R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2006, 11:49 AM   #241
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Well, while I am not saying it doesn't happen....


Dumas used the same pack at the IIC in his main as he did from his last qualifier....

At the end of the main, he has 600 MAH left in the pack....

He got 2nd after being taken out in the first corner...and dropping to dead last...

Pro Drivers don't always use new packs....

I can tell you however, Billy got a new pack for each run at this race.....the 4 cells is causing the drivers to use crazy motors and its killing the runtime in the packs....turning it into a runtime war....

Yup....saving everyone money....


Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 12:11 PM   #242
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, while I am not saying it doesn't happen....


Dumas used the same pack at the IIC in his main as he did from his last qualifier....

At the end of the main, he has 600 MAH left in the pack....

He got 2nd after being taken out in the first corner...and dropping to dead last...

Pro Drivers don't always use new packs....

I can tell you however, Billy got a new pack for each run at this race.....the 4 cells is causing the drivers to use crazy motors and its killing the runtime in the packs....turning it into a runtime war....

Yup....saving everyone money....


Later EddieO
WORD..
CAlbrecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 01:13 PM   #243
Company Representative
 
Danny/SMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Elkton, VA
Posts: 3,097
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
You are absolutely right.

At US Nationals (6 cell) the top mod drivers have new packs for every qualifier and every main. No one comes off the track with 1000mah anymore. If the grip is high (all US racing on asphalt and indoors is high grip) cars go soft for the last 2-3 laps.

FYI, this is not just Team Schumacher. Everyone knows everyone else and we all talk to each other.


Then SMC must be lucky as were only giving out 2 new packs to our mod drivers at the big US races. Packs are being sent to Cleveland today with all our mod drivers only getting 2 packs.


As far as why you need to run new 4 cell packs in mod TC it has to do with cell dumping. Any time you dump a pack on the track that pack will have a drop in runtime. This has been true for all type of NiMh cells. So once you dump a pack regardless if it's 4 or 6 cell it will have s drop in runtime.

As I stated earlier in this thread in 6 cell mod the motor tuners weren't able to tune the motors to use up all the capacity of the 4200s as this would create blown winds or coms burning up. Once the motor tuners figure out how to keep the motor from holding up you will see dumping in 6 cell as well thus it will also hurt the runtime of the packs.

Also when running new packs the packs tend to be bit less powerful on the very first run which will mean the pack will run a bit longer. For the Japanese Nats we picked out cells that were a tad bit lower in voltage and a bit higher in IR to help with the runtime issue. If a new pack doesn't get dumped on the track it will be better as you run it some more.

As this is racing at the highest level it will always come down to all the last details to try to make the most power. This is the main reason why stock and 19t is so popular as you don't have to worry about these things.

I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
Danny/SMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 02:01 PM   #244
Tech Addict
 
MrBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 746
Default

Quote:
I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
I think this is the key issue as rules are being set-up based around what the Pros need and we all know speed cost them nothing.
__________________
TEAM ORION - AVIONICS - KYOSHO - KO PROPO - PEAK

"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
MrBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 05:57 PM   #245
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 131
Default

6 turns was the norm for almost everyone.

Hara using 4 chargers, to charge each cell at 6 amps? Look at the picture again, he only has 3 chargers on there. And no, he was using just the 1 charger as normal and was charging THE PACK at 6 amps.

Masami not using a power cap or diode, you didn`t need one. At no point during a lap did you think about using the brakes. You couldn`t, 1 crash would cost 20 - 30 seconds of runtime.

6 cell is much easier on batteries, I know the top drivers do have new packs for the larger events and I fully understand that. But with 4 cell the drop off on 2nd run packs is huge. They will start using new packs for some of the smaller events aswell meaning that if the average racer wants to compete he has to follow suit. Not what this hobby needs!
__________________
Schumacher
Team Sorex
EA Motorsports
Speed Passion
East Coast Bodies
John Pape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2006, 11:24 PM   #246
Tech Master
 
over gear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,096
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Then SMC must be lucky as were only giving out 2 new packs to our mod drivers at the big US races. Packs are being sent to Cleveland today with all our mod drivers only getting 2 packs.


As far as why you need to run new 4 cell packs in mod TC it has to do with cell dumping. Any time you dump a pack on the track that pack will have a drop in runtime. This has been true for all type of NiMh cells. So once you dump a pack regardless if it's 4 or 6 cell it will have s drop in runtime.

As I stated earlier in this thread in 6 cell mod the motor tuners weren't able to tune the motors to use up all the capacity of the 4200s as this would create blown winds or coms burning up. Once the motor tuners figure out how to keep the motor from holding up you will see dumping in 6 cell as well thus it will also hurt the runtime of the packs.

Also when running new packs the packs tend to be bit less powerful on the very first run which will mean the pack will run a bit longer. For the Japanese Nats we picked out cells that were a tad bit lower in voltage and a bit higher in IR to help with the runtime issue. If a new pack doesn't get dumped on the track it will be better as you run it some more.

As this is racing at the highest level it will always come down to all the last details to try to make the most power. This is the main reason why stock and 19t is so popular as you don't have to worry about these things.

I once heard this saying that said speed costs how fast do you want to go.
I always thought that 4cells = less money... i guess it's not as perfect as i've thought

so, is brushless + lipo = the perfect solution?
over gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:22 AM   #247
Tech Master
 
John Doucakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 1,108
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pape
6 turns was the norm for almost everyone.

Hara using 4 chargers, to charge each cell at 6 amps? Look at the picture again, he only has 3 chargers on there. And no, he was using just the 1 charger as normal and was charging THE PACK at 6 amps.

.....!
John,

I know it is pointless arguing with you over this, since you were there, and I wasn't but please explain the following two photos.



John Doucakis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:33 AM   #248
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doucakis
John,

I know it is pointless arguing with you over this, since you were there, and I wasn't but please explain the following two photos.
Photoshop?
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:42 AM   #249
Tech Master
 
John Doucakis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 1,108
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I just enlraged the photo. Nothing else.

Here is the original link for both:

1.
Main page (go to this headline "11月17日(金-Fri.)Practice Qualify1,2,3
", its the middle picture
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gallery/06exp.htm

and the actual photo link is
http://www13.ocn.ne.jp/~mirage-j/gal...B/06expB11.jpg


2.
Go to the main page, its the last picture in the centre.

http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bsg/b...06ept_exp.html

and the actuall photo link is
http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/bsg/b...oto/charge.jpg
John Doucakis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 12:44 AM   #250
Shop Owner
 
nnick's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cheapest prices in Europe ;)
Posts: 1,342
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to nnick Send a message via MSN to nnick Send a message via Yahoo to nnick Send a message via Skype™ to nnick
Default

I wouldn't believe it's photoshop! Why the guy from Mirage do photoshop on the pictures?

Second pit area I think it's Addachi

Nick
__________________
Nikolakopoulos Nick
RC RING

The #1 source for all your electric needs www.rcring.eu

Enjoy RCing....
R/C Tech #82
IRT #123

Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong

Team Xray T4'17, Team Xray X10'18, TOP Racing Rebel
nnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 01:43 AM   #251
Tech Master
 
Anders Myrberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Manīs best friend: Hugo Myrberg
Posts: 1,987
Default

Holy jeeez. I was joking
Anders Myrberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 01:55 AM   #252
Tech Fanatic
 
Frank McKinney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: A Yank in England
Posts: 755
Default

I'm surprised no one who was there has mentioned the tires (if they have I've missed it on the last couple of pages) - apparently the best tires to have were from a batch made in 2001, only certain drivers (the top 3) had a really good supply of these and were able to push hard every time they were on the track.

So:
over a month straight of testing
perfectly molded, impossible to find tires (used for one run)
one-run batteries (well at least they weren't one-run motors)
track layout hasn't changed in 10 years

You could guess that world champs from previous visits to Yatabe would be in the top 3, eh?

I don't see why non-Japanese drivers even go to the Nats, it's just a waste of money. The JMRCA AGM is supposed to be coming up, hopefuly they change things to spec tires and figure out what they're doing for batteries. I don't see how the Japanese RC market can welcome new drivers to the hobby when these types of stories dominate the biggest races in the country. It's only supposed to be LIKE Formula 1, not ACTUALLY Formula 1.
__________________
Minimal signature to save screen space! Big sigs suX0r
Frank McKinney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 02:13 AM   #253
Tech Elite
 
ernestf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2,027
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to ernestf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by over gear
I always thought that 4cells = less money... i guess it's not as perfect as i've thought

so, is brushless + lipo = the perfect solution?

Personally, I did 4cell TC based on the fact that it is as fast (in fact a bit faster) than 6cell 23T but require a lot less service on motor comm (I use Checkpoint 7x1 and 6x1 motor with 4cell). I tune my motors to draw about 10-12amp at 2v and the comm can last for 5 runs before any cut (I need to cut comm for 23T for every 1 or 2 run to maintain performance). I felt that my IB3800 cells is getting hotter after run compared to my usual 6cells packs running with 23T or 10T mod, but not that bad that the cells will die shortly or I need to use new cells frequently.

In JMRCA or big race, I think the top racers go extreme, maybe they tune their motor to draw 20+ amp or other type of tuning to overload the battery or electronics. As I said, these racing are too extreme.
ernestf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 02:34 AM   #254
Tech Elite
 
MrUnlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,465
Default

Speeds are indeed slower but the batterywar isn't over yet. I guess when the batt. manufacturers will develope newer cells (both LIPO and NIMH) in the future the number of turns willl be lowered again towards the 1 turn which will bring higher speeds back.

As for Atsushi HAra: let's raise a fund for a decent haircut
__________________
U5 Formulaboat 1/8 hydroplane - MHZ138 AQUAMANIA - Axial Exo Terra - Tamiya Avante - LC Racing EMB1 - Atomic AMZ 4WD Touring car
MrUnlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2006, 02:46 AM   #255
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrUnlimited

As for Atsushi HAra: let's raise a fund for a decent haircut


Me think thats the best hairdo so far for him...
Ben.C is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yatabe Arena Int'l Off-Road GP 2008 lonestar1127 Singapore R/C Racers 2 02-13-2008 10:00 PM
Yatabe Arena Int'l Off-Road GP 2008 Robert Itoh Electric Off-Road 43 02-13-2008 03:59 PM
2007 1/8 JMRCA result (japan national) gansei Nitro On-Road 4 09-03-2007 11:14 AM
GW [email protected] Arena efuwonfan Electric Off-Road 2 05-07-2007 10:43 AM
2005 JMRCA 1/10 EP Touring All Japan Nationals Nipple Singapore R/C Racers 1 11-05-2005 11:58 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:20 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net