RC4 Decoder
 

We are looking at upgrading our RC2 decoder to an RC4 version
Any problems or glitches associated with these?
Any feedback would be great

i haven't heard anything yet but I'm keen to hear feedback too.
sounds like it will be a good thing, with a higher hit rate and less noise etc we have been using an rc3 here with no problems but will be upgrading to the rc4 soon hopefully, with what these are worth it would be silly not to at this price.
i don't think product support would be a problem from these guys.

Trevor had the RC4 decoder on at Castle Hill on Friday , MRT PTX Transponders don't get picked up .. only the genuine ones.

Hope that's not true as I have 2 x mrt transponder :eek:

From the moment I saw MyLaps sending out those upgrade deal offers, I felt it seemed overly cheap, meaning something was up with them 'really' wanting everyone to take up the new firmware system.

Any questions I have had basically went unanswered, MyLaps Australia in general did not seem to have any clue if the RC4 decoders would lock out the clones, there seemed to be a strong "we don't know but can't guarantee anything" official line being rolled out when asked.

They also won't commit to any answer on if any of the old models will be phased out with support or compatibility, or for that matter have no idea if they will ever come out with a replacement for the current rechargeable club transponders (and our club can still use 10 on any given entry level race night).

Hi Steve I have been talking to some guys in the UK they have got them to work, would like to check it next week if your coming down for the last meeting this year and I can do some testing. They changes the strength of the signal from the default settings. Will be interesting to see if it works.

OK sounds good, Plan to be there, and am on leave now so hopefully early.

I will be ther early to as I also will be on level I'll let you know what time.

I'm still wondering why we need to know the temperature and voltage of a transponder.. If it had an accelerometer and sent back max speed, max cornering, acceleration and braking G's then it would seem more worthwhile.

New RC4 transponders don't work with the older decoders at all? I guess all clubs will be forced to upgrade in the end anyway.

How many clubs are currently using this and what programs are they running?
Was told that allycat will be compatible early next year

Happy to share our experience and story so far ...

TFTR received our new RC4 decoder last Friday and installed it. All club transponders and AMBrc personal transponders tested ok.

The latest version of Alycat (9.3.1.86) works with the RC4 in that when cars cross the loop Alycat receives that data correctly and so races and practice run normally. The new data from RC4 PT's (voltage, temp, etc) is not currently read by Alycat. Ken is working on this and hopes to have it working in due course.

We've connected the Alycat PC to the RC4 Decoder using ethernet. Haven't tested serial. The RC4 does not connect via USB.

MRT Transponders

The good news is that the decoder picked up my black MRT PTx transponder. But it strangely didn't work the first time I tried it.

Steps:

1. tried the car with the MRT PT - didn't register
2. tried a car with an AMB transponder and that worked fine
3. the only default setting I changed on my RC4 decoder post install was Squelch which I changed from 30 to 85 to reduce sensitivity. So I changed it to 16
4. tried the car with the MRT PT and it picked it up fine. Strength of 154.
5. I put Squelch pack to 85
6. tried the car with the MRT PT again and it still picked it up fine. Strength of 150+ (didn't note the exact number). I tried it a few more times and it continued to register every single time.
7. I turned off power to the decoder and exited Alycat, waited 30 sec and turned on decoder and waited a further 30 sec and started Alycat.
8. I tried the car with the MRT PT repeatedley and both the decoder and Alycat picked it up every time (tried 4 more times and each time had signal strength of 150+ - which is comaprable to an AMB transponder)

Why didn't it work the first time? No idea. Will it work with other MRT PT's? That's the million dollar question and I will be trying others in due course.

MyLaps

I emailed Koert from MyLaps Sydney about this issue on Sunday and he rang me today. In my limited dealings with Koert he's always been responsive.

He said that they don't test "clone" transponders and don't guarantee they'll work.

He had no idea why my MRT didn't work the first time and then started working.

He advised that MyLaps have an upgrade offer for "clone" transponders where you can trade in your existing transponder for about $40. Not ideal but better than nothing. Details here.

Bottom Line

The optimist in me is hopeful that MRT's will work. My success with a single transponder is positive. More testing is needed with multiple MRT transponders to ensure that a) they all work and b) they work all the time.

I'll be doing more testing over the next week or two (as soon as I can get my hands on club members MRT's) and will report back.

Alycat

There is a discussion on this topic on the Alycat forum here.

Thanks David and others for your input, we have ordered the new decoder, will keep you posted on our outcomes

I've been doing research as well and I think I'm going to hold fire on doing the firmware upgrade at the moment. I'll download it and put it aside so if we "have" to do the upgrade for some reason, we can. We're using Alycat 9.2 so I am not real inclined to change something that is working fine now.

I think it's being partly confirmed that perhaps clone transponders will work erratically on the new RC4 decoders/firmware, something about being able to filter out some of the signal of the clones, because they are not 'exactly' the same as an original, meaning they can effectively render then almost useless by possibly making them unreliable.

There is an interesting thread showing the clones do put out a slightly different signal, meaning in theory you can alter the reading device (decoder) to say drop hits with a perceived dirty or incorrect signal.

Also, while unconfirmed, someone has stated you will need a RC4 decoder (or one able to update to RC4) to pick up the 'new' RC4 transponders, as none of the old decoders/firmwares will, which actually explains the whole current "RC4 Hybrid" transponders, with the mildly confusing 'hybrid' name they called them.

Love to be proven wrong on all this, but the pricing and marketing on this one seems to still suggest otherwise.

I think you're spot on Bishop.

Conducted a test today with dozens of laps from each of 3 different MRT PTx transponders (with our RC4 Decoder) and the MRT's were picked up a little over 50% of the time.

I think the above was random luck. The 2 additional MRT's I tried today worked without adjusting the Squelch setting but then stopped and started working intermittently. 2 cars running MRT's lapped together and sometimes they both were picked up, sometimes neither registered and sometimes one or the other worked. There was no discernible pattern that I could see.

My MRT used above also worked just over 50% of the time during a longer test than I'd initially carried out.

I have also seen this mentioned. The following UK site http://www.bbksoftware.com/ also correctly specified the reliability of the MRT PTx and so carries some weight:
Harry transponders are, I believe, the current MyLaps transponders that look like this:
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/7725/13413256.jpg

Purcy transponders are, I believe, the about to be released MyLaps transponders that the above states will only work with an RC4 decoder.

This seems strange to me that a Purcy wouldn't work with an RC2 or RC3. While it's fair enough that the new features (car ID, voltage, temp) wouldn't work with the older decoders it seems to me that a transponder that won't work at all with older decoders would be a sales and customer service nightmare. Ie; the following hypothetical scenario "I bought the new MyLaps Purcy treansponder but my club runs an older MyLaps decoder and so it doesn't work, give me my money back MyLaps!".

The BBK Software site also has a useful historical explanation of AMB/MyLaps decoders / transponders up to and including the Harry here:

http://www.bbkrclive.com/2010/Offroa.../RC4System.pdf

Yeah I have been off doing even more researching and reading myself today.

If you play out some of this information, it possibly makes more sense as to what is happening here, MyLaps are saying the new RC4 firmware/protocol can read like double the hit rates, line that up with what you found, and yeah, older RC2 signal/packets look like they have been dumped from the newest RC4 transponder.

Actually you could speculate, that maybe the clones default, or pump out more RC2 data packets, then say whatever you want to call the new data packets, if they do, the decoder can then maybe drop hits/passings from a transponder not sending enough of the new data packets. (Pure guessing on my part there)


What all this means, if all true, is clones are about to become near worthless, and clubs are being put in a slightly awkward position in terms of what they do.

Right now I want to get my hands on one of the latest RC4s, so I think I'll sell one of my three hybrids, and get a sub numbered new RC4 based on one of my other RC4 hybrids.

You could say this in itself explains the "RC4 Hybrid", as in the why they bothered, and why they will probably continue to sell it for awhile.

But the whole structure of pricing also reflects a lot, Hybrid is going to be at least 10% more expensive, you only get a 25% discount trade in on a Hybrid, compared to 60% on the newer RC4, I'm guessing the discount on the newer RC4 won't stay as good as that for long, but likely may retain at better than a Hybrid.

Tried to ring MyLaps today but they're on holiday. Not unreasonable given it's Christmas Eve I guess ;)

Unfortunately they haven't listed Christmas closing times on their phone, email or website so will have to wait for them to contact me when they get back :(

We've also shot an email to MRT - they are better organised with an out of office saying they're back on 2 January.

Why would you get rid of RC4 hybrid models if they will still work with the newer system?
From my understanding of what is written on the AMB site, the only difference is the temp and voltage thing. By everyone going to the other RC4, they limit themselves to only being able to run at clubs the have the latest decoder.

But from the clubs side of things if they upgrade, the older AMB units will still work, but inturn force MRT owners to upgrade.

Talk about a rock and a hard place situation.

Does this sound right?

All of which would contravene the drivers' aids regulations.

I went to the trouble of asking MyLaps if the extra info could be turned off in case they added such features. They told me that yes, it could.

Actually, the voltage information could be useful if you are having your laps missed intermittently. It could help diagnose the problem. I'm not sure how sensitive transponders are to temperature though.

But you have to go to the amb site to check it though.

Actually the Hybrid model is likely to become the ideal (most desirable?) version in many ways, as it will continue to work with any system, and I believe it will do temp and voltage if you like that sort of thing, only reason I'm going to sell off one of mine is I want to buy one of the new ones to test.


In terms of a clubs perspective, I find a couple of things interesting, one being as yet I don't know of anyone who actually cares about the temp and voltage features, as long as they count laps, 99.9% of people seem happy.

Other thing is surely the new decoders are going to be a super hard sell once the trade in deal expires, because there is nothing wrong with the current system at all, as a club you could simply tell racers to just make sure they buy a hybrid or mrt if they need a transponder, only MyLaps seems to benefit from pushing the newer model.

Agreed, if it ain't broken.....

Yeah it's pretty annoying with the MRT thing if it can't be solved.
But then if you have the older system you'll have people coming along who have just bought a new transponder and won't be able to use it. Can't expect everyone to know that if they buy a mylaps transponder it won't work with all tracks running a mylaps decoder.

Now you need two decoders and software capable of running them both to keep everyone happy!

So I am a bit confused.....do the new rc4 transponders not work with rc3 decoders?

It's up to the software whether the data is passed on or not, would be fine for club meetings.

If you connected the transponder to the main battery instead of the receiver you could use the voltage data for enduros to get your car off the track before it hits the lipo cut. Not that i'd like to see it used that way..

Only hybrid ones do.
RC4 only ones are cheaper, so guess what people who haven't done their research are gonna buy..

Funny thing is It says nothing about rc4 transponders only being compatible with rc 4 decoders on the website.

http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/aust...c4_transponder

Yeah they don't mention what an RC4 can't do, then on the hybrid RC4 page they say that it works with any decoder.

Quotes from the "How it works" for each model...

RC4 Hybrid...
New RC4...
Subtle, but it's kind of there, when MyLaps started sending out the upgrade offers in October, I sort of looked at the deal being offered, and being basically a cynic and highly suspicious by nature (:lol:), felt it was little too good, so at that point I wanted to wait and see what played out.

Hybrid to be ended
 

According to what Mylaps Australia told me, the RC4 Hybrid transponder will continue to work on all AMB/Mylaps RC decoders, be it RC2, RC3, RC4.
However the new RC4 transponder (not hybrid) currently being offered at a cheap price will ONLY work on an RC4 decoder.

I believe it is Mylaps intention to discontinue the Hybrid. I was placing an order to restock on RC4 transponders and found that Mylaps Australia only had limited stock of the Hybrids left so I purchased all their remaining stock.
I can only assume they will only have the non hybrids in stock now.

I am also believe that the hybrid version does not support the new multi ID function were as the new non hybrid will.

Personally I think all 3 of the new features of the non hybrid transponder are pointless for 99.99% of racers and cannot understand why Mylaps bothered with these features.

I recall when the RC4 hybrid transponder was first announced we were told of these new features and that they would be enabled by a decoder Firmware update.
But it seems Mylaps lied to us on this one unless I have miss-understood something.

The RC4 hybrid transponder that has been sold since about May 2010 until now will work with ALL AMB/Mylaps RC system. RC2, RC3, RC4

However, there is a newer version of the RC4 transponder which is NOT a hybrid (aka Pure or Purcy) and it is that version that will only work with an RC4 decoder.

I have not held a pure RC4 transponder in my hand so do not know if they look the same as the RC4 hybrid or not.

I would think it better to buy a RC4 hybrid transponder while you can still get them as they will work at more tracks. I have stock of them.

All good jeff, I have ordered ones from mylaps, but will now be cancelling my order as they are not compatible with rc3. I will just stick with the 6 working pts I have already :)

No worries, if I can be of further assistance to you or anyone else here about transponders I am happy to help. Racers, race directors, club officials etc are welcome to contact me by phone directly. Details on my web site.

I'm an ex RC racer, race director and club president so I am across the issues.

That is a disturbing twist in events, maybe not all that surprising given what else is happening, but not the sort of thing clubs want to hear.

I honestly think clubs don't have a choice. Every club I know has those club pt's that don't work with a rc4 decoder. I can't really see them purchasing $100 * 12 transponders plus a decoder for ppl that don't have their own. Not too many clubs have a lazy $1200 laying around.

Plus the backwards compatibility issues make it a no brainer. Amb are digging themselves a hole as the only option will be to buy a mrt if they go to rc4 only.

Bishop,

I see youve sold one of your 'RC4 Hybrid' Transponders.

Have you bought one of the new RC4 (RC4 dedicated Decoder) Transponders.

Is that to experiment with, as the way I understand whats going on here, it wont work with the EPR decoder will it?. Isnt EPR the RC3 Decoder.

------------------------------------
So my understanding is the new 'dedicated RC4 transponders' will only work with the 'latest new RC4 Decoder', so wont all clubs continue to run the older system for as many years as they can.

Many club members may already have a few older transponders setup in different cars, so replacing them at $135 a piece would be avoided by trying to ensure their club does not update to the latest 'RC4 Dedicated Decoder'.

It's a little confusing, EPR has a RC3 decoder, MRT/AMB/MyLaps Hybrid will work on it, if we upgrade to a RC4 decoder, AMB/MyLaps Hybrid and new RC4 will work.

If we do not upgrade, from what we know right now, new RC4 won't work, actually new RC4's may not work unless the timing software is also upgraded, because their is a sub number involved with the new RC4 transponders, if the timing system does not know that, it may cause issues with the timing software.

And yes, I have ordered a 'new' RC4, and specifically a sub numbered version based off a number on one of my hybrids, cause you can now order up to 6 extra transponders with the same primary number as your original, I figure it's likely to be the most complex to possibly test, maybe.
Don't know how lone it will take to get though, they are saying 5 working days plus to ship, if they are shipping them out, don't know if the stock is even there, have heard of no one with a 'new' RC4 yet.

Certainly is confusing. Too many 'maybes', that 'Mylaps' havnt adequately addressed.

1. If EPR doesnt upgrade to the RC4 Decoder, then the new RC4 Transponders will not work.

2. If EPR does upgrade to the RC4 Decoder, then AMB/MyLaps Hybrid and new RC4 will work....Possibly... but only if we upgrade the timing software.

3. But... If EPR upgrades to the RC4 Decoder and the new timing software, wouldnt there then be a risk that some or all of the MRT/AMB/MyLaps Hybrid will not work... as thats what im reading into the many posts on this thread and from the Mylaps website.

Guess it would be good to try at other tracks in the area. I assume the other tracks in the Brisbane region arnt using to new RC4 system yet though.

Ive just bought a couple of RC4 Hybrids, just glad I didnt order the new RC4 as I wasnt aware of this 'New RC4' transponder that wouldnt have worked yet.

Also hoping the two RC4 Hybrids Ive just bought wont be obsolete and worthless soon.

Just trying to get a handle on this. It all 'stinks' a bit of the microsoft of old.

I was going to suggest to our club that we take advantage of the offer to upgrade our RC2 to the new RC4 Decoder . Glad I didn't as we have a lot of MRT Transponders in use that it seems don't work with the new decoder.

Sounds like there will be some clubs out there who took advantage of the offer and will have some unhappy members when they realise their MRT transponders will be useless. Can't even resort back to their old decoder if you took advantage of the deal as you had to send them your old decoder as a trade in.

Glad we didn't jump the gun!