21.5 Brushless vs 540 Silver Can - Time to change?
 

Time to arouse a bit of debate I think.

21.5 brushless, is it the way of the future for the 540 classes?

Certainly the lap times are comparable there's no problem with that, so in performance terms they are quite similar (with a slight advantage to the brushless)

But there are other aspects to consider as well. The cost for one. Any way you look at it you're up for a $300 purchase as opposed to a $20 motor and any cheap-arse ESC.

I have no strong opinion one way or the other, I don't even run Touring Cars as most of you know. But I'm still interested to know what people are thinking.

Certainly the Templestowe Club in Melb are looking at it already, but is it the way to go?
Maybe there's an affordable 'combo' (like the ones used in Mini) that will offer similar performance also, but without the $300 price tag.

So?.....

A similar concept can be achieved to the Mini system by simply using a lower kv rated motor. The manufacturer of the motor for the Hobbywing system motor makes motors in a lot lower kv rating.

It was played with here in Sydney but was eliminated because it was quicker in some areas than a 21.5 which is not what the comparison should have been about. THe test was supposed to find a system that could replace brushed motors. 21.5 is far faster than 540 silver can but as said it will cost a fortune for supposably a beginner class. At least a Hobbywing style system is cheap (only the cost of a 21.5)

I'm running a SP V3 21.5 in my F1 car at the moment and using the Hobby Wing speedie both for it's low dollar cost and for it's small footprint. Works great and feels a lot like a 540, Haven't tried it in a TC at all.

You could run "540 Novice" and "21.5 Pro" or limit the roll out of the 21.5.

One thing every body is missing the point is that we are not talking about clubs classes. As we have found out that people will still run 540 because in most cases thats what comes with the kit. Nobody will spend and extra for a motor when they are just getting into the sport. 540 has to stay at club level. All this about is the in between events CC and any state inter club events. If you look at say the top 15-20 drivers in NSW that run 540 at CC last year most are running brushless speed controls anyway and one motor for the whole year is not a big jump. With also now approved motor list in ROAR, BRCA and EFRA ease to tech.
Until the manufactures release kits with brushless systems in them I think we are left with 540 at club level.

What were the laptimes compared with 17.5? Shouldnt those top guys in 540 be able to handle 17.5. Originally i read that those guys that were still running 540 were doing so because of cost or because they were still learning. It seems by introducing a 21.5 AND a 540 class that you're just creating an extra class.

21.5 brushless would be good. A lot of drivers can use about 2,3 maybe even 4 silvercan motors in a year and with a shop price of $25-$30, adds up to a brushless motor anyway. I think that, like the black sports tuned motor, the silvercan 540 is becoming increasing inconsistant which is why 17.5 numbers have been swelling. The only real budget advantage i'm finding in 540 Pro over 17.5 at the moment is tyre life.

I dont agree with a specific brushless speedy/combo for Pro. Many people may already have brushless speedies which they would use, then only have to buy a 21.5 motor.

I will be looking forward to discussing this with the guys at the Templestowe masters in a couple of weeks.

Good topic by the way Tony:nod:

Brushless would be good cause then you will be able to inter-change the motor and move up a class easily or even run difference classes from week to week.

Wouldn't this be a great benefit for allowing brushless in 540?

Hello all,
I had concerns about changing over to 21.5 brushless, because of the cost of the speed controller. But if you can match a 21.5 with a cheap speedy (and I trust Davids judgement on this) then it would be cheaper then running a motor in Brasso all day, freezing the engine for taller gearing, or having to test multiple motors for the best motor. And plus the impound problems Scrutineering has at State events.

This class could be considered in some respects the most expensive class of all, based on how much you want to win.

Regards
Graham Lloyd-Jones
SCRCCC
ORCCA

Certainly the lap times are comparable there's no problem with that, so in performance terms they are quite similar (with a slight advantage to the brushless)


at our club the 21.5 lap record is only 0.4 slower than a 17.5, whereas the 540 lap record is 1.4s slower(21.5 and 540 set by the same driver).to say the lap times are comparable is a joke. Why create an in between class for 21.5??

Until a suitable motor is found 540 should stay as it is at events after all it is a novice class.

540 is for Novice. 540 Pro is for anyone. This thread shouldnt be steered in THAT direction.

Hi a little off the topic but,

I can think of 10+ people that I could name that have left this hobby because it is too serious. Silver can is the last part of this hobby that remains cheap.

What happened to the day of buying a standard tamiya kit, throwing bearings in it, painting up a sexy looking Alfa, Celica or Skyline body and coming out to place in the top 3?

I would personaly love to see a controled Tamiya cheap class $300 max complete setup and NO changes allowed. Rely only on driving, come out and have some fun. And why does it have to be a NOVICE class? People who have been in this hobby for years might even run in it. I and many others enjoy R/C as a side hobby to many other activities and sports we like to participate in. Not to mention kids that have 300+ hobbys before they find one they might possibly maybe stick with:nod: All the upgrades, updates, setups, e.t.c have just steered people away.

Oh and before anyone says Mini can you honestly set one up new for under $300 and finish in the top 3?

These are my thoughts please dont attack me:lol:

21.5 +1:nod:

Most people take racing pretty serious and do all sorts of weird and wonderful things to their motors to gain n extra second or two or they buy all the 540 motors they can find, keep the ones with the best RPM then sell the rest off or they have thousands of dollars worth of dyno equipment to make sure their motors are the fastest they can be:lol:. I know I was guilty of these things when racing 540.:blush:

As RAST pointed out, at least the driver can jump up to any other class without worrying about buying a new speedy and they can still get decent money for their 21.5 plus its way less maintenance ie cleaning and oiling after each race.

I hope they change the rules up in SE QLD for next year or at least give 21.5a good go. I know for a fact that a good portion of the younger drivers think that brushless equipment is cool and they love the look of it so you shouldnt have any arguments from them and mum n dad dont want to see their children unhappy.....do they:lol:

I dont even think the silver cans were specifically designed for rc applications, I think they are replacement fan motors for caravans. Someone else out there probably knows the exact details, but that was something I heard years ago.

I just installed a 13t ezrun kit in my f103 for $80 delivered, i dont consider that expensive.

I run 540 at SMA in sydney and all i want is for 540 to get the boot. brushless is sooo much easier, less maintenance, less difference between motors, compared to 540.

You get lots of options as to esc setup all fun for beginners, cleaner and longer lasting.

Also i know of guys spending hundreds on esc for 540, tell me does that make it a cheap class and if new comers arnt close to competitive they wont hang around for to long.

Also i dont think i have ever seen a out of the box kit at the track, most people are happy and find it fun to hop up their cars.

just my 2 cents

+2:nod:

The very nature of the silvercan motor makes equal spec cars impossible with the vast differences from one to the next. Ive seen guys running stock out of the box Tamiya speedies beat others with far more expensive ones. It was the motor which made the difference.