View Poll Results: Do we need a Controlled Motor/ESC for Racing?
Yes for 21.5 Only
30
15.31%
Yes for 13.5 Only
3
1.53%
Yes for 21.5 and 13.5
76
38.78%
No, leave it open and as it is.
59
30.10%
I have no opinion
5
2.55%
I'm sponsored / own a store, my wallet says NO!
2
1.02%
13.5 Motor Only
6
3.06%
21.5 Motor Only
15
7.65%
Voters: 196. You may not vote on this poll
Controlled Motor and Gearing for Stock Classes
11-12-2015, 03:00 PM
#391
If you control something there will always be another way to gain performance. We need to be careful in what we control to prevent for example an expensive battery war. A control locked timing motor and FDR limit could very well lead to this exact situation. At which point we will be in the same situation and have more regulations to enforce.
yes I know voltage drop can come into play a little but none of the stock guys at the nats were running 7000 mah batteries,
Biggest factor so far has been from tyres.
11-12-2015, 03:26 PM
#392
From our testing of running the controlled class over the last couple of months the battery is not a factor, because they are not being pushed hard. We are using much less mah over a run. This was one of the first things I wanted to know as well, and tested cheap turnigy's against the latest LRP stock lipo's and there was no difference over the run's (consistency down to 0.1 on the runs)
yes I know voltage drop can come into play a little but none of the stock guys at the nats were running 7000 mah batteries,
Biggest factor so far has been from tyres.
yes I know voltage drop can come into play a little but none of the stock guys at the nats were running 7000 mah batteries,
Biggest factor so far has been from tyres.
Just before one race I noticed that my motor fan had stopped working, but still raced the car for 6 mins, and the motor temp was so low that you could hold it comfortably with your fingers. The motor used for this testing is the Speed Passion V3 13.5T, which retails online for $43.
11-12-2015, 03:40 PM
#393
Attracting new members and novices to EP onroad is definitely an issue to be discussed. I'm not convinced cost is the only issue as I think the generation of kids we are trying to attract into the sport have different desires. They are looking to spend their (or their parents) funds on technology and not on hobby activities like RC.
I have three teenage kids and I've at various times tried to encourage them to come and race with little success. They're more interested in playing gaming consoles, watching youtube videos or sending messages via social media with acronyms and abbreviations I have no understanding of. If all the money spent on phones, laptops, gaming consoles and games for my kids was directed at RC they would all be driving top of the line cars with the best motors and batteries.
Tweaking the rules, using hand out or less powerful motors and changing to fixed gearing is unlikely to attract many new novices. I think the end result will be to make RC more sustainable for the people already in the sport.
I have three teenage kids and I've at various times tried to encourage them to come and race with little success. They're more interested in playing gaming consoles, watching youtube videos or sending messages via social media with acronyms and abbreviations I have no understanding of. If all the money spent on phones, laptops, gaming consoles and games for my kids was directed at RC they would all be driving top of the line cars with the best motors and batteries.
Tweaking the rules, using hand out or less powerful motors and changing to fixed gearing is unlikely to attract many new novices. I think the end result will be to make RC more sustainable for the people already in the sport.
11-12-2015, 03:53 PM
#394
I'd also like to add that during this testing there was a broad selection of popular esc's from Hobbywing, Tekin & LRP/Nosram, and all cars were set at a FDR of 5.0 .
Just before one race I noticed that my motor fan had stopped working, but still raced the car for 6 mins, and the motor temp was so low that you could hold it comfortably with your fingers. The motor used for this testing is the Speed Passion V3 13.5T, which retails online for $43.
Just before one race I noticed that my motor fan had stopped working, but still raced the car for 6 mins, and the motor temp was so low that you could hold it comfortably with your fingers. The motor used for this testing is the Speed Passion V3 13.5T, which retails online for $43.
A quick off topic rant, but when I moved to Sydney from Auckland 18 months ago I got back into RC as a way to meet people, I had no mates here.
My first trip to my local track where I was living at the time in Erskineville and people sat back and looked at me like I was some Alien. There was one guy who helped me out a bit and we're still mates today.
I've been sworn at on the driver-stand countless times, I watched two 21.5 drivers almost get in a massive fight a month ago. 21.5 is the grading entry level class! There is a lot of bullying that goes on not just in Sydney but everywhere.
For those who don't think anything needs to change are delusional.
Sure product and tyres and motors and whatever else play a part in this. But attitudes around the track side are far more important.
Like I said before I've spoken a lot to Damian over the months and I don't think they could have chosen 3 better guys to look after all this.
11-12-2015, 04:13 PM
#395
Not sure it is appropriate to make such a generalisation and tarnish every RC club/track. I've raced at three Sydney tracks in the last 12 months and have not seen or experienced the bullying you highlighted. The driver behaviour at the Nats last week in particular was exceptional. There is always some friendly banter on the stands and in the pits and not everyone will see eye to eye. I don't think your generalisation reflects reality.
11-12-2015, 04:14 PM
#396
Not sure it is appropriate to make such a generalisation and tarnish every RC club/track. I've raced at three Sydney tracks in the last 12 months and have not seen or experienced the bullying you highlighted. The driver behaviour at the Nats last week in particular was exceptional. There is always some friendly banter on the stands and in the pits and not everyone will see eye to eye. I don't think your generalisation reflects reality.
11-12-2015, 04:30 PM
#397
That seems like a very logical step, there will always be guys who want the best of everything and have affiliations to certain brands. So they could still set out to have the things they want and still remain a competitive affordable class for those who want to spend less.
If on road 21.5 doesn't, or can't be de sanctioned, then the above scenario & idea's could be considered as a viable option to reign in the perceived & actual costs of a very competitive class.
Clubs could also adopt the idea's to also minimise the cost for it's new & current members to help keep the hobby sustainable.
11-12-2015, 06:04 PM
#399
By way of elaboration, the FDR limit could be decided by each club and a specific value not mandated nationwide.
Mini has that concept, FWIW.
Just thinking out aloud...
11-12-2015, 06:40 PM
#401
I'm liking the idea of keeping 21.5 sanctioned, but introduce a control motor & gearing cap for that class to start with. Introduces a safety net and potentially differentiates 13.5 in more ways than one. If people like it, we transition 13.5 at a later time.
By way of elaboration, the FDR limit could be decided by each club and a specific value not mandated nationwide.
Mini has that concept, FWIW.
Just thinking out aloud...
By way of elaboration, the FDR limit could be decided by each club and a specific value not mandated nationwide.
Mini has that concept, FWIW.
Just thinking out aloud...
We can desanction the class, whilst mandating its inclusion as a support class at State and National Championships.
Take away the carrot of a "title", mandate no trophies and you'll get the hard core drivers moving on to Stock, making more space for the up-and-comers which will bring in more new people. The atmosphere would become more relaxed in that class as well. No trophies for the class will also mean reduced entry fees, which helps make racing at these events more accessible.
If we were to go this way I'd specifically write a preamble for the class that outlined its purpose as an introductory class feeding drivers to Stock (which should be the default for your average racer).
11-12-2015, 09:13 PM
#403
New people don't start racing to win national titles so how is that turning them away unless you mean existing drivers,at the end of the day they would still get to race just not get a trophy saying that they were in the top three of the beginners class at the Nationals.
The national titles is to find the best in the country at the highest level not the best in the slowest class.
People are saying how close the times between 21.5 and stock were at the last titles so there is the issue either stock is to slow or 21.5 is being pushed to the limit.
The national titles is to find the best in the country at the highest level not the best in the slowest class.
People are saying how close the times between 21.5 and stock were at the last titles so there is the issue either stock is to slow or 21.5 is being pushed to the limit.
11-12-2015, 09:49 PM
#404
That seems like a very logical step, there will always be guys who want the best of everything and have affiliations to certain brands. So they could still set out to have the things they want and still remain a competitive affordable class for those who want to spend less.
A quick off topic rant, but when I moved to Sydney from Auckland 18 months ago I got back into RC as a way to meet people, I had no mates here.
My first trip to my local track where I was living at the time in Erskineville and people sat back and looked at me like I was some Alien. There was one guy who helped me out a bit and we're still mates today.
I've been sworn at on the driver-stand countless times, I watched two 21.5 drivers almost get in a massive fight a month ago. 21.5 is the grading entry level class! There is a lot of bullying that goes on not just in Sydney but everywhere.
For those who don't think anything needs to change are delusional.
Sure product and tyres and motors and whatever else play a part in this. But attitudes around the track side are far more important.
Like I said before I've spoken a lot to Damian over the months and I don't think they could have chosen 3 better guys to look after all this.
A quick off topic rant, but when I moved to Sydney from Auckland 18 months ago I got back into RC as a way to meet people, I had no mates here.
My first trip to my local track where I was living at the time in Erskineville and people sat back and looked at me like I was some Alien. There was one guy who helped me out a bit and we're still mates today.
I've been sworn at on the driver-stand countless times, I watched two 21.5 drivers almost get in a massive fight a month ago. 21.5 is the grading entry level class! There is a lot of bullying that goes on not just in Sydney but everywhere.
For those who don't think anything needs to change are delusional.
Sure product and tyres and motors and whatever else play a part in this. But attitudes around the track side are far more important.
Like I said before I've spoken a lot to Damian over the months and I don't think they could have chosen 3 better guys to look after all this.
Attracting new members and novices to EP onroad is definitely an issue to be discussed. I'm not convinced cost is the only issue as I think the generation of kids we are trying to attract into the sport have different desires. They are looking to spend their (or their parents) funds on technology and not on hobby activities like RC.
I have three teenage kids and I've at various times tried to encourage them to come and race with little success. They're more interested in playing gaming consoles, watching youtube videos or sending messages via social media with acronyms and abbreviations I have no understanding of. If all the money spent on phones, laptops, gaming consoles and games for my kids was directed at RC they would all be driving top of the line cars with the best motors and batteries.
Tweaking the rules, using hand out or less powerful motors and changing to fixed gearing is unlikely to attract many new novices. I think the end result will be to make RC more sustainable for the people already in the sport.
I have three teenage kids and I've at various times tried to encourage them to come and race with little success. They're more interested in playing gaming consoles, watching youtube videos or sending messages via social media with acronyms and abbreviations I have no understanding of. If all the money spent on phones, laptops, gaming consoles and games for my kids was directed at RC they would all be driving top of the line cars with the best motors and batteries.
Tweaking the rules, using hand out or less powerful motors and changing to fixed gearing is unlikely to attract many new novices. I think the end result will be to make RC more sustainable for the people already in the sport.
Not sure it is appropriate to make such a generalisation and tarnish every RC club/track. I've raced at three Sydney tracks in the last 12 months and have not seen or experienced the bullying you highlighted. The driver behaviour at the Nats last week in particular was exceptional. There is always some friendly banter on the stands and in the pits and not everyone will see eye to eye. I don't think your generalisation reflects reality.
However there is a few clubs and MEMBERS more importantly that don't and are not as welcoming, and this is a difficult problem to fix.
Correct
New people don't start racing to win national titles so how is that turning them away unless you mean existing drivers,at the end of the day they would still get to race just not get a trophy saying that they were in the top three of the beginners class at the Nationals.
The national titles is to find the best in the country at the highest level not the best in the slowest class.
People are saying how close the times between 21.5 and stock were at the last titles so there is the issue either stock is to slow or 21.5 is being pushed to the limit.
The national titles is to find the best in the country at the highest level not the best in the slowest class.
People are saying how close the times between 21.5 and stock were at the last titles so there is the issue either stock is to slow or 21.5 is being pushed to the limit.
Does this mean the number of 50+ year olds in our sport aren't entitled to fight for a national title in their respected class? We need to cater for everyone and currently we do.
It's like bathurst, everyone is there to watch the touring cars right? However the UTE's also award a champion, why as not everyone can afford or be competitive in a V8 supercar.
11-13-2015, 11:57 AM
#405
Just going to throw another idea out there, make of it as you will.
Rather than a control motor/ESC combo, why not a price cap?
No motor or ESC can have a RRP greater than US$100 for example.
That brings cost down, doesn't hurt retailers that sell specific brands, keeps product development moving along etc.
Also the "beginners" issue is at club level. Let the clubs decide how they want to do that. Orange club has their own class designed for beginners and is quite controlled, as it seems now does Castle Hill.
No beginners decide they want to start racing at state or national level, so catering for them at such level should not really be considered.
Rather than a control motor/ESC combo, why not a price cap?
No motor or ESC can have a RRP greater than US$100 for example.
That brings cost down, doesn't hurt retailers that sell specific brands, keeps product development moving along etc.
Also the "beginners" issue is at club level. Let the clubs decide how they want to do that. Orange club has their own class designed for beginners and is quite controlled, as it seems now does Castle Hill.
No beginners decide they want to start racing at state or national level, so catering for them at such level should not really be considered.