BoneCrusher

iTrader: (2)

Gonna have a go at this…

I’m coming from the point of view that no one in the history of WCICS has race more classes than me and probably only one other person has attended more WCICS events than me.

So here is my opinion of each class.

1. Mini

Class is working great just need to figure this motor thing out. I like the Orca Combos. I’m still on the original one I bought from the first season. Works great.

If a motor change is needed then find a close motor to the Orca one. Locked timing. Easily purchased by the masses. Consider discussing this with Edmonton. They have the biggest turnout for the class club racing.

Pros: get more people into racing who didn’t get in cause no Orca Motors to buy this season.

Cons: Which locked Spec motor to go with. Old Orca motor becomes a paper weight, but maybe let the Orca's run with the new motors kinda like the silvercans can run with the class right now.


2. F1

Fun new class. Not big enough yet for anyone to complain yet. But possibly consider using the same motor the mini class uses if we go to a locked Spec Motor. No clue about which F1 cars with certain widths are faster or some kind of special front end steering that’s suppose to be an advantage.

Pros: stop the motor complaining before it starts.

Cons: Someone will complain what are they gonna do with their old 21.5.

SIDE RANT: I’m confused why some people would be opposed to a spec motor for the spec classes. If everyone is using the same motor, then that takes the “who’s got the faster motor” out of the equation. I’ve heard the counter arguments:
- Are all the motors from say brand X truly equally?
- But I like test and tune different motors
- But what am I gonna do with this motor I bought already?
I’m confused cause if I’m using a motor and if I was just as fast as everyone else down the straight, etc, why would I want to test another motor unless I’m looking for that slight faster advantage? Rant over.

3. GT/CTA

I ran silver can GT. Ran pretty close to the CTA’s. Good times. I think the draw of this class is the bodies. ANY NON TC BODY that’s painted to look cool and awesome. I would keep the Silvercan GT any weight and tire so guys and still play around with the brushed motors and change the brushless guys to open body with some kind of spec tire and 21.5 motor. See motor rant. For tires probably stick with the CTA tires being used now even though they suck in the beginning when you’re breaking them in and suck after the tread is gone. I think HPI offers many different rims so that should appease guys planning to use say import type looking bodies. Basically a class that’s slower than TC Stock with cool looking bodies.

Pros: Will definitely draw more racers. Spec 21.5 motor. I think it will be a huge class!

Cons: I don’t think we have a VTA purest among us.

Imagine all three of the above uses the same spec motor. Maybe get a super deal from a manufacturer. That’s 3 classes with the same spec locked timing motor!!!

4. WGT

Didn’t run it this year. No room to pack it and also I gave it away. Fun class. Wish it were also a spec motor class with no boost. No one complains about the spec tires in this class do they?

5. TC Stock

Consistently the biggest class. I wouldn’t change a thing but I think a spec 17.5 motor will make for even closer racing. Did I just say spec motor again?

6. 12th Stock

Love this class. However, there is quite a discrepancy with speeds and everyone knows it has to do with the tires and motor. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS. In Victoria I heard from one of the fastest 12th racers I know that said “black fronts and yellow rears are not competitive anymore”. Well I run those. Then in Kamloops, I’m getting passed on the straight with one of this new D4 1S short stack motors. Lucky I’m cheap and I’m not getting new tires or motors. But if you really wanted to compete, guess what you need?

Pros for spec motor and tires: Closer racing. So why would anyone be against this???

Cons: It’s 12th scale blasphemy to talk about it apparently. See spec motor rant. For tires, there something about offset rims and such I’m not well versed in. I’m only looking at it from a closer racing is more fun racing point of view.

Way Off Rant: So this year’s Formula 1is really a 2 horse race. Is that really fun to watch? They were showing the slower cars that had closer racing than the battle between Hamilton and Rosberg. I thought Kimi working his way up was awesome until that bad pit stop finished him. Kinda boring after that. I always wondered why Indy never caught on as all the cars were basically the same speed and it took more skill than car to win. In F1 it’s really the car now isn’t it? Rant over.

7. TC Mod

Nothing to change. Everyone is using the same tires and you can put whatever motor you want. No one is complaining except the guys that want a stickier tire. Snobs.

8. 12 Mod

Don’t know why it’s not popular. Actually find this class easier to drive than TC Mod. I like the spec tire thing again even though it’s a taboo subject.


Strictly based on attendance, I would have only 6 core classes (of the existing 8) that counts for points and have 12th Mod and WGT be host city dependant classes.

Just an opinion, which everyone is entitled to….

Ivan

monkeyracing

iTrader: (10)

I'm glad I've got a bowl of popcorn already.

As much of a spec guy as I am, I'm not sure if I'd want to go spec in as many classes as that. EG: It's no secret I don't like 12th, but it's one of those classes that needs the edginess of the latest and greatest tech. The only thing I'd change is the 8 minute heats. The excuse that it's tradition is crap. (uh oh) If it was really about tradition, the class would still run NiCads and brushed motors. ;-P

And...go!

BoneCrusher

iTrader: (2)

I didn't say spec everything. I would for mini, F1 and GT/CTA. For the Stock classes I just said it would make for closer racing that's all. I agree that those classes a majority of people are inclined to buy the latest and greatest to compete which is fine and their way of having fun. Some aren't which is fine too where winning is not as big of a deal as just going out there to have a good clean run or a great battle against someone else.

Driving 12th scale for 8 minutes goes by fast. It's the marshalling part that you'll never get 8 minutes of your life back. Lol.

Ivan

Korgae

iTrader: (15)

I would love to see the spec 12th scale tire come into play with WCICS for the 13.5 class. It is basically the same as the WGT spec tire compound. It is gaining steam in the USA as the guys that run them are figuring them out and winning club races with them. I talked to Brian Bodine lots about them in Victoria, there is really no down fall unless you want to show up to the track with 6 different compounds of tires so you can find out what works that weekend... I really think tis would open this class up and make it more competitive and boost entries.

WGT-Feels like there were more entries this season then in previous seasons but I don't know, the #'s don't lie, but most races i remember had two heats or more. This season was the most competitive and fun season I have ever had in WGT, Mixing it up with Wayne, Craig, Luke and Dave ( All said drivers lead or won A mains this year) was awesome. I would like to see it go to 13.5. It would slow it down a bit, but would make motor choice easier and we would cross more with the USA racers. I truly don't know why this class is not more popular.. It is litterly an all out performance plug a play class once you get the setup to your liking.

I think we are missing a big a part of the market not offering scale spec, this class in the USA is big already and growing, there is a reason John keeps asking for it. If people saw this class more in Canada they would hang up their Mini's.. Exactly what happened in the USA.


12 Mod, I do not think would work on the spec tire... it would have to remain open, to be honest I though this class would not run this year but it turned out okay and people seem to be having fun and enjoying it.


Overall all the races this year were great and finished on time or earlier then expected, so why do people feel the need to trim classes? To bunch people up in other classes?

Man I wanted to suggest going the other way and offering a 13.5 touring class.. and make a rule that you can not enter 17.5 and mod together. 17.5 guys looking to go faster and have another class would also run 13.5 and the mod guys looking for a second TC class would also run 13.5.. That would be epic, I think..

If this is all we have to talk about then that means fun times ahead and overall another great season

patorz31

So with a spec 1/12th tire, how do we deal with all of the different offsets? Do they make a spec tire that fits a Yokomo?

Korgae

iTrader: (15)

Great question. The short answer, Since these are race cars and like in any racing league, the cars are designed and changed to fit within the rule set offered, not the other way around. (make rules that fit cars?) So I am sure as this gains steam, Yokomo will offer a rear axle hub conversion to run a standard wheel ( spec ) or owners of Yokomo cars can run a standard axle hub from another manufacture until Yok offers one. Yes if you choose to run a YOK you might be faced with a conversion cost, but it's a risk you take when you run something that is not the norm to start with... Not to mention the cost saving's on tires should offset any conversion costs.

This of course is all pre AGM talk, so anyone with a yok do not rush out to buy a axle..

monkeyracing

iTrader: (10)

Good points Korgae.

WGT is an absolute blast to drive. I loved it, but never having opportunity to race it (outside of wcics) made it pointless owning one.

Scale Spec - isn't this just VTA with looser body rules? Those more open rules would bring in a few more, but looking at some of the money I've seen spent in VTA, I'm not sure it's really the budget class it was intended to be. It's sort of "TC with style". If the 25.5 actually brought the speeds down, so it wasn't the same as or really close to TC, I could see myself adding one to my stable.

Why would you want to encourage people to hang up their minis anyway? It's fun, simple, affordable racing. Yes, affordable. Unless you're a weenie. You know who you are.

The idea of trimming classes stemmed from the long race days that began to creep in as part of WCICS tremendous success and growth. It was an idea suggested by some of the exec. The tricky part is keeping everyone happy over a vast geographical area with wildly divergent interests. Pull a city like Victoria or Calgary out of the stats and the results change dramatically. Overall, there were a few classes that under-performed and the idea of cutting some was considered for the sake of those who faced 12+ hours of driving to get home on Sunday. Attendance being slightly reduced at some venues this season has helped partially alleviate some of that stress.

WCICS is a good organization, dealing with some growing pains. I hope to see it grow out of its dorky teenage phase into something mature and world class.

pcar951

iTrader: (23)

**

Steve S

iTrader: (5)

Spec tires might get me back into 12 stock. No desire to run mod again, just wasn't fun racing.

R3VoLuTiOn

iTrader: (29)

Scale Spec - In the NW: open bodies non sedan, run included spoilers or scale spoilers, and any D-Compound HPI tire / wheel combo you'd like, with Novak 25.5 motors only, 1450g. Pretty simple rules to stick by, and a good beginner class to step up to from / along mini. There's no winning one-combination, but the competition is definitely high.

At Overgeared, we've adopted the Scale Spec class, but kept the 21.5 motors of the VTA days to simplify the transition. As the new motors in 17.5 and 21.5 get faster and faster, I personally appreciate the limiting factor of 25.5 and perhaps there is room for a single manufacturer to step up and sponsor the class?

(0000000000)

iTrader: (2)

There has been a steady increase in "GT Silvercan" participants in the last several wciccs events. Rather than asses the symptoms, maybe look into the causes.

I have observed that although many people are comfortable with the performance of the CTA class, they are not all comfortable with the vintage body requirement.

It sure would be nice to run a non-muscle car body with spec HPI x patterns, and a brushless motor, and not have to fly to the west coast to do so.

The whole point of this class is that it is fun and crowd pleasing. What better way to increase reach and expand/promote purchase into the rc market by loosening up the body rules? It would be a shame to have a new racer who was born in the late 90's that's interested in running a touring car chassis, only to be turned away because he doesn't know (or care to run) a '69 chevelle body which his father doesn't even know about - which his local shop may not even be able to provide.

We are getting older. Let's not take for granted that fact that many young "adults" with money to spend are under the impression that a '93 Supra and a MkIII Jetta are considered a Vintage car in their eyes.

IronRing Racing

Thanks for all of the great input guys, and all of the great comments. It's really a pleasure to see all of the hard work the WCICS team has put in over the last almost 7(!) years, with some tough growing pains, and now read a couple pages of really positive, respectful, constructive comments!

So, from me and the entire WCICS team, thanks!

Discussion:

Adding new classes, Scale Spec, TC 13.5, etc, will be discussed, but if anything, most racers I've talked too feel we've probably got too many already.

This year was one of the smoothest yet, and without any major electronic changes that we know of, and ORCA combo's back, next year should be even better.

Pretty much everything that's been posted has been discussed at one time or another throughout this season. Here's the highlights:

Rules Timing: As always, our comittment has been to have the rules set by September. I'm happy to say that the last 3 years we've consistently beat that date, sometimes by a couple months, and had the rules finalized and out as much as 3 months before the first race. Other than the possible exception of Mini below, we're on track to do the same this year. (thanks for noticing and for the complement Stu!)

Classes: As a general comment on killing any class, the regional popularity of the classes means that overall, and this is from last season's numbers, everything class except TC Stock and 12 Stock were within 9-14% of the overall numbers. I really was amazed how it averaged out. This season, F1 & 12M failed to meet the minimum numbers at some races, and we'll discuss them.

Personally, I think the minimum requirement rule worked perfectly, just as intended, and I would keep all the classes and let that rule continue to do it's job. We'll see what the reps decide.

Spec Motors: We don't have to look much farther than the Mini class this year to see the downside of the spec equipment decisions. Mini was to solve a VERY BIG problem, and it did that really well. But to spec motors for anything other than a single one off event like IIC is not sustainable long term, across what is arguably the worlds largest carpet RC series. Tying yourself to one company, one motor, etc., is troublesome enough with mini, imagine the headache if we did it across 3 more classes. Spec turn rules work well, and are the best middle ground.

ORCA Mini: No new hardware released yet (obviously, you'd see it in stores), but ORCA is saying it's coming out soon. So if it's out this summer, problem solved. If for some strange reason not, the WCICS team will have a follow up discussion and have a decision out. Otherwise, no changes.

CTA: as Jim pointed out, there are many slight changes that may (or may not) actually have an effect on numbers. The bodies is one that continues to come up, but if bodies were open, then the super heavy CTA bodies will go extinct, in favor of super light, aerodynamic shells, and welcome to what is now just another TC class with HPI tires. It works well with GT, and as several racers can attest, a GT car can be very competetive, and you can run whatever NSX/LFA/GT3/M3/NASCAR/Truck, etc body you want. Just my thoughts, but I wasn't born in the time of the muscle cars, so I also completely understand the other side. I'm good with opening up, just worry that it'll morph into the above. We'll see what the reps decide.

12 Stock: Korgae brought this up a few months ago, I like the idea, hope it gets voted in!

12 Mod: The fastest, most difficult class will ALWAYS have the lowest numbers. I hope it stays, I do enjoy the driving challenge of 12 Mod. For tires, I agree, needs to be left open tire as it's sometimes needed, and is part of the class.

WGT: Going great, but I guess 2nd & 3rd in the championship the last 2 years doesn't qualify me to comment.

TC Stock and Mod: Going great. Looking at a grippier Sweep tire. Hopefully not a giant change, although obviously limited to the rubber compounds that are available.

F1: It's up to the F1 guys (led by Cal), I'm just not familiar with that class. I know he had a plan of how to progress the rules as the years went on.

As the "guy" who's been to more races, there are my thoughts. As always, it's the reps that vote, so please talk to your local rep and make your thoughts known. Reps, talk to your clubs, WCICS AGM is next weekend! The above encompasses pretty much all of the discussion points at the AGM. Like I said, it's been a pretty smooth year!!!

Josh

Codfather

iTrader: (14)

Just out of curiosity, what spec tire are people using elsewhere for 12th stock?

stulec52

iTrader: (26)

Ivan,
You should list the classes you've raced.
Be fun to see just how many different cars and classes you've raced.

I know I've done quite a few, but I bet not as many as you 😃

Korgae

iTrader: (15)

The USA manufactures and believe it or not, team drivers with endless supply of tires are pushing for it as they see the writing on the wall, it is becoming expensive for the "club racer" to compete in the USA.. Smaller tire sizes, softer compounds, make for a 1-2 heat tire... Kinda like TC foam mod years ago.. This time they want to be pro active and the tire companies are mounting WGT spec compounds on 12th scale wheels for testing.. The results are fantastic from what I hear, The compound is a 38 shore ( Lilac ) that is tough, low wear and grippy.. Again just look at WGT.. The cars are on rails..

Currenlty BSR/JACO and CRC are working on them.