211LikesA CRY FOR HELP (RC tracks Closing)
04-18-2019, 05:06 PM
#241
Tech Prophet
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See that's killing RC right there. Move the tracks out to the country where land is cheap and plentiful. Where you can stretch out a little.
Real racetracks are learning quick. Race cars and motorcycles, means trucks and trailers. And more and more campgrounds added to those tracks.
Real racetracks are learning quick. Race cars and motorcycles, means trucks and trailers. And more and more campgrounds added to those tracks.
Locate a track too rurally, and don’t get the traffic. And it’s be shown that a small, loyal group of regulars can’t support one. Put track in high traffic, high population area and suffer high rental costs. WIndy City probably made more of a 2 hour kids birthday party, then 5-10 people practicing for the day. And with winter weather, outdoor tracks have such a limited time frame. And all but assuredly going to loose a few weekends to weather. Indoor is really only way to go.
Then there’s the club thing. While yes it can potentially give a group the ability to hold races. But with hourly rentals costs commonly in the $100 per hour range. How long or often can that really work for. And does it do anything to promote and even attempt to attract outsiders. Or even those that are in the hobby, like I was, but hadn’t crossed into racing.
04-18-2019, 09:33 PM
#242
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
THE PROBLEM:
I could be completely wrong here, but I'm going to out on a limb with an hypothesis. Essentially, there are three categories - retail hobby shops (LHSs), tracks, and shops with tracks. Starting with retail hobby shops they're having difficulty due to low profit margins, combined with increasing rent, increasing minimum wages, higher utility costs, etc. These have been endangered for quite a long time, and, for those that have survived, they've had to "branch out" (ie. carrying products outside the range they originally carried. Also, without tracks, these shops don't have the additional income provided by track fees...but, they also don't have the increased rent, utility costs, etc. I've seen more shops around the SF Bay Area go out of business over the past 20-30 years, including some very large shops, such as Franciscan Hobbies in SF, and D&J Hobby in San Jose. Both were incredibly large, and had been around for what seemed like eons (Franciscan had been open 68 years). Hobby shops without tracks are a dying breed, like record & video stores.
Next up, shops with tracks. The "problem" with these is that the higher rent & utility costs need to be 'offset' by track fees, as the already-low profit margin from the shop-end of the business would never be enough for the business to turn a profit, much less break even. Even worse, certain areas, such as Silicon Valley, home of Nor-Cal Hobbies, can have much, much higher rents than...say...Las Vegas, home to 702 Raceway. While Nor-Cal charges a $20 track fee, 702 Raceway can get by on a $15 track fee. Trying to determine how much to charge can be difficult - too high, and people won't come; too low, and you face losing money. Adding to the complicated calculations are the (usual) annual rent increases, increases in utility costs, and increases in minimum wage. Unfortunately, shop/track owners can be reluctant to increase the track fee, as, once again, they fear "chasing away" their customers. On top of that, they're still relying (to 'whatever' degree) on profits from the retail side of the business. The problem here is e-tailers...online-only businesses that, due to larger purchasing-power, they can sell at lower prices. Two major contributors to this atrocity are Amazon, and RCMart. Being that Amazon is my former employer, I'll refrain from saying anything further (as the saying goes, "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." Ok...I can't help myself...while Amazon has excellent customer service, the internal operations of the company are anything but "wonderful". Part of how they can afford to sell things at such low prices isn't just due to purchasing-power. It's also due to underpaying employees, purchasing cheap equipment, paying off state building inspectors, and-so-forth. RCMart, on the other hand, c an afford to sell low because they are Asian-based, purchase in quantity, and then cut out the distributors (ie. the "middlemen"). Whether operating similar to Amazon, or similar to RCMart, these types of businesses take away a considerable amount of sales from the LHSs, thus lowering their profits even further. The only way to "compensate" is to have a track that can really draw people in. Using Nor-Cal Hobbies, & Amain Hobbies (Chico, CA), as two examples, people are willing to drive hours to get to either location. Unless a shop w/ track has a track that's "good enough" to pull in a LOT of people, including those having to travel a distance, these shops/tracks are also likely to shut in the near future.
Lastly, you have the track-only locations. These are great...except for one major problem - as most national race rules state, to host any large-scale events (regional, national, etc), various parts need to be available on-site for purchase. This typically requires having a store, thus, track-only locations can be eliminated from these events, and the track loses a major money-source. Of course, temporary "pop-up shops" can be created, which would counter that problem. But, would this still create enough incoming cash to keep said tracks open? A good question, to which I have no answer. But, if that inflow of cash isn't enough, said tracks are also in danger of closing.
THE SOLUTION:
Obviously, cities getting involved has been mentioned...and, as good an idea it is, I just don't see it happening. If anyone has taken notice, there used to be a lot of city-owned skate parks, but they have been shutting down, as cities no longer want to deal with the legal liability involved. When it's city-owned property, even if "use at your own risk" signs are posted, the city/county is still legally liable. There have been numerous lawsuits about this, and, in most cases, the city/county is on the losing end. Because of this, I doubt most cities...especially those in highly-populated areas...are willing to come to our aid.
People have also suggested communities "pooling resources together", and, while I really like that idea, it's, unfortunately, somewhat unrealistic. In smaller communities, with a high "RC involvement" rate, it could be possible...especially in areas with lower cost-of-living. Unfortunately, the likelihood of this being successful in larger areas, such as the greater Los Angeles area, or the SF Bay Area, is highly doubtful. Due to very high real-estate values, little available land, city/county regulations, etc, I don't see this as a viable option. There's also the whole "volunteer" matter - people can be great at proposing working together, in their "of time", for no pay, but, when push-comes-to-shove, few of them actually show up. Part of this is because they'd rather be "playing on the track", than building the track.
There IS, however, one idea I haven't seen mentioned - an RC co-op business. I'm sure most here are familiar with businesses such as REI, Associated Press, Bob's Red Mill, Blue Diamond,Ocean Spray. These are all Co-ops, where ALL of the employees are partial owners (as are, in the case of REI, "members" (ie. the purchasing public who buys from REI)). In typical co-ops, while the profits could be shared among the owners/members, they are typically poured back into the business, so as to help the business grow. This is exactly how REI started. Initially, there was a single "store" (actually, a single shelf inside of another co-op store) in Seattle. Now, that "single shelf" has grown to over 150 stores in 36 states. While owner/members do receive a "rebate" each year, the great majority of the profits are poured back into the company. I wouldn't expect an RC co-op to grow to the size of any of these companies...but, operated the right way, it would be possible to operate a shop/track, host regional/national events...and, most importantly, have a great chance of survival. Additionally, as owners/members, people would have a more-involved interest in doing what's needed to help keep the business alive, as opposed to the "volunteer" suggestions previously made by others (there's nothing wrong with volunteering...my wife & I both do it). It's just a matter of getting enough people to come together, and being willing enough to pony up enough money to get it started. The more people willing to become owners/members, the less each person would need to come up with. Better yet, if you take an established business (especially one that's already on financially-shaky ground), there's less "work" needing to be done.
I could be completely wrong here, but I'm going to out on a limb with an hypothesis. Essentially, there are three categories - retail hobby shops (LHSs), tracks, and shops with tracks. Starting with retail hobby shops they're having difficulty due to low profit margins, combined with increasing rent, increasing minimum wages, higher utility costs, etc. These have been endangered for quite a long time, and, for those that have survived, they've had to "branch out" (ie. carrying products outside the range they originally carried. Also, without tracks, these shops don't have the additional income provided by track fees...but, they also don't have the increased rent, utility costs, etc. I've seen more shops around the SF Bay Area go out of business over the past 20-30 years, including some very large shops, such as Franciscan Hobbies in SF, and D&J Hobby in San Jose. Both were incredibly large, and had been around for what seemed like eons (Franciscan had been open 68 years). Hobby shops without tracks are a dying breed, like record & video stores.
Next up, shops with tracks. The "problem" with these is that the higher rent & utility costs need to be 'offset' by track fees, as the already-low profit margin from the shop-end of the business would never be enough for the business to turn a profit, much less break even. Even worse, certain areas, such as Silicon Valley, home of Nor-Cal Hobbies, can have much, much higher rents than...say...Las Vegas, home to 702 Raceway. While Nor-Cal charges a $20 track fee, 702 Raceway can get by on a $15 track fee. Trying to determine how much to charge can be difficult - too high, and people won't come; too low, and you face losing money. Adding to the complicated calculations are the (usual) annual rent increases, increases in utility costs, and increases in minimum wage. Unfortunately, shop/track owners can be reluctant to increase the track fee, as, once again, they fear "chasing away" their customers. On top of that, they're still relying (to 'whatever' degree) on profits from the retail side of the business. The problem here is e-tailers...online-only businesses that, due to larger purchasing-power, they can sell at lower prices. Two major contributors to this atrocity are Amazon, and RCMart. Being that Amazon is my former employer, I'll refrain from saying anything further (as the saying goes, "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." Ok...I can't help myself...while Amazon has excellent customer service, the internal operations of the company are anything but "wonderful". Part of how they can afford to sell things at such low prices isn't just due to purchasing-power. It's also due to underpaying employees, purchasing cheap equipment, paying off state building inspectors, and-so-forth. RCMart, on the other hand, c an afford to sell low because they are Asian-based, purchase in quantity, and then cut out the distributors (ie. the "middlemen"). Whether operating similar to Amazon, or similar to RCMart, these types of businesses take away a considerable amount of sales from the LHSs, thus lowering their profits even further. The only way to "compensate" is to have a track that can really draw people in. Using Nor-Cal Hobbies, & Amain Hobbies (Chico, CA), as two examples, people are willing to drive hours to get to either location. Unless a shop w/ track has a track that's "good enough" to pull in a LOT of people, including those having to travel a distance, these shops/tracks are also likely to shut in the near future.
Lastly, you have the track-only locations. These are great...except for one major problem - as most national race rules state, to host any large-scale events (regional, national, etc), various parts need to be available on-site for purchase. This typically requires having a store, thus, track-only locations can be eliminated from these events, and the track loses a major money-source. Of course, temporary "pop-up shops" can be created, which would counter that problem. But, would this still create enough incoming cash to keep said tracks open? A good question, to which I have no answer. But, if that inflow of cash isn't enough, said tracks are also in danger of closing.
THE SOLUTION:
Obviously, cities getting involved has been mentioned...and, as good an idea it is, I just don't see it happening. If anyone has taken notice, there used to be a lot of city-owned skate parks, but they have been shutting down, as cities no longer want to deal with the legal liability involved. When it's city-owned property, even if "use at your own risk" signs are posted, the city/county is still legally liable. There have been numerous lawsuits about this, and, in most cases, the city/county is on the losing end. Because of this, I doubt most cities...especially those in highly-populated areas...are willing to come to our aid.
People have also suggested communities "pooling resources together", and, while I really like that idea, it's, unfortunately, somewhat unrealistic. In smaller communities, with a high "RC involvement" rate, it could be possible...especially in areas with lower cost-of-living. Unfortunately, the likelihood of this being successful in larger areas, such as the greater Los Angeles area, or the SF Bay Area, is highly doubtful. Due to very high real-estate values, little available land, city/county regulations, etc, I don't see this as a viable option. There's also the whole "volunteer" matter - people can be great at proposing working together, in their "of time", for no pay, but, when push-comes-to-shove, few of them actually show up. Part of this is because they'd rather be "playing on the track", than building the track.
There IS, however, one idea I haven't seen mentioned - an RC co-op business. I'm sure most here are familiar with businesses such as REI, Associated Press, Bob's Red Mill, Blue Diamond,Ocean Spray. These are all Co-ops, where ALL of the employees are partial owners (as are, in the case of REI, "members" (ie. the purchasing public who buys from REI)). In typical co-ops, while the profits could be shared among the owners/members, they are typically poured back into the business, so as to help the business grow. This is exactly how REI started. Initially, there was a single "store" (actually, a single shelf inside of another co-op store) in Seattle. Now, that "single shelf" has grown to over 150 stores in 36 states. While owner/members do receive a "rebate" each year, the great majority of the profits are poured back into the company. I wouldn't expect an RC co-op to grow to the size of any of these companies...but, operated the right way, it would be possible to operate a shop/track, host regional/national events...and, most importantly, have a great chance of survival. Additionally, as owners/members, people would have a more-involved interest in doing what's needed to help keep the business alive, as opposed to the "volunteer" suggestions previously made by others (there's nothing wrong with volunteering...my wife & I both do it). It's just a matter of getting enough people to come together, and being willing enough to pony up enough money to get it started. The more people willing to become owners/members, the less each person would need to come up with. Better yet, if you take an established business (especially one that's already on financially-shaky ground), there's less "work" needing to be done.
04-18-2019, 10:13 PM
#243
Go karts
If you want to race competitively in any sport, and you think RC racing is expensive your are in the wrong sport! Go Karts are easily $400-500 a weekend, mx $100-300, full size even more! Rc racing for competitive racing is dirt cheap! Initial cost is even cheaper then 90% of racing sports.
04-19-2019, 02:00 AM
#244
As a former retail hobby shop w/track owner, it's just a bad business model. Period. The owners (and future track owners) do it because they love the hobby. When they can no longer afford to sink money into the business or they lose the love for the hobby it shuts down. That's it.
If you like racing at your local track, make it worth the owners effort to keep it in business.
If you like racing at your local track, make it worth the owners effort to keep it in business.
04-19-2019, 04:07 AM
#245
I got out of racing because of lack of tracks in my area. Now, most tracks are a drive. Why? They are located in the country. Many of us live in the suburbs or in heavier populated areas. If tracks are going to stay open it’s going to be a track that is premier, good set up and is a couple hours away from populated areas that people will travel to. If you don’t at very least have a pick up truck that you can somewhat pit out of, or as I did - custom build an enclosed trailer (or even better, an RV toy hauler) - race day
gets that much more exhausting. Having the option to spend the night and be refreshed the next day is nice.
So, if a Track is going to stay open, it’s going have to attract people from afar to congregate there which allows them to do it in comfort with convenience. I see it all the time at NASCAR races, fair grounds, and other events where people bring a small pop up, drive an RV or are pulling something. If these venues stopped allowing people to do that, spectatorship would fall off a cliff. My post was merely to illustrate an adaptation to the times. No such thing as local tracks for 8th scale to me, thus, out to the country where those tracks are the only ones with sufficient space requirements and can survive financially. If more people had these — more people would go IMO.
04-19-2019, 04:50 AM
#247
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
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Appreciate it and happy to explain:
I got out of racing because of lack of tracks in my area. Now, most tracks are a drive. Why? They are located in the country. Many of us live in the suburbs or in heavier populated areas. If tracks are going to stay open it’s going to be a track that is premier, good set up and is a couple hours away from populated areas that people will travel to. If you don’t at very least have a pick up truck that you can somewhat pit out of, or as I did - custom build an enclosed trailer (or even better, an RV toy hauler) - race day
gets that much more exhausting. Having the option to spend the night and be refreshed the next day is nice.
So, if a Track is going to stay open, it’s going have to attract people from afar to congregate there which allows them to do it in comfort with convenience. I see it all the time at NASCAR races, fair grounds, and other events where people bring a small pop up, drive an RV or are pulling something. If these venues stopped allowing people to do that, spectatorship would fall off a cliff. My post was merely to illustrate an adaptation to the times. No such thing as local tracks for 8th scale to me, thus, out to the country where those tracks are the only ones with sufficient space requirements and can survive financially. If more people had these — more people would go IMO.
I race small scale with a 1/8 racer that travels. Dan Lewis. His van. I’d never seen this for RC before September. Those that can travel are a small percentage of the small percentage that actually race. For us average back or middle of pack drivers. Traveling to something isn’t realistic. What tracks can’t seem to figure out is how to get the casual buyer to even try. Took me 7 years to try.
04-19-2019, 05:52 AM
#248
Tech Regular
Back when I raced in the late 80s, you pretty much had to rely on the local hobby shop for parts to keep racing each week. Sure they had a few mail order outfits such as Tower Hobbis and Sheldon Hobbies but nothing like you see today.
I remember that I had a birthday coming up and my Dad asked me what I wanted. I said that I wanted a new motor and battery for my 2wd stock buggy. So he went to the track I raced at, talked to the owner and hooked me up with a really good Kyosho brushed motor and a battery. Nowadays, it's more likely that someone would buy those items cheaper on the net since you have a much better selection than what the local hobby shop can supply.
I feel having so many sponsored drivers is also a factor in tracks closing. Instead of buying some or most stuff from the local hobby shops, they can pretty much buy what they need direct from the sponsor at a significant discount. This has to take away some revenue from the local hobby shop. Plus, nowadays, it seems like it's really easy to get sponsored, where in the past it was only the top few guys that got a deal.
Bottom line, if you do have a local track, try to support it the best you can. Even if it's only a set of tires and tire sauce from time to time. Every little bit helps.
Brian
I remember that I had a birthday coming up and my Dad asked me what I wanted. I said that I wanted a new motor and battery for my 2wd stock buggy. So he went to the track I raced at, talked to the owner and hooked me up with a really good Kyosho brushed motor and a battery. Nowadays, it's more likely that someone would buy those items cheaper on the net since you have a much better selection than what the local hobby shop can supply.
I feel having so many sponsored drivers is also a factor in tracks closing. Instead of buying some or most stuff from the local hobby shops, they can pretty much buy what they need direct from the sponsor at a significant discount. This has to take away some revenue from the local hobby shop. Plus, nowadays, it seems like it's really easy to get sponsored, where in the past it was only the top few guys that got a deal.
Bottom line, if you do have a local track, try to support it the best you can. Even if it's only a set of tires and tire sauce from time to time. Every little bit helps.
Brian
Last edited by Bri; 04-19-2019 at 06:09 AM.
04-19-2019, 06:03 AM
#249
I race small scale with a 1/8 racer that travels. Dan Lewis. His van. I’d never seen this for RC before September. Those that can travel are a small percentage of the small percentage that actually race. For us average back or middle of pack drivers. Traveling to something isn’t realistic. What tracks can’t seem to figure out is how to get the casual buyer to even try. Took me 7 years to try.
IMO a larger percentage of people travel to race than not - at least in the 8th scale scene. The 8th scale tracks are the ones I see holding ground better than the smaller ones which pop up for a while, then are gone. The people in the 8th scale scene from what I've experienced are really committed to the hobby, and thus, will travel, just as your friend with the van does.
04-19-2019, 06:09 AM
#250
Here's an example of adequate RV parking that Thornhill has to offer among other amenities, all things to consider for any track to follow a winning formula:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9--nxEvVc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9--nxEvVc4
A premier, large camping / parking, indoor / outdoor racing facility - except I'm going to be one of those track owners that caters to himself and make it exclusive 8th scale
- It'll be a money loser, so might as well make it into something I love! And... I'd put up an ice cream / food building so spectators could swing by, have a cone, watch some racing and perhaps get interested! Would be a nice venue for food for the racers too of course.
04-19-2019, 06:32 AM
#251
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
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We might have to agree to disagree. In the North East, most of us travel. CRC Raceway in Rome, NY is a fantastic track that holds only one big 3-day event a year (Rumble in Rome) and it draws in hundreds of entries. Racers from Canada attend including all over NY, PA, MA, CT and even OH. If they didn't hold their club races on Thursdays, there would be more attendance for sure. ----- WHICH - leads me to this: I think sometimes track owners are quicker to cater to themselves rather than the public, then scream they can't keep the track open because it doesn't bring in enough racers. If you're going to hold races on Thursdays - you are eliminating virtually every single person from participating that isn't local who has a shred of responsibility at home. In the case of CRC, their big race draws in thousands of dollars... probably enough to sustain the track all year.
IMO a larger percentage of people travel to race than not - at least in the 8th scale scene. The 8th scale tracks are the ones I see holding ground better than the smaller ones which pop up for a while, then are gone. The people in the 8th scale scene from what I've experienced are really committed to the hobby, and thus, will travel, just as your friend with the van does.
IMO a larger percentage of people travel to race than not - at least in the 8th scale scene. The 8th scale tracks are the ones I see holding ground better than the smaller ones which pop up for a while, then are gone. The people in the 8th scale scene from what I've experienced are really committed to the hobby, and thus, will travel, just as your friend with the van does.
Everybody got a different level they can commit to the hobby.
04-19-2019, 06:40 AM
#252
The Problem with RC tracks Is whats wrong with Everything in the world .Costs of everything has gone up massively since the starts of RC racing in the 80s,
On the retail sector with the amount of retail buildings that are empty due to brick and mortar stores failing , Rents should be going Down but they continue to go up and up . The property mgt. Corporations make money on the Stores if they are empty (tax writeoffs) or rented..
The Online Hobbyshops and the Manufacturers have shutout the track / hobbyshop owners from sales that they need to stay in buiseness. there has been many time Ive tried to order from local hobby shops and they just cant get the item , if I go Online it magically available quickly.
Unfortunately I dont see any easy way that RC racing will ever recover
On the retail sector with the amount of retail buildings that are empty due to brick and mortar stores failing , Rents should be going Down but they continue to go up and up . The property mgt. Corporations make money on the Stores if they are empty (tax writeoffs) or rented..
The Online Hobbyshops and the Manufacturers have shutout the track / hobbyshop owners from sales that they need to stay in buiseness. there has been many time Ive tried to order from local hobby shops and they just cant get the item , if I go Online it magically available quickly.
Unfortunately I dont see any easy way that RC racing will ever recover
04-19-2019, 09:39 AM
#253
From RedRC...Thornhill Racing Circuit in Hutto, Texas, The name of the track, which Chris, a local businessman, operates just for fun, is an interesting one with the name reflecting what stood here before the building of the track and its facilities.
My point exactly.
My point exactly.
04-19-2019, 12:43 PM
#254
Tech Initiate
Hey guys, let me give you my perspective as someone who was submerged in this industry but has been out of it for 20 years or so.
A brief overview of me, I started playing with RC's in the mid 80's, began racing RC's in the early 90's, sponsored by mid 90's, and left the hobby in the late 90's. My racing 'career' began and ended in South Florida. I've worked at a couple of hobby stores during those years, and I've been out of it since around 1998. Though, every few years I go through a process of checking on the industry, reading about the races and new technology, I pick up a few issues of RC Car Action, and peruse the web as I'm doing here.
It's probably already been discussed here in these many pages, but RC started to decline in the early 2000's. This was primarily due to the major distributors, such as Horizon, going from strictly a distribution platform to an online retailer and competing with the hobby shops, and the decline began. Periodically, I would check in on my local shops and talk to the owners which I used to frequent or work for. They all voiced to me the insanity of this new model and that it was killing their business, thus destroying the industry. All of those shops were forced out of business. The ones that hung on for a while had peripheral business such as plastic models or slot-car racing. Those that relied primarily on RC for revenue, or were without a large loyal customer base, went quickly.
It seems the hobby industry wasn't immune to the greater changes which occurred across all of retail with the advent of online sellers.
This problem on its own is enough to slowly decay the industry, and that's primarily due to reducing exposure to the hobby. I mean, most of us got into the hobby because we walked into that glorious hobby store one sunny(or rainy) day looking for something to do. Or, because, our fathers did and they exposed us to RC. Today, most of us don't have a hobby shop anywhere near us. I know that I don't. The exposure has been reduced significantly as a result.
There are other issues, which I'm sure have been discussed. The video game addiction, phone addiction, and these kinds of things. Most of the youngsters spend most of their time living in these artificial rules-based environments instead of the real world where the laws of nature govern. Games are based on rigid systems of logic which aren't consistent with how the universe works. RC cars are real, and their design and operation are built upon discoveries of fundamental principles or nature and human innovation. It requires a degree of understanding of electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, calculus, physics, and so forth. To an individual addicted to sensory stimulation, such as those addicted to iPhones and computer games, RC Cars are unappealing. There is a resulting decline in potential newcomers as a result.
Further, people have far less disposable income. The cost of living continues to skyrocket while wages have not. More than half the nation works minimum wage jobs and live paycheck to paycheck. More than half the nation is on some form of government assistance or are living in poverty stricken conditions. Once great industrial centers such as Baltimore have been decimated, with no meaningful work. Where people were once skilled laborers supporting a family, they are now relegated to minimum wage retail jobs (which are quickly disappearing), and unable to take care of their families. I say this to say that times have changed in terms of the number of potential enthusiasts that would have the means to join this hobby if they were so inclined.
From 1997 through 2019, the landscape of retail has changed significantly over this period which has led to less exposure and a decline in new participants. In addition, economic downturns and a shrinking middle class has limited people's ability to participate even if they were exposed and interested. And finally, the number of newcomers is also declining due to sensory stimulating activity such as computer games.
There is another issue to make matters even worse. Retail sales are down for the reasons I mentioned above, but you also have cost of retail space, energy, wages, insurance, and the basket of overhead increasing steadily over the period. Hobby stores are making less but it's costing more to operate. It's a lose-lose situation.
Race tracks fall into this problem as well. Rising property taxes as states try to balance budgets, the cost of living increasing for track/shop operators, and their overhead also on the rise. So, it has become an unsustainable business model for both the shop and the track.
The only way that I see this working out for us in the long run, aside from attacking the greater economic and political issues which could turn the middle class around, is to organize as a community of local hobbyists and racers to petition municipalities to grant land for the track in the near-term.
It makes me so pleased to see that my old home tracks are still around today. I think this is because of their arrangement with their cities. They are both on city property, as part of the parks department, and so a huge cost of operating the tracks is negated. That is, they don't have to pay property tax. ROAR offers insurance for members, and all racers must be members. Racers must sign waivers, which is probably a requirement of the municipality. So, that leaves the cost of track maintenance and upgrades, which driver fees likely cover without a deficit.
Where I currently live in Charlotte NC, it seems that all of the tracks have closed within the past year or so. The Grove, which had operated a banked on road track along with a dirt off-road just went under after over 20 years in operation. Speed RC Raceway just north of Charlotte also closed approximately 6 months ago, and it looks like it was a world class facility, and played host to nationals and other big races.
My thoughts are that we, as a community of hobbyists and racers in and around Charlotte, need to put together a thorough proposal for Mecklenburg Parks and Rec, and inquire about a land grant to place a ROAR sanctioned track, and see where it leads. In terms of longevity, it's the best security that we can have outside of fixing government. I would imagine if we made an effort to organize RC enthusiasts on these forums and around the web, and inquired within the RC manufacturers circles, we could make this happen in many places. We could potentially spark the creation of dozens of tracks around the country and secure a future for RC.
I have a summer coming up here with limited obligation and I'm seriously considering making this my summer project here in Charlotte. But I need help.
A brief overview of me, I started playing with RC's in the mid 80's, began racing RC's in the early 90's, sponsored by mid 90's, and left the hobby in the late 90's. My racing 'career' began and ended in South Florida. I've worked at a couple of hobby stores during those years, and I've been out of it since around 1998. Though, every few years I go through a process of checking on the industry, reading about the races and new technology, I pick up a few issues of RC Car Action, and peruse the web as I'm doing here.
It's probably already been discussed here in these many pages, but RC started to decline in the early 2000's. This was primarily due to the major distributors, such as Horizon, going from strictly a distribution platform to an online retailer and competing with the hobby shops, and the decline began. Periodically, I would check in on my local shops and talk to the owners which I used to frequent or work for. They all voiced to me the insanity of this new model and that it was killing their business, thus destroying the industry. All of those shops were forced out of business. The ones that hung on for a while had peripheral business such as plastic models or slot-car racing. Those that relied primarily on RC for revenue, or were without a large loyal customer base, went quickly.
It seems the hobby industry wasn't immune to the greater changes which occurred across all of retail with the advent of online sellers.
This problem on its own is enough to slowly decay the industry, and that's primarily due to reducing exposure to the hobby. I mean, most of us got into the hobby because we walked into that glorious hobby store one sunny(or rainy) day looking for something to do. Or, because, our fathers did and they exposed us to RC. Today, most of us don't have a hobby shop anywhere near us. I know that I don't. The exposure has been reduced significantly as a result.
There are other issues, which I'm sure have been discussed. The video game addiction, phone addiction, and these kinds of things. Most of the youngsters spend most of their time living in these artificial rules-based environments instead of the real world where the laws of nature govern. Games are based on rigid systems of logic which aren't consistent with how the universe works. RC cars are real, and their design and operation are built upon discoveries of fundamental principles or nature and human innovation. It requires a degree of understanding of electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, calculus, physics, and so forth. To an individual addicted to sensory stimulation, such as those addicted to iPhones and computer games, RC Cars are unappealing. There is a resulting decline in potential newcomers as a result.
Further, people have far less disposable income. The cost of living continues to skyrocket while wages have not. More than half the nation works minimum wage jobs and live paycheck to paycheck. More than half the nation is on some form of government assistance or are living in poverty stricken conditions. Once great industrial centers such as Baltimore have been decimated, with no meaningful work. Where people were once skilled laborers supporting a family, they are now relegated to minimum wage retail jobs (which are quickly disappearing), and unable to take care of their families. I say this to say that times have changed in terms of the number of potential enthusiasts that would have the means to join this hobby if they were so inclined.
From 1997 through 2019, the landscape of retail has changed significantly over this period which has led to less exposure and a decline in new participants. In addition, economic downturns and a shrinking middle class has limited people's ability to participate even if they were exposed and interested. And finally, the number of newcomers is also declining due to sensory stimulating activity such as computer games.
There is another issue to make matters even worse. Retail sales are down for the reasons I mentioned above, but you also have cost of retail space, energy, wages, insurance, and the basket of overhead increasing steadily over the period. Hobby stores are making less but it's costing more to operate. It's a lose-lose situation.
Race tracks fall into this problem as well. Rising property taxes as states try to balance budgets, the cost of living increasing for track/shop operators, and their overhead also on the rise. So, it has become an unsustainable business model for both the shop and the track.
The only way that I see this working out for us in the long run, aside from attacking the greater economic and political issues which could turn the middle class around, is to organize as a community of local hobbyists and racers to petition municipalities to grant land for the track in the near-term.
It makes me so pleased to see that my old home tracks are still around today. I think this is because of their arrangement with their cities. They are both on city property, as part of the parks department, and so a huge cost of operating the tracks is negated. That is, they don't have to pay property tax. ROAR offers insurance for members, and all racers must be members. Racers must sign waivers, which is probably a requirement of the municipality. So, that leaves the cost of track maintenance and upgrades, which driver fees likely cover without a deficit.
Where I currently live in Charlotte NC, it seems that all of the tracks have closed within the past year or so. The Grove, which had operated a banked on road track along with a dirt off-road just went under after over 20 years in operation. Speed RC Raceway just north of Charlotte also closed approximately 6 months ago, and it looks like it was a world class facility, and played host to nationals and other big races.
My thoughts are that we, as a community of hobbyists and racers in and around Charlotte, need to put together a thorough proposal for Mecklenburg Parks and Rec, and inquire about a land grant to place a ROAR sanctioned track, and see where it leads. In terms of longevity, it's the best security that we can have outside of fixing government. I would imagine if we made an effort to organize RC enthusiasts on these forums and around the web, and inquired within the RC manufacturers circles, we could make this happen in many places. We could potentially spark the creation of dozens of tracks around the country and secure a future for RC.
I have a summer coming up here with limited obligation and I'm seriously considering making this my summer project here in Charlotte. But I need help.
04-19-2019, 02:01 PM
#255
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
As a former retail hobby shop w/track owner, it's just a bad business model. Period. The owners (and future track owners) do it because they love the hobby. When they can no longer afford to sink money into the business or they lose the love for the hobby it shuts down. That's it.
If you like racing at your local track, make it worth the owners effort to keep it in business.
If you like racing at your local track, make it worth the owners effort to keep it in business.
Manufacturers could help, by not having such a huge difference in wholesale pricing, charging higher-volume purchasers much less. I'm not trying to suggest they sell to all resellers at the same lower price (tho, that would be nice, and great for consumers)...I'm just suggesting they make the pricing-gap smaller. Unfortunately, getting them to help the "problem" is unlikely, as manufacturers & distributors are equally unlikely to change their pricing tiers.
Since you brought up the "business model"...maybe it's the business model that needs to change, which should lead you back to the co-op idea. Taking my previously-stated co-op suggestion one step further, instead of a single shop/track becoming a co-op, an alternate idea (and one with a possible greater chance of success) would be for multiple shops to join together in becoming a co-op...not from within the same geographical area (as that would eliminate business competition), but from a much wider area. This wouldn't be meant for large shops already doing well, (such as Amain), but would be meant for smaller shops that are either already having financial difficulties, or are on the road to financial discoveries.
Example: a shop/track in Modesto, CA, one in Seattle, WA, maybe one in Phoenix, AZ, and maybe one in San Antonio, TX, could join together, as a co-op. Each shop/track owner (herein referred to as 'owner-operators') would maintain business license ownership of their own location, and would be responsible for all state/federal matters (including taxes) of their physical location...but this would lead to multiple benefits, for the owner-operators, and customers, as follows:
1) Owners-perators would be able to add additional incoming funds, by selling memberships (similar to how REI operates), to which members would get a discount on purchases.
2) The potential tax benefits - many states (as well as federally) have tax laws beneficial to co-ops.
3) Owner-operators, by pulling their purchasing power together, would be able to purchase from manufacturers & distributers at a lower price, thus increasing their profile margins.
4) Members would receive discounts from any of the locations involved in the co-op. Discounts wouldn't have to be "substantial" (obviously, a big part of this business model is to increase profit margin), but, considering a co-ops ability to purchase at a much lower cost, some of these savings would be passed onto members, while still increasing the overall peridot margin. For those not interested in becoming 'members', they'd pay the original price, which would be additional profit for that location. This would give some a more competitive edge against e-tailers such as RCMart & Amazon.
5) When members travel to other areas where another location of their co-op is located, that location could either offer them the same discount as they receive from their "home" store, or a different discount...but, they'd still receive a discount. This would give that shop a far greater chance of getting that customer's business, compared to the shop "down the block", or "across town".
Now, there's no guarantee that going with the "multi-shop co-op" business model would save any, or all, of the shops involved...but, it WOULD give them a FAR greater chance of succeeding. Honestly, it's a win-win situation - shops win because they simultaneously decrease operating costs, AND increase profit margins; customers win because they're able to get lower prices, support their LHS, AND receive their goods immediately (as opposed to purchasing online, and having to wait). Plus, members would feel a greater 'connection' with their local shop/track, and would have a 'connection' to shops/tracks in other areas, should they travel to those areas.
As times change, how people go about doing things changes. As people change how they do things (such as purchasing), businesses NEED to make changes if they want to stay in business. Amazon has already caused numerous bookstores (individual/local stores, as well as large national chains like Borders) to go out of business. Computer stores, such as Egghead, have, essentially, been ''forced' into becoming online-only, if they want to survive. "General" hobby shops have been pushed into closure and/or bankruptcy because they're unable to compete against online e-tailers (again, Amazon, and others). RC shops willI NOT survive if they continue to stick with doing things the same way. The world IS changing, how business (at least successful businesses) is done IS changing. If the RC industry - manufacturers, shops, tracks, etc - wants to "stay alive", it NEEDS to change...otherwise, it faces a slow "death". Does anyone remember drive--in theaters, 'five-n-dimes', malt shops, and many other things I could name that have 'disappeared'? The point is, all of these didn't/wouldn't change...and, now they're gone. I'm just getting back into RC, and I don't want to see it die before I get to fully enjoy it.