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AE B6.2D / B6.2 Thread

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Old 10-30-2020, 02:57 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: AE B6.2D / B6.2 Thread
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Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday and Roger M.): What is the difference between 2 gears and 4 gears in the gear diff?
Please read these posts by Roger M. Maybe this has been answered but what are the little orings in diff do for tuning?
Please read these posts by Roger M.
Information on the rear axles and the different length dog bones from Roger M.

The 0 (option) and +2 (kit) axles are for using different length driveshafts with the different arm lengths

Kit +2 axles

73mm arms wih 67mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 69mm driveshafts

Option 0 axles

73mm arms with 65mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 67mm driveshafts

Why would you want to change the driveshaft length?
It is essentially to do with the fact that a drive joint will want to run straight under power and the position of that joint (the pin through the CVA joint into the axle).
The further that CVA joint pin is inboard of the lower hub hingepin (assuming you're running fairly typical outer link positions) the more bind you will generate in the suspension as the drive joint tried to straighten under power, this extra binding will 'stiffen' the suspension as it adds load on top of that from the weight transfer on the car.
Conversely the the nearer the CVA joint pin is to lower hub hinge pin the less bind and thus freer suspension movement.

When would you want to change this?

Basically on bumpy tracks, tracks with inconsistent grip or lower grip you want the suspension to be as free to move as possible so that you get the full benefit from the shock and roll centre tuning, also the car feels like it has more grip in the areas where you go on/off/on the gas.
To this end you will be running the longest possible dog bone you can for the arm length, hence why the +2 axles are in the kit.

On smooth super high grip tracks (EOS / CRC carpet for example) running a shorter dogbone will feel like it takes grip away from the rear as you get on power, aiding late corner rotation and reducing the on-power understeer that often plagues tight carpet tracks.
The only time I would run the 0 axles is with 67mm dogbones on 75mm arms and only then when I wish I could get let rear toe than the 1deg minimum we can get from the pills we have (actually I had custom pill made so I can get 0deg rear toe for those types of tracks but ...)

What are the handling differences between the 73 and 75mm arms.
Brief explanation from RogerM (thanks!)

The arm length effects the roll centre and more significantly the roll centre migration as the car rolls in the corners.

Shorter rear arms will encourage more tire loading so more grip as the car rolls, great for lower grip surfaces but on high grip surfaces they can stall the rotation mid corner costing corner speed. They can also make the car feel more reactive which is good when a low grip level makes the car feel less reactive so making it harder to place in technical sections.

Long rear arms the opposite, car will rotate more freely for more corner speed but won't generate as much side-bite so mid/late corner will be reduced. Make the car feel naturally lazier which is great on high grip surfaces as it makes the car easier to drive overall.

So the long Vs short rear arm is just like the flat Vs gullwing front arm, all about the grip level from the surface and how technical the track layout is.




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Old 01-09-2020, 01:58 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by big ted
Usually springs, chassis weights & swaybars too, no?
got plenty of rear springs, chassis couldnt get much heavier already as well with all the weights in it, so for me only a new swaybar potentially, if the 6.1 one won't fit
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Old 01-09-2020, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidka
I don't doubt it. I'm just pointing out that this appears to be an update to the car's existing target use case, not a change of direction. The talk here is that the "D" chassis hasn't changed, so perhaps the stand-up transmission is still an option though I hear Ray Munday, who races outdoors almost exclusively, says that the only tracks where he can go better with the standup are very low grip/dusty conditions.
.
Based on my experience... I raced the standup before and then the B6.1 ... and I was faster with the laydown than the standup in a wet track.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:37 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Phillip F
Based on my experience... I raced the standup before and then the B6.1 ... and I was faster with the laydown than the standup in a wet track.
I never raced them outdoors, but found the same on surfaces I run on.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:08 PM
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Last edited by zipperfoot; 02-11-2020 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 01-09-2020, 09:48 PM
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I saw the kits being built two weeks ago by two AE engineers at my local track. Complete with box and everything. So time line looks to be soon to hit shelves next few weeks.
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot
Do not have a B6.1 but follow the thread. It seems the 6.1 is a great buggy as is. After reading many of these posts I am beginning to wonder if the update was just an effort to sell more cars? Or is this really an improvement? Very curious to see what the consensus is after it is released.
Between the hubs and rear arms and other small changes, they may have been facing the decision to pay for new tooling of the old parts or do these updated parts and allow the old stuff to discontinue. While the changes are minor, I don't think they're small enough to call it an update to the 6.1 kit. That'd be difficult for the stores who sell the kits.

I'll guess that the carpet car is more different than the dirt car with the chassis and rear track width changes.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:47 AM
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Any other options parts I should definitely order with the kit such as aluminum servo horn? Brass bulkhead id assume?
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:30 AM
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Alloy servo horn improves durability, metal bulkheads are more for weight/tuning. The plastic one is usually strong enough. The arm or hub carrier is more likely to break first.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Davidka
metal bulkheads are more for weight/tuning. The plastic one is usually strong enough.
Maybe mine was a fluke but it was the first thing that broke on my T6.1 truck. For the little bit that it costs I think it's and upgrade I would do on day one even if breakage is extremely rare
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Old 01-10-2020, 02:43 PM
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Never had a problem with the bulkheads on dirt, but they break easily on carpet.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidka
Alloy servo horn improves durability, metal bulkheads are more for weight/tuning. The plastic one is usually strong enough. The arm or hub carrier is more likely to break first.
I race on an outdoor dirt track and the plastic bulkhead last for a few race days. I had to replace it with the aluminum bulkhead for durability purpose. But still, the aluminum bulkheads slowly bends after a while.... just like brass bulkhead (when I use to race in carpet).

The front bulkhead is one of those parts that needs to be replaced due to wear and tear. If its starts to bend binding the hinge pins....then you need to replace it.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:52 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot
Do not have a B6.1 but follow the thread. It seems the 6.1 is a great buggy as is. After reading many of these posts I am beginning to wonder if the update was just an effort to sell more cars? Or is this really an improvement? Very curious to see what the consensus is after it is released.
It's a .1 to a .2. Not a major overhaul like a B7. I think it's acceptable.
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:42 PM
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It’s all that it seems to be is marketing gimmicks especially with the new dirt car. Neither version appear to be the car that won the nationals this year at a most common type indoor clay track situation. Surprisingly no setup sheet released from the winning car of the nationals but there is for almost every other win last year
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:24 PM
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This seems like a win for AE and people that we're going to buy a new kit anyway. And for me to update my 6.1D for a good price. They produce a package that requires minimal investment on their part and sell it for the same price. They had to name it something different or replacement parts would be a nightmare for everybody. What else could they do? Call it a B6.1.1 or a B6.1 rev 2. If they called it a B6.1 2020 they really would have been ripped to shreds. I'm biased because I hate those slip in lower shock mounts. A gimmick in my opinion. I admit I've never broken an arm in that area. Just everywhere else
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Losiracer12
It’s all that it seems to be is marketing gimmicks especially with the new dirt car. Neither version appear to be the car that won the nationals this year at a most common type indoor clay track situation. Surprisingly no setup sheet released from the winning car of the nationals but there is for almost every other win last year
The championship winning setup might not be useful for club racers if he used one-off parts. Also, it's a handout tire race on a track prepped just for that race.

If you don't think the updates are meaningful, enjoy continuing to run your well developed kit. That's what I'll do (assuming I ever get back to racing this year..), until I break a rear hub or wear out my rear arms, then I'll get the new parts.
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