21.5 Brushless vs 540 Silver Can - Time to change?
11-02-2009, 04:18 AM
#16
Has anyone compared the differences in performance over a larger track, say like Whalan ?? Curious to see how much faster the b/l is.......I expect that the gap would widen more, especially with a timing advance esc.
I know I certainly don't miss the maintenance
I know I certainly don't miss the maintenance
11-02-2009, 02:17 PM
#17
With the results from the test meeting we had at Windsor Hobby's there is not much difference in combinations of speed control and motor. We had 14-16 drivers Ben Cribbin was running 540 and Splitty was running the lower hobbywing system. Ben was about middle of the pack with a 540 and made the A final splitty TQ and went away to win with also do the fastest time. We took records of what drivers were running and changes through the meeting. If you look at the fastest times its quite close.
This is the Link: http://www.windsorhobbies.com.au/res...IndexFile.html
Don't know how it would go on bigger tracks all testing has been done on smaller ones
This is the Link: http://www.windsorhobbies.com.au/res...IndexFile.html
Don't know how it would go on bigger tracks all testing has been done on smaller ones
11-02-2009, 03:48 PM
#18
The reason I ask about larger tracks,is that I've been told that the SPX makes a bigger gain on them.
Around Windsor , the SPX yields .2 - .3 second for me , over my budget Havoc speedy.
Whrc has a brand new SPX on the shelf for under 300 clams. I thing the Team Wave speedy,
Which others are raving about, is almost half the price.
Last week in stock ,my pb lap was only a few thousandths faster than a guy running an RB30 + same motor .
I don't think mandating a sensorless esc Is a good idea. Better to have one that grows with your skill. (I.e. 10.5)
Rollout limits only disadvantage those with a non adv. Esc. And add extra tech B.S.
My 2c . ( not worth much really)
Around Windsor , the SPX yields .2 - .3 second for me , over my budget Havoc speedy.
Whrc has a brand new SPX on the shelf for under 300 clams. I thing the Team Wave speedy,
Which others are raving about, is almost half the price.
Last week in stock ,my pb lap was only a few thousandths faster than a guy running an RB30 + same motor .
I don't think mandating a sensorless esc Is a good idea. Better to have one that grows with your skill. (I.e. 10.5)
Rollout limits only disadvantage those with a non adv. Esc. And add extra tech B.S.
My 2c . ( not worth much really)
11-02-2009, 04:19 PM
#19
No. They are not even.
540 should be kept as it is what comes in all Tamiya Kits.
With brushless there is the 'turbo' feature on the Tekin's and timing advances on many other speedies. This all adds cost as to be competitive you must have the correct settings for the track you are racing at.
Quite often this leads to bring laptops to update the software for your toy car.
540 is one of the remaining real fun classes, where you can put a motor in, gear it reasonably aggressive and still be competitive.
At the moment you could still take a basic TA05 kit and run it reasonable successfully provided you can get the gearing close to what suits the track.
Brushless does not provide that same ability.
540 should be kept as it is what comes in all Tamiya Kits.
With brushless there is the 'turbo' feature on the Tekin's and timing advances on many other speedies. This all adds cost as to be competitive you must have the correct settings for the track you are racing at.
Quite often this leads to bring laptops to update the software for your toy car.
540 is one of the remaining real fun classes, where you can put a motor in, gear it reasonably aggressive and still be competitive.
At the moment you could still take a basic TA05 kit and run it reasonable successfully provided you can get the gearing close to what suits the track.
Brushless does not provide that same ability.
11-02-2009, 06:33 PM
#20
Fleety,
The concept of using a cheap sensorless system has several advantages over going down the 21.5 track:
* Firstly you get the whole system (motor, ESC and program card) for virtually the same price as a 21.5 motor
* You get equal racing because everyone is using the same ESC.(see the Mini class since introduction of the Hobbywing system) The problem with 21.5 is that racers will end up chasing the latest and greatest ESC which will turn 21.5 into a very expensive class.
* The argument of going sensored as the ESC will grow with you is non existant as the whole sensorless system is the same cost so if you move up a class you will not lose anything as the system can be sold on to other racers and you are no worse off than before. And dont forget by the time someone moves up a class the sensored ESC will be outdated and they will need the "latest and gretest"
The 21.5 or Novice or whatever you want to call it is supposed to be a budget entry class , not a full on expense class of racing.
No doubt some people will see my comments as pushing my own agenda but I will always be able to sell systems not matter what happens.
The concept of using a cheap sensorless system has several advantages over going down the 21.5 track:
* Firstly you get the whole system (motor, ESC and program card) for virtually the same price as a 21.5 motor
* You get equal racing because everyone is using the same ESC.(see the Mini class since introduction of the Hobbywing system) The problem with 21.5 is that racers will end up chasing the latest and greatest ESC which will turn 21.5 into a very expensive class.
* The argument of going sensored as the ESC will grow with you is non existant as the whole sensorless system is the same cost so if you move up a class you will not lose anything as the system can be sold on to other racers and you are no worse off than before. And dont forget by the time someone moves up a class the sensored ESC will be outdated and they will need the "latest and gretest"
The 21.5 or Novice or whatever you want to call it is supposed to be a budget entry class , not a full on expense class of racing.
No doubt some people will see my comments as pushing my own agenda but I will always be able to sell systems not matter what happens.
11-03-2009, 05:05 AM
#21
No. They are not even.
540 should be kept as it is what comes in all Tamiya Kits.
With brushless there is the 'turbo' feature on the Tekin's and timing advances on many other speedies. This all adds cost as to be competitive you must have the correct settings for the track you are racing at.
Quite often this leads to bring laptops to update the software for your toy car.
540 is one of the remaining real fun classes, where you can put a motor in, gear it reasonably aggressive and still be competitive.
At the moment you could still take a basic TA05 kit and run it reasonable successfully provided you can get the gearing close to what suits the track.
Brushless does not provide that same ability.
540 should be kept as it is what comes in all Tamiya Kits.
With brushless there is the 'turbo' feature on the Tekin's and timing advances on many other speedies. This all adds cost as to be competitive you must have the correct settings for the track you are racing at.
Quite often this leads to bring laptops to update the software for your toy car.
540 is one of the remaining real fun classes, where you can put a motor in, gear it reasonably aggressive and still be competitive.
At the moment you could still take a basic TA05 kit and run it reasonable successfully provided you can get the gearing close to what suits the track.
Brushless does not provide that same ability.
Fleety,
The concept of using a cheap sensorless system has several advantages over going down the 21.5 track:
* Firstly you get the whole system (motor, ESC and program card) for virtually the same price as a 21.5 motor
* You get equal racing because everyone is using the same ESC.(see the Mini class since introduction of the Hobbywing system) The problem with 21.5 is that racers will end up chasing the latest and greatest ESC which will turn 21.5 into a very expensive class.
* The argument of going sensored as the ESC will grow with you is non existant as the whole sensorless system is the same cost so if you move up a class you will not lose anything as the system can be sold on to other racers and you are no worse off than before. And dont forget by the time someone moves up a class the sensored ESC will be outdated and they will need the "latest and gretest"
The 21.5 or Novice or whatever you want to call it is supposed to be a budget entry class , not a full on expense class of racing.
No doubt some people will see my comments as pushing my own agenda but I will always be able to sell systems not matter what happens.
The concept of using a cheap sensorless system has several advantages over going down the 21.5 track:
* Firstly you get the whole system (motor, ESC and program card) for virtually the same price as a 21.5 motor
* You get equal racing because everyone is using the same ESC.(see the Mini class since introduction of the Hobbywing system) The problem with 21.5 is that racers will end up chasing the latest and greatest ESC which will turn 21.5 into a very expensive class.
* The argument of going sensored as the ESC will grow with you is non existant as the whole sensorless system is the same cost so if you move up a class you will not lose anything as the system can be sold on to other racers and you are no worse off than before. And dont forget by the time someone moves up a class the sensored ESC will be outdated and they will need the "latest and gretest"
The 21.5 or Novice or whatever you want to call it is supposed to be a budget entry class , not a full on expense class of racing.
No doubt some people will see my comments as pushing my own agenda but I will always be able to sell systems not matter what happens.
11-03-2009, 05:20 PM
#22
I say leave the motor rules the way they are , But limit it to cheaper car kits like TA05's - Cyclone S or any bath tub or entry level type chassis.
I'm sick of going to races & seeing $500 + top of the line cars running $20 540 motor .
I'm sick of going to races & seeing $500 + top of the line cars running $20 540 motor .
11-03-2009, 06:46 PM
#23
That is never going to happen,as a lot of new drivers prefer to buy a used Xray or TRF, than a budget car.
It makes no sense to turn new comers away because of their chassis brand.
I think 21.5 are a little too quick for a beginner and the jump to stock is more of a stumble.
I agree with some of Cannon's points as well. I also think the HobbyWing that Splitty ran had potential to be faster again.
Was that one a 1900kv motor ? If it was ,perhaps a 1500-1700 may be more suited to the job.
Anyhow, debate is good. Keep it constructive ...
It makes no sense to turn new comers away because of their chassis brand.
I think 21.5 are a little too quick for a beginner and the jump to stock is more of a stumble.
I agree with some of Cannon's points as well. I also think the HobbyWing that Splitty ran had potential to be faster again.
Was that one a 1900kv motor ? If it was ,perhaps a 1500-1700 may be more suited to the job.
Anyhow, debate is good. Keep it constructive ...
11-03-2009, 07:03 PM
#24
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Wow, who'da thought that I'd be the one to start a constructive topic, AND one that wasn't even about Minis! 
11-03-2009, 07:24 PM
#25
Hi
Would this work ?
Only 2000 KV so 14800 rpm at 7.4v
See ya
Would this work ?
Only 2000 KV so 14800 rpm at 7.4v
See ya
11-03-2009, 08:11 PM
#26
11-03-2009, 10:13 PM
#27
4 weeks? Whats happens then...?
11-03-2009, 10:46 PM
#28
Don't take this the wrong way, but what I saw at a state event, was $600+ carbon cars covered with alloy, running a $20 motor, lets not even look at the $500 worth of radio gear...
Yeah I know it's not all new cars, so maybe not worth that much, but still come on, something about the whole debate makes no sense to me, but then I'm still trying to figure out how you put the nitro fuel in the lipo case, or what conversion process makes that turn the engine...
Yeah I know it's not all new cars, so maybe not worth that much, but still come on, something about the whole debate makes no sense to me, but then I'm still trying to figure out how you put the nitro fuel in the lipo case, or what conversion process makes that turn the engine...
11-03-2009, 10:53 PM
#29
I missed you post on the first read, that was one of my first thoughts when I was watching electric, where is the non carbon class?, plastic/fiberglass tub chassis only, limited motor, from what I have seen electric runs some mad expensive gear in all classes.
11-03-2009, 11:09 PM
#30
I also think there is room for an rtr type class, limited to tub type chassis with an affordable power combo.
I know that many new guys to racing will buy a 2nd hand Xray or whatever, but the hobby shops still sell plenty of RTR kits. Cars like TA05 and TB01/02 from Tamiya, HB Cyclone S, the tub version of the TC4/TC5 etc.
I know that many new guys to racing will buy a 2nd hand Xray or whatever, but the hobby shops still sell plenty of RTR kits. Cars like TA05 and TB01/02 from Tamiya, HB Cyclone S, the tub version of the TC4/TC5 etc.