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Old 04-10-2008, 08:46 AM   #46
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This should make going to 3S in 1/10th scale a bit easy for the guys who like them in a hard plastic case: http://www.teamorion.com/Products/SL...00+3+Cell+SLPB. Price wise, you won't need to spend a ton of money. Most of you who do use lipo now have a charger that can charge 3S without an issue. You could go with a 2200-3200mAh packs and they are not that expensive. The 3S packs will not be dumping massive amounts of AMPs and they will last longer.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:40 AM   #47
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Quote:
By stallard
In 1:10 there is no need or incentive to go HV, cars are too fast with current setups, current setups are cheaper!!! and HV is not legal.
Its not about speed, its a different way to get the same thing, more fun. And Why do you keep reminding me that it's not legal? The same argument was true for brushless two years ago, but someone showed its advantage and now where is it? In the forefront of the electric scene. I never once said this was legal, or should be. I just showed my experiment, that pertains to the subject. Our discussion has gone off topic a bit, so i'll say this, This wasn't meant to turn your world upside down. I added my experience to the pretaining subject, But i didn't expect to get blasted for just a discussion. I usually don't comment on these discussions, for this reason. The guy seemed to really be intrested (dgaumond) so i added. I plan no more comments about statements from stallard, however any opinions or questions from others will be respectfully answered

ok off the soapbox
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Old 04-10-2008, 11:55 AM   #48
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Personally I would like to see some race data from guys who have ran both a 2S lipo in race conditions as well as a 3S lipo in race conditions.

Combine the info with some sort of gearing / mph spreadsheet so it can be broken down as far as what motor combined with what battery pack yields X speed, etc.

After that, determine is there a real world benefit. Reason I say that is because do we increase race costs by going from 2S - 3S lipo, but, dropping to a lower KV motor.

Seems the KV doesn't matter on a motor with regards to price at all. Various faster or slower brushless motors seem to all cost about the same.

If you could get an equal cost between a 3S lipo set and X brushless motor setup compared to a 2S lipo setup and Y brushless motor setup, but get better reliability, cooler temps, and ultimately a safer setup, who knows, may be worth a look.
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Old 04-10-2008, 04:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by crazyjr View Post
I showed my setup because the thread was asking why, not because it was cheap. You are right, its expensive to start, But in the long run it should be cheaper. The parts are higher quality (No offence castle) and the quality is what makes them cheaper in the long run. I understand that cost (now more than ever) is a consideration, but the question was for why only 7volts. I just wanted to show my experiment for the HV argument, I never meant it to be an argument.


I understand why you posted your setup, I think it is pretty cool but in a previous post you said
"Most of us are trying to lower the cost of electric RC. "

I just pointed out that your setup sure doesn't prove that point.

Then you say it because the system is so much better than a CC system it will last longer and thus be cheaper.

You do realize that casltle makes one of the toughest systems made (Many at my local track have been running for 2+ years with no problems + you have at least 3 of their setups) and if you have a problem their customer service is second to none + if you burn it up all on your own the have a flat rate replacment of $50 for a mamba max.
That seems like a pretty long lasting and cheap setup to me.

Next you say
"but the question was for why only 7volts."

Yes it is but you never answered that question you just kept posting how HV was better.


I also seem to remember someone saying this about me.

"Lutach, I would have expected this argument from a smoker, Not an electric guy. Either he is a kid that can't afford more than the castle setup (though he did drop 120.00 on a trackpower lipo) Or someone either fresh from brushed or Nitro and hasn't dug deep enough to see the light beyond Castle."

When you assume you make a ass out of you and me!!!

As I stated before I have been in this hobby a long time. I was flying large scale electrics at my club before anyone else and have a lot of experiance with HV setups in them. I am also in the process of converting a 1/8 buggy into electric and I am using a HV setup. I can't afford everything I want but I do OK, and have a couple novak setups, 4 track power packs a FT T4, BJ4, RC10GT2, Revo, lots of planes, a few boats and also collect vintage RC cars!!!

If you are looking for some trully cheap stuff for HV and coversion RC stuff try www.hobbycity.com they have some great deals on lipos, motors and esc's.

I was not looking for an argument but if you state things that seem to be false or misleading don't be surprized when people call you on them.


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Old 04-10-2008, 06:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stallard View Post
I understand why you posted your setup, I think it is pretty cool but in a previous post you said
"Most of us are trying to lower the cost of electric RC. "

I just pointed out that your setup sure doesn't prove that point.

Then you say it because the system is so much better than a CC system it will last longer and thus be cheaper.

You do realize that casltle makes one of the toughest systems made (Many at my local track have been running for 2+ years with no problems + you have at least 3 of their setups) and if you have a problem their customer service is second to none + if you burn it up all on your own the have a flat rate replacment of $50 for a mamba max.
That seems like a pretty long lasting and cheap setup to me.

Next you say
"but the question was for why only 7volts."

Yes it is but you never answered that question you just kept posting how HV was better.


I also seem to remember someone saying this about me.

"Lutach, I would have expected this argument from a smoker, Not an electric guy. Either he is a kid that can't afford more than the castle setup (though he did drop 120.00 on a trackpower lipo) Or someone either fresh from brushed or Nitro and hasn't dug deep enough to see the light beyond Castle."

When you assume you make a ass out of you and me!!!

As I stated before I have been in this hobby a long time. I was flying large scale electrics at my club before anyone else and have a lot of experiance with HV setups in them. I am also in the process of converting a 1/8 buggy into electric and I am using a HV setup. I can't afford everything I want but I do OK, and have a couple novak setups, 4 track power packs a FT T4, BJ4, RC10GT2, Revo, lots of planes, a few boats and also collect vintage RC cars!!!

If you are looking for some trully cheap stuff for HV and coversion RC stuff try www.hobbycity.com they have some great deals on lipos, motors and esc's.

I was not looking for an argument but if you state things that seem to be false or misleading don't be surprized when people call you on them.


Lockhart
I said i wouldn't comment on your responces, But there is one thing i got to say. I been talking to a track mate of yours in PM over the last night or two, dgaumond and he told me you and i are the same age and in the hobby for about the same time, though you may have a couple more years of experience. For the kid comment, I apologize

I know how tough the Mamba max is, I run two on fegaio's (7 and 9XL) in MT's with 5s lipo's. I been to the edge and back, with them and both still run great. I just wanted the quark, Because they are warrantied to 6s and before the 3.04 update and the 1.17 MM update, the quark was a bit better in smoothness

The idea of saving money goes to warranty as well, If i run the MM at 5s and blow it, it costs 50.00 and shipping both ways to replace. the quark will be replaced free and shipping back to me is free.

I understand the 2s thing, i have them. You are right about the 400.00 setup, its not for everyone, but i figure "Buy Quality and buy warranty, or buy twice". I'm going back to RC-Monster, The racers here know everything and don't need honest input
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Old 04-10-2008, 07:08 PM   #51
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Interesting discussion. But the improved efficiency isn't all that great in practice for 1/10 scale. HV would of course be theoretically somewhat more efficient for the average guy done correctly, but it wouldn't reduce the load on the battery much, well, assuming the same size overall pack. Yes, the amps go down, but now each cell is smaller, and thus has less current capability. The slight improvement in efficiency which would help the battery some would be offset to some degree by the reduced packaging efficiency of the battery with more cells/connections. So you are pretty much back to where you started for the battery.

Same principle applies to some degree to the motor wiring. To make the speed reasonable would require higher turn motors if I'm not mistaken. That probably means smaller wires that have less current capablity. And thus offsetting some of the efficiency increase and possible heat reduction.

BTW, most guys don't use 3.5 motors, so the excessive heat only impacts the fringe. And if we go to higher volts, with new less current capable escs, motors, and wiring, then the guys pushing the edge will still be in the same boat.

You say your stuff runs real cool, I don't doubt that a bit. So does my 2s brushless stuff, hardly gets warm at all, battery, motor and ESC.

As far as stressed out electronics, I still race one ESC that is nearly 20 years old, was 3 until recently when I started getting into brushless, with no issues at all. I have 7 in total that are 17+ years old, no issues.

And also consider safety, and the fact that kids, big & little, play with these things. A critical consideration as you go way up in voltage, especially with DC systems.

Once again, good Engineering requires balancing many factors. You have a valid theorectical point, but are focused on only one factor of a complex equation. Other factors need to be considered in the real world.

That said, enjoy your setups, just don't expect everybody to join in.
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:04 PM   #52
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I like popularity cause there is always a resource of information among the racers. That and if i need to borrow a motor from a bud, he got the same stuff.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:13 PM   #53
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Without getting in the middle of anything:

The establishment is not going to change any time soon. For 1/10 racing, what we have works and it IS the way it IS.

I think arguing about whether higher voltage is better... is wasted breath. It doesn't matter for the mainstream hobby, racing or bashing.

IF we could start over from scratch and re-invent the hobby...
then yes we could argue about voltage and it would make sense to change things: higher voltage and smaller lighter motors... I think we would be running 380 size motors for 1/10 for example because they would provide plenty of power. We wouldn't need the bigger 540 that we did with the crappy batteries and motors from 20 years ago.

What we could talk about is the direction and future of 1/8 type electrics. That (1/8 high voltage) might someday trickle down to the 1/10 stuff.... but let's not get carried away thinking we will see 24 or 36v systems become the standard. At least not in 1/10...
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:14 AM   #54
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what if we used 4 or 6 pole rotor instead of 2 poles, does that not slow down RPM/Volt in the same motor?
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:45 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UK.hardcore View Post
what if we used 4 or 6 pole rotor instead of 2 poles, does that not slow down RPM/Volt in the same motor?
not really possible as far as i know, as the rotor is a single peice of ferrite or whatever. with brushed motors you can have more magnets as they are on the outside of the can. but with a brushless you would have some freaky effects around the shaft where 2/3 magnetic feilds intersect.
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