Sort of, the new RC4 decoders/firmware seems more about locking out cloned transponders mainly made by MRT in England.

Way back when, AMB created one of I think three timing systems for RC cars, it was always a very expensive system, transponders were not cheap either (ever), known issues with the personals when they came out, was fragile wires, and they were not real tolerant to low voltage or poor placement.

MRT in England bypassed some licensing issues (you own 'that' number when you buy one) by basically buying old AMB transponders and keeping them to retain the license rights, their transponder came out with being able to select one of 10 or 11 numbers, or they could clone your existing AMB so you can have a whole bundle of transponders with the same number off your original AMB (Which was popular with a lot of professional racers, many of whom still own original version MRTs).

Advantages of the MRT was it was then made smaller (with user replaceable wires), and to cope with lower voltage, while putting out a stronger signal, and like I said you could have a bunch of cars/transponders, while only ever needing to remember one number.


MyLaps merged or bought out AMB at some later point here, and began getting aggressive again, AMB became MyLaps, and they started working on the "RC4 Hybrid", although in the early stages it was just being called the RC4, and there was a crap load of talk about RC4 firmware and the wonders it would bring, with many new features.

In fact early promises were clones of one number simular to MRT, also the temp and voltage, and I know very early in the sales pitch they were also talking of replaceable wires, then somewhere in all this, it just fell flat, then the announcement came out you could pre-order their new RC4 Hybrid (which I did at the time, so I had one of the first in Brisbane), and they really pushed the sales promising all sorts of stuff once again.

The new RC4 Hybrid did deliver on some things, smaller, tougher, certainly a stronger signal, and works to a lower and higher voltage range (the cynic in me wants to say basically what the MRT already delivered), but after that it just died big time, none of the RC4 promises went anywhere, it's like they pulled the plug on something, cause it all went quiet, no extra numbered version, temp and voltage sensors doing nothing etc.

And now, two years later, what we have is some of what was promised two years ago, except with some really odd twists.


I can't help but feel somewhere along the way, MyLaps decided they 'really' wanted to seal up their market again by sabotaging the clones, also with perhaps deciding they wanted to sell more transponders again, hence a new version locked into their new firmware, all guaranteed to sell more decoders and more transponders.

The cynic in my once again feels part of their strategy, was an almost bait and switch sales strategy, offer deals that looks overly appealing, and blanket claim a certain level of dumbness to do with clones, also leaving out some of the finer details of RC4 firmware and what it will mean for clubs.

But after that super long winded minor history rant, be assured for now, it's likely AMB personals and MyLaps Hybrids will continue to work regardless of decoder system, or at least till maybe they decide they need a RC4.1 firmware upgrade (to improve reliability of course), that may knock off original AMB transponders or some such silliness.

Though did RC need any of this?, AMB RC3 decoders never put a foot wrong really, and there is nothing wrong with the existing function of the MRT, AMB, or Hybrid, they all count laps, anything more actually now seems a bad trade off when you look at what is happening.

Just like to add something positive to this whole discussion. Just spoke with the mylaps guys re cancelling an order and was dealt with very professionally and courteously.

We discussed the new system and I brought up some of the issues. Most professional place I have dealt with in rc for quite some time :)

Earlier this month Mylaps informed me the the RC4 hybrid will work and continue to work on ALL AMB RC systems.
Namely AMB RC2, AMB RC3, Mylaps RC3 and Mylaps RC4.
The rechargeable AMBrc (handout, club) transponder will also continue to work on all those systems.

So it is only the Pure RC4 transponder that has limitations, so to me the hybrid seems to be more desirable than the Pure.

I have been told the handouts will not work with the new rc4 decoders?

I was told in my discussions with Mylaps that the only transponders that wouldn't work with the RC4 decoder were the very early black ones,
I haven't ever seen these though
Hope I wasn't taken for a ride

AMB20
 

The "black ones" Mylaps are referring to are AMB20 rechargeable transponders.
They are the same shape as the AMBrc rechargeable hand out, but are analogue and came in sets of 1-10 or 1-20 so there was only ever 20 numbers produced so personal transponders were not possible with that system.
These have only ever been compatible with the AMB20 system and has never been compatible with any of the RC systems.

Bishop's post #41 sums it all up pretty well and I agree.
Just one point.
The company was originally AMBi.t. and merged with ChampionChip to form the new company name Mylaps. I believe it was a move to increase their market share (dominate all sports timing) and attempt to shake off the bad baggage of the AMB name.

RC is minor section of there market when compared to Karting, Motocross, Speedway and so on.

Bit of rock and a hard place. What are you going to do when racers turn up with a pure RC4 transponders, it's not going to work either!

Mylaps have had the good offer of trading in your RC2 for an RC3 available for about 2 years and while the price was a bit expensive (about $2K if I recall correctly) I thought it was wise to take advantage of that offer and recommended clubs do it if they could afford it.
The RC3 was much better beast than the RC2 which was a bit of a lame duck in comparison.
That offer has gone since the latest RC4 issue.

But this latest trade from RC3 to RC4 is a whole new can of worms.
The fact that the pure RC4 transponder (non hybrid) will only work with RC4 decoder is sh*te and just seems like a tactic to force elimination of RC2 and RC3 decoders.

I think what will happen is clubs won't change over and will recommend the mrts as the new rc4 won't work. Basically they will end up losing sales with these tactics.

I don't envy any club who has to make the choice to trade in a decoder, as it locks them into something either way (although new decoders are a hell strong lure), for some clubs it may be a very unpopular move to upgrade, as I have read of a few where use of MRT transponders is very common, often accounting for half their racers.

After trying my hardest to stay away from my own club for a few weeks during our off season break (and failing), I went in to check our decoders today, and it looks good for us, as both our decoders are just able to firmware update to RC4, giving us the flexibility to choose not to update for now, with no risk involved, and the best options to maybe just move one to RC4 if we choose, when we choose.

I'm guessing once any firmware version is flashed to RC4, it's going to lock out any chance of a user level back flash to a RC3 version, which is a shame, as I'd like to see clubs given that option, given the situation they have been put in, but I'd guess that would defeat the point of what MyLaps is doing.


You know when you look at the MyLaps site in great detail, you do realize RC is a very small part of their products, but then you also realize the exact same decoders are used for everything, just obviously with firmware changes to suit use and specific transponders.
Saying that, after browsing earlier, I was like WTF when I saw they do a transponder for running/cycling etc, small and has a battery that lasts 5 years, and works up to 75kph, talk about an ideal new club transponder design...

As Jeff (bigfix) said, club handout transponders (like those in the attached picture) will work with the RC4 decoder. I have tested this and they work. The attached are not the older black AMB20 club transponders.

I own an MRT (and several AMB's) and the MRT has worked well in the past. However, with the new situation where the RC4 decoders do not reliably read MRT's I, as a race director and club president, would not recommend MRT's to our members going forward because they will not work at our club (or any club with an RC4 decoder).

Given the interesting history info from Bishop and bigfix it seems like MRT were dancing around AMB's copyright and MyLaps have called them on it. Fair one. But MyLaps should have provided full information from the start and then we wouldn't be doing our own testing and comparing notes.

Agreed.

If anyone has actually seen and tried an RC4 Pure (purcy) transponder that would be useful feedback. My understanding from Alycat is that a software upgrade will be necessary to read a Purcy transponder at all (ie; can't count laps from a Purcy without the software upgrade because it communicates differently). Fair one. Alycat are in the same boat as the rest of us, trying to figure out what MyLaps are doing!

So I wouldn't be buying a Purcy anytime soon until the dust settles on the RC4 decoder and the Alycat software is available to read it! One assumes that if you use MyLaps Timing Software then it already works with the Purcy but given the way this has been launched that may be an incorrect assumption LOL!

Our club has had our RC2 Decoder for a number of years and it seems to work perfectly fine. Never really have an issue with it.

Can anyone give me an idea of what benefits we would see with an RC4 or even an RC3 ?

I'm keen to put a case fwd to our committee to upgrade if we would benefit from it.

I am very familiar with most of the Mylaps and AMB products because I service and repair ALL types of transponders, multi charging cases and decoders.

All the current Mylaps decoders all look the same on the outside.
I have two later style decoders, 1 is an AMBrc3 decoder and the other is a AMB TranX decoder.
The latter is used for full size motor sports such as speedway and karts. Both look the same inside.

As Bishop says and I agree, the firmware in each type of decoder makes the difference.
I believe it would be possible to make one of these decoders work with ALL of the Mylaps/AMB transponders with the right firmware.
But it is most likely not in Mylaps business interests to do this.

At $3,800AUD Australian retail price seems rather high for what you can see inside a TranX/AMBrc decoder in the photo below.
My high spec Toshiba Qosmio laptop only cost $1,400AUD and I used to service laptops and know there is more in them than a decoder.

http://www.transponderservices.com/i...der-inside.jpg

Active race directors may have other views and opinions to add, but here is my take on it.

The AMBrc3 or Mylaps RC3 decoder has a screen which displays hits and noise levels. I see this as an advantage over the RC2 because you can see straight away if there is an issue with the loop system.
The other advantage is that the RC3 has an Ethernet port so it can be connected to a network and several PCs can receive the data.
If the decoder is connected to the internet and registered on the Mylaps web site practice data can be looked at by any of your racers.
I know of an Aussie club that has a decoder on all the time at there track so that racers can get their practice data online.
Connection between the decoder and the PC can also be done directly using a crossover Ethernet cable so no network is needed but you need to set static IP addresses in the PC and decoder for this to work.
This eliminates the need for using a USB to RS232 adaptor which is some cases can be unreliable.
If using one of these I recommend a quality adaptor such as a Belkin with the three lights on it.

Just to recap, I used to recommend that clubs with RC2 decoders take advantage of the Mylaps trade up offer to RC3 as it was a reasonable deal at around $2K to swap.
The recommendation was because of the screen, Ethernet and future proofing because the RC3 could take firmware updates but the RC2 cannot.

However, in light of the MRT and Pure RC4 transponders I am unable to make a recommendation on the swap to RC4 as the pros and cons will have different impact on each club.
So each club needs to weigh up the issues to make the best choice for their situation.

I think the current generation decoder is very good, they did a fair bit to improve it's reliability, and the display allows you to see in real time your loop noise etc, so you can see where any problems arise with that, and alter the sensitivity to drop false passings from things passing around the loop area.

The network connection I believe was a big jump in terms of best connection option, the creator of our timing software believes it's the best possible connection method in terms of being most reliable.

We have both our decoders on networks, the primary lives on a main network and has a fixed IP address, and any computer connected to that network can receive timing data, so good for a primary and backup setup for major events, also while doing that it can actively upload results to the internet onto MyLaps.

Our second decoder actually sits on a second system hooked into some wifi, it stays on 24/7 and people who practice during the week etc can get live timing feeds of their laptops or Android phones.

Thanks guys. Our club will probably update our old laptop to a new one and latest Alycat but might hold off on the decoder till this plays out a bit longer.
Interesting you mention the Serial/USB converter Jeff. I remember earlier in the year trying to get our decoder to work on my new laptop. I bought a Serial/USB converter from Jaycar. I could never get it to work though. Couldn't recognise the Decoder at all. I put it down to being a Windows 7 thing and gave up. Now we do want to buy a new computer though. It might have been the Serial/USB converter not doing it's job. I did read there are problems with some brands.

Do you know of a particular brand/model that is known to work with the AMB2 ?

I had tried a few USB/Serial adaptors and naturally went for the cheaper ones first.
However the best one I found is a Belkin F5S409, it has always worked in the many situations I've used it for.
I do some work for a friend in the audiovisual industry and load programming into Crestron control gear and initial connection to Crestron processors is done by RS232 and Crestron recommend the Belkin F5S409.

http://www.belkin.com/au/p/P-F5U409

When you connect the USB/Serial adaptor to your computer the first time you usually need to go into the Device Manager and look to see which COM port number has been assigned to the adaptor and then adjust Alycat or whatever software you are using to match the COM port number.
After that it should remain on the same COM each time you use it, however if it decides not to work, check the Device Manager as it may have reassigned the COM port number.
You can change it in the Device Manager.

The other key part is to ensure the serial cable is the correct type.
There is straight wired and crossover wired.
I make my own serial cables and for the decoder you need one that is wired so that when the serial cable is plugged back into itself the same wires are on the same pins.
Bit rusty on this but I think this means it is a crossover cable.

Toshiba kept using serial ports on their laptops until a couple of years ago, have a look at the Toshiba Tecra M10 it's fast enough to do anything race control needs to do. I use an older Tecra A3 currently and it's fine.

Appreciate the info Jeff!! Wish I knew all that a while back.

Will prob make a final decision tomorrow but looks like we will do the trade in.
We have a full set of working Club transponders so people with MRT can use those till they upgrade.
Does anyone know the turnaround time for the trade ins ? Do we send to an aussie address or overseas ? Don't want to get to the start of our season and have no decoder!

I've asked MyLaps some questions but no answers yet.

Thanks for the heads up Bugle! If we keep our current system will def look into one of those. Just googled and found a refurbished one for $280!

What we did:

- Ordered it from MyLaps Sydney (via email to Koert of MyLaps)
- they issued an invoice
- we paid the invoice (direct bank deposit) and sent our old decoder on Monday (to Sydney). We explained that we run 24 x 7 timing and wanted the new decoder ASAP and they said no problem
- we received our new decoder (from Sydney) on the Friday so it was a 5 day turnaround for us

Given the value of the decoders we specified must sign and insurance in both directions.

Suggest you double check this with Koert but that's how it worked for us.

Thanks Stevo. That sounds good. Do you have Koerts email ? Might be easier to deal direct rather than through the website.

Cheers

Koert at Mylaps (NSW Australia) can also be contacted by phone 02 9546 2606.
I have dealt with him many times and has always been great to deal with.

Physical and Postal address...
Mylaps
Suite 3
292 Princes Highway
Carss Park
NSW 2221

We were a 3 day turnaround from the time they received our old decoder
Very impressive effort

Serial port users!!

I purchased this unit,
Sabrent SBT-USC1M Cable Adapter - 1' ft, USB 2.0 to DB9,

It works fine IF you use the drivers from 2008. If you update driver, it will install newest drivers from 2012, and it will not work at all. I used this with our club many times using our old RC2 decoder. There were no issues at all. As mentioned earlier, make sure you know which com port it is on..
We now have the RC4 decoder, and it did work fine with Alycat in serial mode. We have 20 rechargeable house transponders, and it counted them fine, and also the hybrids. I am waiting to find a new pure RC4 transponder, and try it out..

FYI for you..

Thanks JimmyG.
Our club has now decided we will update to RC4. No more messing around with Serial Ports!
We also have the 20 Club Transponders so guys using MRT will need to use those for now.

I tried a pure RC4 transponder with RC4 decoder in serial mode and it worked fine alongside older transponders. So if you're running serial there's no software changes needed.

RC3 transponder on RC4
 

Hi guys,

Ive read through the thread but most of the discussion is about MRT and RC4 transponders.

Will my RC3 transponders work with the RC4 decoder?? I have 2 Rc3s and 1 RC4 hybrid right now.

Thanks

Ray

Hi Ray

RC3's and RC4 Hybrids will work with the RC4 Decoder, no problem.

Cheers

Dave

Ok thanks!

How long till MRT make a new transponder that works with the new RC4 gear:sneaky::lol::D

As a new racer, and saving money on transponders by buying the MRT's, then this is not the best news i have ever heard, i will NOT be rebuying MyLaps anything in protest of this.

This is a good move by MyLaps to get rid of their competion in the short term, but i think when a new MRT comes out, it may just bite MyLaps on arse, as i think a lot of people will remember this, and every one likes to save money:sneaky:

so you save what $20 at the most on a cheaper copy version? yet we all pay $$$$ for our race cars dont make sense to me to skimp on the most important part of your system mate , no timing no racing hmmm each to there own :lol: :lol: :lol: thats not the way i would be looking at it though its up to you mate :rolleyes:

MRT = $89
Mylaps RC4 = $100.93

I know for $11 I'd rather use the system that is recognised as the official RC timing.

Savings are bit better than $11:D either way $11 is $11.

I do support the fact that MyLaps are trying to protect their business, but it seems shifty the way they have done it, with out telling the clubs what will happen.

I have not raced much at all, this year is going to be the year though, and untill the tracks upgrade i am in the clear, but seeing as i don't race that much it is easy to stop.

And what about the people that have more than one transponder?

If MyLaps took MRT to court and got them to stop selling theirs as a breach of Patent, then yes i would agree with MyLaps, but seeing as they tried to back door every one, then no i wont.

I wait eagerly for a new MRT to buy, even if it is more:lol:

Im not sure about other countries, but MyLaps Australia has offered a very cheap upgrade offer for anyone using the clones or rc3 transponders. At the end of the day, its a mylaps system, for the small extra outlay when i have already outlayed in excess of $1300+ dollars on the car alone, i personally would by the brand that is garanteed to work with a patented system.

After some serious testing I can now share the following which I am very confident of. Where I'm unsure of something or it's an opinion I'll state it. The rest are verified facts through personal testing. All of this personal testing has been bounced around with industry sources, overseas tracks using Alycat with an RC4 Decoder, and emails with MyLaps to make sure I'm not missing anything:

Test equipment:

- MyLaps RC4 Decoder
- AMB Club Transponders
- AMBrc personal transponders (codenamed Pete)
- MyLaps RC4 Hybrid transponders (codenamed Harold)
- MyLaps RC4 "Pure" transponders (codenamed Purcy)

For clarity pictures of each transponder are included at the end of this post.

The codenames are used in the industry - honest I didn't make them up ;)

Alycat 9.3.1.86 is the current release of Alycat and we are using it live at TFTR. We ran our first race meeting with it and the RC4 Decoder on Sunday 13 Jan.

All of the transponders listed above work with this version of Alycat, including the RC4 Pure, in that they all register when they cross the loop. The advanced temperature, voltage and Car ID information is not available (although I have seen this information in a Beta version of Alycat).

What is left to test then?

a. Where a racer buys an "RC4 Custom Transponder" which is an RC4 Pure with a transponder number chosen by the racer. While there shouldn't be any issues with this it needs to be tested.

b. Where a racer buys "RC4 Car ID" which is for multiple transponder purchases. Say you have 3 cars and want the same transponder number for all 3 eg; 7654321 (assuming it's available). MyLaps will sell you 3 transponders with that number but they will have an extra digit called a Car ID. The transponders will be 7654321-0, 7654321-1, 7654321-2 and if you run a Transponder Test in the Beta version of Alycat they will look exactly like this when they cross the loop ie; XXXXXXX-X. One of the racers at TFTR has ordered a couple of these and we'll be testing them when they arrive. I suspect that they will work in the current version of Alycat but all 3 may simply show the 7 digit transponder number 7654321 when they cross the loop. But this last sentence is opinion and needs testing.

MyLaps online shop http://www.mylaps.com/index.php/aust...s/B2C/rc/shop2 (so that you can see what "a." and "b." above are referring to)

c. Remember MyLaps have stated that if you don't have an RC4 decoder that you won't be able to read RC4 transponders. I'm keen to test this as well. If you are a track in Melbourne with Alycat and an RC2 or RC3 decoder and want to see if an RC4 Pure transponder will work at your track then drop me a PM.

How to tell an RC4 Hybrid apart from an RC4 Pure:- they use the same case but the Pure has a 3 letter code called a TCV printed on the case above and to the left of the transponder number. The RC4 Pure also has a white data wire (which the Hybrid does not have) in addition to the red and black. MyLaps tell me the TCV is used by MyLaps as a checksum for the Car ID. The two RC4 Pure's I have access to have different TCV's.

And the pics for reference:

- AMB Club Transponders (left)
- AMBrc personal transponders (codenamed Pete) (2nd from left)
- MyLaps RC4 Hybrid transponders (codenamed Harold) (3rd from left)
- MyLaps RC4 "Pure" transponders (codenamed Purcy) (right)

Hi David
How are you finding the aleycat 9.3 version with the Rc4 decoder?
Any problems encountered?
We are looking at upgrading from 9.1 with ours and are just trying to get a heads up on this
P.S. we have had no transponder issues so far ( all amb and my laps versions tried so far are working and signal strength is much much better)
Cheers
Lee

Hi Lee

So you've received your RC4 Decoder?

9.3.1.86 is a good stable version and has some enhancements over 9.1 which we like.

However, if 9.1 is working well for you then I'd wait until 9.3.2 is out of Beta and released as it will have support for RC4 Car ID's. Timeframe unknown as testing is still being worked through.

Feel free to email me anytime [email protected].

Cheers

Dave