2006 JMRCA All Japan TC Championships @ Yatabe Arena
11-20-2006, 10:49 AM
#241
Well, while I am not saying it doesn't happen....
Dumas used the same pack at the IIC in his main as he did from his last qualifier....
At the end of the main, he has 600 MAH left in the pack....
He got 2nd after being taken out in the first corner...and dropping to dead last...
Pro Drivers don't always use new packs....
I can tell you however, Billy got a new pack for each run at this race.....the 4 cells is causing the drivers to use crazy motors and its killing the runtime in the packs....turning it into a runtime war....
Yup....saving everyone money....
Later EddieO
Dumas used the same pack at the IIC in his main as he did from his last qualifier....
At the end of the main, he has 600 MAH left in the pack....
He got 2nd after being taken out in the first corner...and dropping to dead last...
Pro Drivers don't always use new packs....
I can tell you however, Billy got a new pack for each run at this race.....the 4 cells is causing the drivers to use crazy motors and its killing the runtime in the packs....turning it into a runtime war....
Yup....saving everyone money....
Later EddieO
11-20-2006, 11:11 AM
#242
Suspended
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, while I am not saying it doesn't happen....
Dumas used the same pack at the IIC in his main as he did from his last qualifier....
At the end of the main, he has 600 MAH left in the pack....
He got 2nd after being taken out in the first corner...and dropping to dead last...
Pro Drivers don't always use new packs....
I can tell you however, Billy got a new pack for each run at this race.....the 4 cells is causing the drivers to use crazy motors and its killing the runtime in the packs....turning it into a runtime war....
Yup....saving everyone money....
Later EddieO
Dumas used the same pack at the IIC in his main as he did from his last qualifier....
At the end of the main, he has 600 MAH left in the pack....
He got 2nd after being taken out in the first corner...and dropping to dead last...
Pro Drivers don't always use new packs....
I can tell you however, Billy got a new pack for each run at this race.....the 4 cells is causing the drivers to use crazy motors and its killing the runtime in the packs....turning it into a runtime war....
Yup....saving everyone money....
Later EddieO
11-20-2006, 12:13 PM
#243
Originally Posted by AdrianM
You are absolutely right.
At US Nationals (6 cell) the top mod drivers have new packs for every qualifier and every main. No one comes off the track with 1000mah anymore. If the grip is high (all US racing on asphalt and indoors is high grip) cars go soft for the last 2-3 laps.
FYI, this is not just Team Schumacher. Everyone knows everyone else and we all talk to each other.
At US Nationals (6 cell) the top mod drivers have new packs for every qualifier and every main. No one comes off the track with 1000mah anymore. If the grip is high (all US racing on asphalt and indoors is high grip) cars go soft for the last 2-3 laps.
FYI, this is not just Team Schumacher. Everyone knows everyone else and we all talk to each other.
Then SMC must be lucky as were only giving out 2 new packs to our mod drivers at the big US races. Packs are being sent to Cleveland today with all our mod drivers only getting 2 packs.
As far as why you need to run new 4 cell packs in mod TC it has to do with cell dumping. Any time you dump a pack on the track that pack will have a drop in runtime. This has been true for all type of NiMh cells. So once you dump a pack regardless if it's 4 or 6 cell it will have s drop in runtime.
As I stated earlier in this thread in 6 cell mod the motor tuners weren't able to tune the motors to use up all the capacity of the 4200s as this would create blown winds or coms burning up. Once the motor tuners figure out how to keep the motor from holding up you will see dumping in 6 cell as well thus it will also hurt the runtime of the packs.
Also when running new packs the packs tend to be bit less powerful on the very first run which will mean the pack will run a bit longer. For the Japanese Nats we picked out cells that were a tad bit lower in voltage and a bit higher in IR to help with the runtime issue. If a new pack doesn't get dumped on the track it will be better as you run it some more.
As this is racing at the highest level it will always come down to all the last details to try to make the most power. This is the main reason why stock and 19t is so popular as you don't have to worry about these things.
I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
11-20-2006, 01:01 PM
#244
I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
11-20-2006, 04:57 PM
#245
Tech Adept
6 turns was the norm for almost everyone.
Hara using 4 chargers, to charge each cell at 6 amps? Look at the picture again, he only has 3 chargers on there. And no, he was using just the 1 charger as normal and was charging THE PACK at 6 amps.
Masami not using a power cap or diode, you didn`t need one. At no point during a lap did you think about using the brakes. You couldn`t, 1 crash would cost 20 - 30 seconds of runtime.
6 cell is much easier on batteries, I know the top drivers do have new packs for the larger events and I fully understand that. But with 4 cell the drop off on 2nd run packs is huge. They will start using new packs for some of the smaller events aswell meaning that if the average racer wants to compete he has to follow suit. Not what this hobby needs!
Hara using 4 chargers, to charge each cell at 6 amps? Look at the picture again, he only has 3 chargers on there. And no, he was using just the 1 charger as normal and was charging THE PACK at 6 amps.
Masami not using a power cap or diode, you didn`t need one. At no point during a lap did you think about using the brakes. You couldn`t, 1 crash would cost 20 - 30 seconds of runtime.
6 cell is much easier on batteries, I know the top drivers do have new packs for the larger events and I fully understand that. But with 4 cell the drop off on 2nd run packs is huge. They will start using new packs for some of the smaller events aswell meaning that if the average racer wants to compete he has to follow suit. Not what this hobby needs!
11-20-2006, 10:24 PM
#246
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Then SMC must be lucky as were only giving out 2 new packs to our mod drivers at the big US races. Packs are being sent to Cleveland today with all our mod drivers only getting 2 packs.
As far as why you need to run new 4 cell packs in mod TC it has to do with cell dumping. Any time you dump a pack on the track that pack will have a drop in runtime. This has been true for all type of NiMh cells. So once you dump a pack regardless if it's 4 or 6 cell it will have s drop in runtime.
As I stated earlier in this thread in 6 cell mod the motor tuners weren't able to tune the motors to use up all the capacity of the 4200s as this would create blown winds or coms burning up. Once the motor tuners figure out how to keep the motor from holding up you will see dumping in 6 cell as well thus it will also hurt the runtime of the packs.
Also when running new packs the packs tend to be bit less powerful on the very first run which will mean the pack will run a bit longer. For the Japanese Nats we picked out cells that were a tad bit lower in voltage and a bit higher in IR to help with the runtime issue. If a new pack doesn't get dumped on the track it will be better as you run it some more.
As this is racing at the highest level it will always come down to all the last details to try to make the most power. This is the main reason why stock and 19t is so popular as you don't have to worry about these things.
I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
As far as why you need to run new 4 cell packs in mod TC it has to do with cell dumping. Any time you dump a pack on the track that pack will have a drop in runtime. This has been true for all type of NiMh cells. So once you dump a pack regardless if it's 4 or 6 cell it will have s drop in runtime.
As I stated earlier in this thread in 6 cell mod the motor tuners weren't able to tune the motors to use up all the capacity of the 4200s as this would create blown winds or coms burning up. Once the motor tuners figure out how to keep the motor from holding up you will see dumping in 6 cell as well thus it will also hurt the runtime of the packs.
Also when running new packs the packs tend to be bit less powerful on the very first run which will mean the pack will run a bit longer. For the Japanese Nats we picked out cells that were a tad bit lower in voltage and a bit higher in IR to help with the runtime issue. If a new pack doesn't get dumped on the track it will be better as you run it some more.
As this is racing at the highest level it will always come down to all the last details to try to make the most power. This is the main reason why stock and 19t is so popular as you don't have to worry about these things.
I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
so, is brushless + lipo = the perfect solution?
11-20-2006, 11:22 PM
#247
Originally Posted by John Pape
6 turns was the norm for almost everyone.
Hara using 4 chargers, to charge each cell at 6 amps? Look at the picture again, he only has 3 chargers on there. And no, he was using just the 1 charger as normal and was charging THE PACK at 6 amps.
.....!
Hara using 4 chargers, to charge each cell at 6 amps? Look at the picture again, he only has 3 chargers on there. And no, he was using just the 1 charger as normal and was charging THE PACK at 6 amps.
.....!
I know it is pointless arguing with you over this, since you were there, and I wasn't but please explain the following two photos.
11-20-2006, 11:33 PM
#248
Tech Master
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
John,
I know it is pointless arguing with you over this, since you were there, and I wasn't but please explain the following two photos.
I know it is pointless arguing with you over this, since you were there, and I wasn't but please explain the following two photos.
11-20-2006, 11:42 PM
#249
I just enlraged the photo. Nothing else.
Here is the original link for both:
1.
Main page (go to this headline "11月17日（金-Fri.）Practice Qualify1,2,3
", its the middle picture
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gallery/06exp.htm
and the actual photo link is
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gal...B/06expB11.jpg
2.
Go to the main page, its the last picture in the centre.
http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bsg/b...06ept_exp.html
and the actuall photo link is
http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bsg/b...oto/charge.jpg
Here is the original link for both:
1.
Main page (go to this headline "11月17日（金-Fri.）Practice Qualify1,2,3
", its the middle picture
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gallery/06exp.htm
and the actual photo link is
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gal...B/06expB11.jpg
2.
Go to the main page, its the last picture in the centre.
http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bsg/b...06ept_exp.html
and the actuall photo link is
http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bsg/b...oto/charge.jpg
11-21-2006, 12:43 AM
#251
Tech Master
Holy jeeez. I was joking 
11-21-2006, 12:55 AM
#252
I'm surprised no one who was there has mentioned the tires (if they have I've missed it on the last couple of pages) - apparently the best tires to have were from a batch made in 2001, only certain drivers (the top 3) had a really good supply of these and were able to push hard every time they were on the track.
So:
over a month straight of testing
perfectly molded, impossible to find tires (used for one run)
one-run batteries (well at least they weren't one-run motors)
track layout hasn't changed in 10 years
You could guess that world champs from previous visits to Yatabe would be in the top 3, eh?
I don't see why non-Japanese drivers even go to the Nats, it's just a waste of money. The JMRCA AGM is supposed to be coming up, hopefuly they change things to spec tires and figure out what they're doing for batteries. I don't see how the Japanese RC market can welcome new drivers to the hobby when these types of stories dominate the biggest races in the country. It's only supposed to be LIKE Formula 1, not ACTUALLY Formula 1.
So:
over a month straight of testing
perfectly molded, impossible to find tires (used for one run)
one-run batteries (well at least they weren't one-run motors)
track layout hasn't changed in 10 years
You could guess that world champs from previous visits to Yatabe would be in the top 3, eh?
I don't see why non-Japanese drivers even go to the Nats, it's just a waste of money. The JMRCA AGM is supposed to be coming up, hopefuly they change things to spec tires and figure out what they're doing for batteries. I don't see how the Japanese RC market can welcome new drivers to the hobby when these types of stories dominate the biggest races in the country. It's only supposed to be LIKE Formula 1, not ACTUALLY Formula 1.
11-21-2006, 01:13 AM
#253
Originally Posted by over gear
I always thought that 4cells = less money... i guess it's not as perfect as i've thought
so, is brushless + lipo = the perfect solution?
so, is brushless + lipo = the perfect solution?
Personally, I did 4cell TC based on the fact that it is as fast (in fact a bit faster) than 6cell 23T but require a lot less service on motor comm (I use Checkpoint 7x1 and 6x1 motor with 4cell). I tune my motors to draw about 10-12amp at 2v and the comm can last for 5 runs before any cut (I need to cut comm for 23T for every 1 or 2 run to maintain performance). I felt that my IB3800 cells is getting hotter after run compared to my usual 6cells packs running with 23T or 10T mod, but not that bad that the cells will die shortly or I need to use new cells frequently.
In JMRCA or big race, I think the top racers go extreme, maybe they tune their motor to draw 20+ amp or other type of tuning to overload the battery or electronics. As I said, these racing are too extreme.
11-21-2006, 01:34 AM
#254
Speeds are indeed slower but the batterywar isn't over yet. I guess when the batt. manufacturers will develope newer cells (both LIPO and NIMH) in the future the number of turns willl be lowered again towards the 1 turn which will bring higher speeds back.
As for Atsushi HAra: let's raise a fund for a decent haircut
As for Atsushi HAra: let's raise a fund for a decent haircut
11-21-2006, 01:46 AM
#255
Tech Master
Originally Posted by MrUnlimited
As for Atsushi HAra: let's raise a fund for a decent haircut
Me think thats the best hairdo so far for him...