Hot Bodies Cyclone
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Guys
I have a setup question that I've never been able to answer by my own experiences... the track I race at sees its grip changing so much from the morning practice to the evening mains that I cannot isolate easily what handling changes come from grip changes vs. those from the car itself....
so here we go.
The question is: how does reducing wheelbase, via front or rear, change the handling characteristics of the cyclone?
In my theory books, reducing wheelbase from the rear leads to a more loaded rear end, which means more weight to the back on-throttle, ie more rear traction on-throttle. However it also means more overhangs, hence more "backpack" effect, ie the car is more prone to get into a drift from the rear (think off-throttle oversteer) and sustain if once the rear tires have lost traction.
Likewise, reducing wheelbase from the front should have the opposite effects - more front grip on throttle, and more understeer off throttle (you have to make that much more weight away from the front tires contract patch rotate around).
In both cases, a shorter wheelbase should mean a shorter turning radius no matter what (geometry 101), but I suspect this effect is marginal compared to those mentionned above.
What do you guys, who spend your lives at the track, think?
Thanks
Paul
I have a setup question that I've never been able to answer by my own experiences... the track I race at sees its grip changing so much from the morning practice to the evening mains that I cannot isolate easily what handling changes come from grip changes vs. those from the car itself....
so here we go.
The question is: how does reducing wheelbase, via front or rear, change the handling characteristics of the cyclone?
In my theory books, reducing wheelbase from the rear leads to a more loaded rear end, which means more weight to the back on-throttle, ie more rear traction on-throttle. However it also means more overhangs, hence more "backpack" effect, ie the car is more prone to get into a drift from the rear (think off-throttle oversteer) and sustain if once the rear tires have lost traction.
Likewise, reducing wheelbase from the front should have the opposite effects - more front grip on throttle, and more understeer off throttle (you have to make that much more weight away from the front tires contract patch rotate around).
In both cases, a shorter wheelbase should mean a shorter turning radius no matter what (geometry 101), but I suspect this effect is marginal compared to those mentionned above.
What do you guys, who spend your lives at the track, think?
Thanks
Paul
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
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cyclone tc setup
hi guys new at hotbodies im trying to find setup sheets for cyclone tc went to hpi-hotbodies website its all old andy moore setup. were can i go for hara and other setup for cyclone tc. thanks in advance.
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Hi guys
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
-James
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Hi guys
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
Front wheelbase changes:
So usually if I shorten the wheelbase in the front end (move the arms back) it makes the car sit on the nose more. Now, it;s been hard for me to be able to tell how it changes the car in the three main parts of a corner (entry, mid and exit). But I do know it will generally make the car have more steering and be more aggressive off power, and have more rear grip on power (more available weight to transfer to the rear from the front). If you lengthen the wheel base in the front (move the arms forward) it will smooth out the car and make it feel like a Cadillac .
Rear wheelbase changes:
Generally when I lengthen the rear wheelbase on a car, I notice it tends to make the car have a little more on power steering, and be very smooth at the same time. I can't really explain why, but that is what I've felt before. Shortening the wheelbase will give really good low speed steering in those tight 180's and such, but have less on power steering.
That's about as detailed I can get. Other tha the obvious when you change the front and rear wheelbase together: Longer is smoother, and shorter is more aggressive.
-Korey
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Hi guys
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
I concur with your conclusion, Lonestar, that altered weight distribution is the primary result of a wheelbase change. The geometry change... even a 1 or 2mm wheelbase change over a distance of 258mm, I've never considered significant.
With the wheelbase at full length on both ends, you would have more weight around the center of the car and therefore the lowest polar moment of inertia (the ability to turn/rotate the car). This will allow you to turn it in with less effort and also straighten it out coming out of a turn with less effort. I find this to be the most responsive setup, like a mid-engined full sized race car.
Shortening the front end puts more weight towards the front. Turn in is smoother and more progressive. I find this works well on longer corners with decreasing radius, like a sweeper into a hairpin.
Shortening the rear end puts more weight towards the rear. The 'backpack effect' is a good way to put it. It allows you to swing the rear end and rotate the car more on power. This is again handy for longer corners... you can get on the power sooner and not have the car straighten out right away.
With both adjustments, you also have a slight side effect to the other end of the car. Shortening the front mostly affects the front weight distribution, but it also takes a slight amount of weight off the rear. The reverse would go for the rear adjustment.
Edit: Ha... just read Korey's post... different drivers look for and feel different things. I was doing a driving/tuning seminar for the guys at my track this week, and that's one of the things I told them... you have to tune for you.
Last edited by rc pete; 01-30-2009 at 10:26 AM.
thanks
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Hi guys
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
always a lot of people to talk fdr but not that many to talk true setup changes impact... (just being a bit provocative here, but as usual this "technical" forum has a low S/N ratio...).
Anyone knowledgeable wants to take a crack at it? rc-pete? Korey?
thanks guys,
Paul
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I have a question about layout changes and what should you do when your local track changes the layout? I think it is basically this. The setup before had wider turns than shown here form what I am thinking. What would be a good setup for tighter turns than I am used to,or is that a wierd question? thihttp://www.rctech.net/forum/attachments/racing-forum/407075d1232097138-360-rc-speedway-
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please contact me if you or know anybody with a Surikarn Ed. Cyclone