therefor a car that doesn't roll much) is a car that can transition from right to left very quickly, and very stablely. (is that a word?)
The other thing to keep in mind, is running a lower or higher roll center on one end of the car compared to the other. This is used to bias traction towards one end of the car. So if you are looking for a little more steering, and you are already using ideal tires/inserts/camber and weight distribution, running a lower roll center in front (compared to rear) will give more steering, and less rear traction, and vice-versa if you run a lower rear roll center, than the front.
You can also induce more or less roll by how stiff of a spring and oil you are using in your dampers. The benefit of starting will roll center, is that roll center changes wont change how the car jumps, lands, and goes over bumps. So for example, lets say you wanted more roll... if you change to really soft springs and oil, you WILL get more roll, but it might adversely affect the car over bumps, or landing large jumps... where as roll center changes will not.
I hope that makes sense!
-cpt.
So i often get asked, "then why not lower the roll center front and back as much as possible all the time for maximum traction?". And there are two answers really.
1) it really depends on how much grip your track has.
2) The farther the car rolls, the farther the car has to UN-roll as well, which makes the car slower in transitions
so let's explore #1
No matter what material your track is made out of, the ultimate goal is to run the fastest lap time you can, right? So lets say for example that you are on a really slippery surface. The extra grip you get from a very very low roll center (lots of roll, and therefor, lots of tire load), might benefit your lap times more than the "laziness" induced by a low roll center hurts your lap time, giving you an overall faster lap.... So in that case, a super low roll center becomes the fast way around the track.
Lets say you are on a very high grip track, like slicks on tacky clay (my track) or carpet. The opposite may give you better lap times. With a TON of natural tire grip, if you run a low roll center, you may develop TOO much traction, and may just end up traction rolling every time you take a corner. Being on your lid is never the fast way around the track. So strategically raising your roll center both front and back to keep tire load off your outside tires (and ON your inside tires), is a way to fine tune how much side traction you develop in a corner. The fastest way around the track will usually be the most roll you can get, without having to fight traction rolling.
On a high traction carpet track, you can run a VERY high roll center, as you don't need to load the tires at all to get the proper amount of traction... the benefit of a high roll center, (and therefor a car that doesn't roll much) is a car that can transition from right to left very quickly, and very stablely. (is that a word?)
The other thing to keep in mind, is running a lower or higher roll center on one end of the car compared to the other. This is used to bias traction towards one end of the car. So if you are looking for a little more steering, and you are already using ideal tires/inserts/camber and weight distribution, running a lower roll center in front (compared to rear) will give more steering, and less rear traction, and vice-versa if you run a lower rear roll center, than the front.
You can also induce more or less roll by how stiff of a spring and oil you are using in your dampers. The benefit of starting will roll center, is that roll center changes wont change how the car jumps, lands, and goes over bumps. So for example, lets say you wanted more roll... if you change to really soft springs and oil, you WILL get more roll, but it might adversely affect the car over bumps, or landing large jumps... where as roll center changes will not.
I hope that makes sense!
-cpt.
Last edited by Cpt.America; 05-26-2011 at 02:27 PM.
05-26-2011, 12:59 PM
#7074
Question.
I know about the low and high roll center rear blocks but whit is the difference in these?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
I know about the low and high roll center rear blocks but whit is the difference in these?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
05-26-2011, 01:40 PM
#7075
Question.
I know about the low and high roll center rear blocks but whit is the difference in these?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
I know about the low and high roll center rear blocks but whit is the difference in these?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ing-Set-TLR-22
05-26-2011, 03:22 PM
#7079
If you add another shim to the hub, it will slightly raise your roll center. If you add a shim to the inner block ballstud, it will slightly lower your roll center.
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
A lower roll center = more roll = more tire load while cornering = more traction on that end of the car.
So if you wanted more rear traction and less steering through a corner, you would add a washer to the inner bulkhead. If you wanted less rear traction and more steering, you would add a washer to the hub.
05-26-2011, 03:50 PM
#7080
Tech Adept
@Cpt.America is to 99% right! Good infos and answers here, good job! 
The only thing I would say other than you is, that the rollcenter changes also the handling over bumps. With a low rollcenter (and a big roll moment), a car will roll more from left to right over bumps, and it CAN roll over more easy on the roof!
The only thing I would say other than you is, that the rollcenter changes also the handling over bumps. With a low rollcenter (and a big roll moment), a car will roll more from left to right over bumps, and it CAN roll over more easy on the roof!