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Old 01-11-2008, 10:52 AM   #91
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I agree. if you open up the rules for brushed to allow them more room in there development, it probably could settle issues people have when running the two together. Bearings is a big one.

I remember the late Big Jim telling me that if the cuffs weren't on stock motors, they could really do some crazy things that would vastly improve motor life and performance.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:08 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Exterminator View Post
Stock motor idea,

Instead of changing or limiting the current 13.5 brushless stock. How about opening the rules on the brushed motors to being able to use bearings and neo magnets like the brushless can's. Also allow some slack in the wire size and rotor size for a short term development stage so that the brushed motors can compete head to head with the brushless.

The current rules for brushed motors has limited them to developing motors that are capable of running as long and fast as brushless.

The brushless motors had free and open rules therefor didn't have the restrictions placed on brushed motors other than the Can has to be the same size on the outside.

Open the rules and you might see some development on the brushed motor side that will put a end to the brushless/brushed motor debate.
Brushed motors will always be inferior to BL due to the fact that brushes cause so much frictional heat, loss and maintnence. The reason that nobody has complained much about brushed stock motors having bushings is the rest of the motor doesn't last long enough for the bushings to wear out.

I have been saying it from the start: put brushed stuff and brushless stuff on the track together and let the superior technology win. There is no use in trying to make them "even".
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:37 AM   #93
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Pretty much the same although brushless is smoother and more powerful.
You gota have speed to win a race and brushed does seem faster in that
department, but I'm just experimenting with brushless It's just hard to say
which is better.
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:54 PM   #94
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1. allow advance timing of 27T motors?
(i think trinity used to sell a 27T stock that had adjustable timing)

2. allow 23T jap-spec stock brushed motors too
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Old 01-11-2008, 08:38 PM   #95
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I just bought a GTB and 13.5 and haven't raced them yet, though it's considered stock at my local track. ROAR followed the marketplace on rebuildable stock motors, I think (hope) it'll do the same for brushless.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:27 PM   #96
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Bearings in a brushed stock motor? If someone thinks they can actually notice the difference, be my guest. The only benefit is it will last longer (but the comm and magnets will be so fried it does not matter). I know this will probably catch me some steam from the diehard brushed drivers, but brushed motors are old technology. Something new has come along, why should we fear it? I think that there are still tradeoffs w/ the brushless vs. brushed. With a brushed stock motor I notice I can get my B4 to turn a little better (as well as the other guys at my track w/ B4's). I also feel like the Brushed has a little better topend. I still run a BL though, because most of the other guys have them, and because I dont have to mess with it. It lets me practice more, and wrench less. If brushed motor builders can make something that is as 'good', let them, otherwise, let the BL 13.5 become the staple in the stock class
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:57 AM   #97
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Quote:
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Bearings in a brushed stock motor? If someone thinks they can actually notice the difference, be my guest. The only benefit is it will last longer
Again I'm pointing out that one of the advantages to brushless is longer lasting. Bearings help in a stock brushed motor.

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(but the comm and magnets will be so fried it does not matter).
As I pointed out allow some use of neo magnets. And or open the rules up and let brushed develop 5 pole arms and you will see much less wear on comms and brushes.

Quote:
I know this will probably catch me some steam from the diehard brushed drivers, but brushed motors are old technology.
Yes they are old technology due to the fact that they had to develop within the rules. Brushless got the advantage of developing with NO rules. Therefor you now see Brushless stock motors with bearings and Neo magnets, sintered rotors. less wire than a brushed motor. All these things are advantages that the brushed motors were limited from using.


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Something new has come along, why should we fear it?
Something new would come along IF the rules were equal. Or if the brushless had the same limitations. IE. 27turns of wire, wet pressed magnets and bushings.

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I think that there are still tradeoffs w/ the brushless vs. brushed. With a brushed stock motor I notice I can get my B4 to turn a little better (as well as the other guys at my track w/ B4's). I also feel like the Brushed has a little better topend. I still run a BL though, because most of the other guys have them, and because I dont have to mess with it. It lets me practice more, and wrench less. If brushed motor builders can make something that is as 'good', let them, otherwise, let the BL 13.5 become the staple in the stock class
Don't get me wrong I am not against brushless motors. My problem is the limitations that has been placed on brush motor development.
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Old 01-12-2008, 01:46 PM   #98
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As far as the stock class is involved, no matter how close in performance you could make a brushed motor it would still be 2 completely different motors. I do think it does suck for the people that would have to get new speedos and brushless motors to "compete" legally. In a class were the motors are set a certain # of turns and rules etc. I believe you cant have 2 completely different types regardless of performance, speaking from a "rules" point of view.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:25 PM   #99
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Why not just do away w/ stock & 19 turn class? You don't see 1/8th scales running .15,.18, & .21 sized classes.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:45 PM   #100
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Why not just do away w/ stock & 19 turn class? You don't see 1/8th scales running .15,.18, & .21 sized classes.
Not everyone wants or is ready to run mod.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:55 PM   #101
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Why not just do away w/ stock & 19 turn class? You don't see 1/8th scales running .15,.18, & .21 sized classes.
I was 19T only for 2 1/2 years until I got a B44 then I popped in brushless.
I ran an LRP brushed gravel hound and 19T team checkpoint Dark Impact.
Boy running the dark impact for a whole year really changed my skills dramatically.
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Old 01-12-2008, 03:10 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
Why not just do away w/ stock & 19 turn class? You don't see 1/8th scales running .15,.18, & .21 sized classes.
That's why nitro has a 1/10th class with smaller engines
So 1/10th
1/8th
Truggy,
still looks like three classes to me.
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Old 01-12-2008, 05:46 PM   #103
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That's why nitro has a 1/10th class with smaller engines
So 1/10th
1/8th
Truggy,
still looks like three classes to me.
Don't forget the crt.5.........1/12th scale.
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:55 PM   #104
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Ok, How about this.

Adopt the current brushless 13.5 as the stock motor. with the current motors that are available today. No changes may be made in the future.

Once everyone moves to this new standard there will be no more rules for the brushed motors to follow and they can then develop a better motor to compete again.

Then we can have this debate again in a few years.

Some of you may remember a guy named Big Jim. He was working on a better stock motor at one time for Team Brood. He had a arm that was more powerful but it ran into a problem with ROAR rules.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:47 AM   #105
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I wonder if that would actually work?
Is Team Brood still around?
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