USVTA Woes
06-07-2012, 09:33 AM
#31
I also think the esc rules are dumb as timing is very well defined now with ROAR, and I think the battery rule is not right either, allow any 2s ROAR battery. guys have proved over and over, no difference.
BUT!
VTA by the real rules is still the best most fun closest racing ever and they look the best, my favorite class that still bugs me
BUT!
VTA by the real rules is still the best most fun closest racing ever and they look the best, my favorite class that still bugs me
06-07-2012, 10:42 AM
#34
Damn Darkside, it seems like somebody on all three threads are mad at you for nothin', it leaves me wondering.... who's wife did you f**k? 
You proved again that gearing for smoke is not how you win races, gear for lap times and temperatures will pretty well take care of themselves.
You proved again that gearing for smoke is not how you win races, gear for lap times and temperatures will pretty well take care of themselves.
06-07-2012, 10:58 AM
#35
I typed a big long thing, but it's not worth the fight. I like VTA, the class and the idea. I dislike that people here always talk down to myself and others that question anything, or god forbid ask for help to go faster.
All of you who can run with Myron are skilled drivers (you have to be to run with him, as I believe Myron is a very good driver). Why when people ask for help, they get snubbed? I have never seen any advice about car setup, weight balance, corner speed, braking mechanics, or any of the things that might actually be helpful. This is supposed to be an entry level class according to half the people here, but then there is zero help or advice given to those people, and their questions about rules or anything else gets them ridiculed.
If you want to be competitve in VTA, then obviously VTA is not the class for you.
It's this attitude that pushes me away from VTA. I am tired of being told I suck, and that if I want to not suck, i should go run something else (other then the entry level class
).
Myron, just let me know if I am not welcome at the Southern Nats, as I am planning on coming (and making the best showing I can somewhere down in the D or E main).
All of you who can run with Myron are skilled drivers (you have to be to run with him, as I believe Myron is a very good driver). Why when people ask for help, they get snubbed? I have never seen any advice about car setup, weight balance, corner speed, braking mechanics, or any of the things that might actually be helpful. This is supposed to be an entry level class according to half the people here, but then there is zero help or advice given to those people, and their questions about rules or anything else gets them ridiculed.
If you want to be competitve in VTA, then obviously VTA is not the class for you.
It's this attitude that pushes me away from VTA. I am tired of being told I suck, and that if I want to not suck, i should go run something else (other then the entry level class
).Myron, just let me know if I am not welcome at the Southern Nats, as I am planning on coming (and making the best showing I can somewhere down in the D or E main).
06-07-2012, 11:41 AM
#36
What do you want to know?
99% of the time the biggest problem with cars i see are:
*Camber all messed up
*ride height not 5mm on both ends to start
*cross weight wrong -- this is easy to fix, but I'd either have to find a video or make one to show you the easiest way.
*droop all messed up
Also make sure the body is cut out properly (and you have mounted your driver figure
).
Then you move on to a working rubber tire setup. From that point, now you have options to tune that setup.
Start with:
*spring change up or down one rate. Sometimes this is too much and you can stand up or lay your shocks in. Generally, laying in is more traction, stand up less, but it also affects progression. Laying in the rear is usually more rotation, stand up squares up more.
*longer or shorter camber link. Shorter quicker reaction, longer more rolling. More angle= more the car wants to "dig in", but can also traction roll or have a funny break away depending on traction level and surface.
*Shock oil: this is temperature dependent...changes how quickly the car reacts, but more of an overall feel. Also a way to change how the different ends of the car work.
*spool or diff? Spools can be faster, but make the car harder to drive. Gear diff w/putty or similar is close but more forgiving.
*what about weight? Sometimes these cars like a little nose weight to keep them steering on power.
Now what about your tires? are they broken in? Do you have the right sauce for the track?? You can glue the side walls for high traction-this is not a bandaid, but a very legitimate tuning option.
99% of the time the biggest problem with cars i see are:
*Camber all messed up
*ride height not 5mm on both ends to start
*cross weight wrong -- this is easy to fix, but I'd either have to find a video or make one to show you the easiest way.
*droop all messed up
Also make sure the body is cut out properly (and you have mounted your driver figure
). Then you move on to a working rubber tire setup. From that point, now you have options to tune that setup.
Start with:
*spring change up or down one rate. Sometimes this is too much and you can stand up or lay your shocks in. Generally, laying in is more traction, stand up less, but it also affects progression. Laying in the rear is usually more rotation, stand up squares up more.
*longer or shorter camber link. Shorter quicker reaction, longer more rolling. More angle= more the car wants to "dig in", but can also traction roll or have a funny break away depending on traction level and surface.
*Shock oil: this is temperature dependent...changes how quickly the car reacts, but more of an overall feel. Also a way to change how the different ends of the car work.
*spool or diff? Spools can be faster, but make the car harder to drive. Gear diff w/putty or similar is close but more forgiving.
*what about weight? Sometimes these cars like a little nose weight to keep them steering on power.
Now what about your tires? are they broken in? Do you have the right sauce for the track?? You can glue the side walls for high traction-this is not a bandaid, but a very legitimate tuning option.
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
06-07-2012, 11:58 AM
#37
What do you want to know?
99% of the time the biggest problem with cars i see are:
*Camber all messed up
*ride height not 5mm on both ends to start
*cross weight wrong -- this is easy to fix, but I'd either have to find a video or make one to show you the easiest way.
*droop all messed up
Also make sure the body is cut out properly (and you have mounted your driver figure ).
Then you move on to a working rubber tire setup. From that point, now you have options to tune that setup.
Start with:
*spring change up or down one rate. Sometimes this is too much and you can stand up or lay your shocks in. Generally, laying in is more traction, stand up less, but it also affects progression. Laying in the rear is usually more rotation, stand up squares up more.
*longer or shorter camber link. Shorter quicker reaction, longer more rolling. More angle= more the car wants to "dig in", but can also traction roll or have a funny break away depending on traction level and surface.
*Shock oil: this is temperature dependent...changes how quickly the car reacts, but more of an overall feel. Also a way to change how the different ends of the car work.
*spool or diff? Spools can be faster, but make the car harder to drive. Gear diff w/putty or similar is close but more forgiving.
*what about weight? Sometimes these cars like a little nose weight to keep them steering on power.
Now what about your tires? are they broken in? Do you have the right sauce for the track?? You can glue the side walls for high traction-this is not a bandaid, but a very legitimate tuning option.
99% of the time the biggest problem with cars i see are:
*Camber all messed up
*ride height not 5mm on both ends to start
*cross weight wrong -- this is easy to fix, but I'd either have to find a video or make one to show you the easiest way.
*droop all messed up
Also make sure the body is cut out properly (and you have mounted your driver figure
). Then you move on to a working rubber tire setup. From that point, now you have options to tune that setup.
Start with:
*spring change up or down one rate. Sometimes this is too much and you can stand up or lay your shocks in. Generally, laying in is more traction, stand up less, but it also affects progression. Laying in the rear is usually more rotation, stand up squares up more.
*longer or shorter camber link. Shorter quicker reaction, longer more rolling. More angle= more the car wants to "dig in", but can also traction roll or have a funny break away depending on traction level and surface.
*Shock oil: this is temperature dependent...changes how quickly the car reacts, but more of an overall feel. Also a way to change how the different ends of the car work.
*spool or diff? Spools can be faster, but make the car harder to drive. Gear diff w/putty or similar is close but more forgiving.
*what about weight? Sometimes these cars like a little nose weight to keep them steering on power.
Now what about your tires? are they broken in? Do you have the right sauce for the track?? You can glue the side walls for high traction-this is not a bandaid, but a very legitimate tuning option.
| + YouTube Video | |
| + YouTube Video | |
wrong thread.....
06-07-2012, 12:14 PM
#39
I typed a big long thing, but it's not worth the fight. I like VTA, the class and the idea. I dislike that people here always talk down to myself and others that question anything, or god forbid ask for help to go faster.
All of you who can run with Myron are skilled drivers (you have to be to run with him, as I believe Myron is a very good driver). Why when people ask for help, they get snubbed? I have never seen any advice about car setup, weight balance, corner speed, braking mechanics, or any of the things that might actually be helpful. This is supposed to be an entry level class according to half the people here, but then there is zero help or advice given to those people, and their questions about rules or anything else gets them ridiculed.
If you want to be competitve in VTA, then obviously VTA is not the class for you.
It's this attitude that pushes me away from VTA. I am tired of being told I suck, and that if I want to not suck, i should go run something else (other then the entry level class ).
Myron, just let me know if I am not welcome at the Southern Nats, as I am planning on coming (and making the best showing I can somewhere down in the D or E main).
All of you who can run with Myron are skilled drivers (you have to be to run with him, as I believe Myron is a very good driver). Why when people ask for help, they get snubbed? I have never seen any advice about car setup, weight balance, corner speed, braking mechanics, or any of the things that might actually be helpful. This is supposed to be an entry level class according to half the people here, but then there is zero help or advice given to those people, and their questions about rules or anything else gets them ridiculed.
If you want to be competitve in VTA, then obviously VTA is not the class for you.
It's this attitude that pushes me away from VTA. I am tired of being told I suck, and that if I want to not suck, i should go run something else (other then the entry level class
).Myron, just let me know if I am not welcome at the Southern Nats, as I am planning on coming (and making the best showing I can somewhere down in the D or E main).
For me personally, it is very hard to read an issue and respond intelligably versus "seeing" what someone is asking/saying and responding. That's just me though and maybe that is some of the issue.
06-07-2012, 01:07 PM
#41
So I have recently come to a proverbial fork in the road and I wanted to get some feedback from everyone else who is running this class. I thoroughly enjoy the nature of the class having vintage muscle car bodies and tires. And I love the competitive nature of the class. It truly is a blast and I've learned a lot about car setup and driver sportsmanship; considering I come from an off road back ground.
My issue is as so: I have recently stopped running this class due to the primary fact that the rules for this class regarding speed control and motor brand; which in my opinion cater to a specific manufacturer. Personally I would like to see the class adhere more to the actual ROAR rule set; where the hobbyist has the choice to use any manufacturers speed control as long as it does not offer any motor timing control. As far as the motor is concerned; there is an alternative 25.5t motor on the market.
Now i know there will be comments about the interchange-ability of esc cases and the circuit boards within them; but I have found that ALL of the esc manufacturers have an issue with this problem.
Your opinions are greatly welcomed; but lets keep it clean. I'm not doing this to bash on anybody's beliefs. I'm just curious as to what the public has to say.
My issue is as so: I have recently stopped running this class due to the primary fact that the rules for this class regarding speed control and motor brand; which in my opinion cater to a specific manufacturer. Personally I would like to see the class adhere more to the actual ROAR rule set; where the hobbyist has the choice to use any manufacturers speed control as long as it does not offer any motor timing control. As far as the motor is concerned; there is an alternative 25.5t motor on the market.
Now i know there will be comments about the interchange-ability of esc cases and the circuit boards within them; but I have found that ALL of the esc manufacturers have an issue with this problem.
Your opinions are greatly welcomed; but lets keep it clean. I'm not doing this to bash on anybody's beliefs. I'm just curious as to what the public has to say.
Is there a reason why this wasn't a problem for you initially? Not sure why this "became" a sudden problem despite the fact the rules have never changed. It became such a problem for you that you quit the class. Forgive me but I just can't follow your logic.
This class actually draws more entries in my local area than the touring class. There's a reason for that - the USVTA rules set it apart from every other class out there. Not "opening up" the rules is what makes it successful. At our track, this is not considered entry level by any stretch of the imagination. While we do have some that are just starting out, on the other end of the spectrum we have a former ROAR On-Road National champion in the class too.
Bottom line, if the "Novak thing" bothers you that much - switch to blinky sedan or have your local track adopt their own set of VTA rules. This isn't rocket science.
But hey, that's just my opinion....just as you solicited.
06-07-2012, 01:20 PM
#42
Local Vta
I do not run vta but our track runs 17.5 1cell lipo with open speedo and it is very close racing!
201206061 Race # 3 - A Main - Wed Trans Am
Molzer Mowery Racing - Web site: http://molzermoweryracing.com
JLap Race Manager (Build: 1014) - Web site: http://www.JLapRM.com
Copyright © 1999 - 2012 TGR Software, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Pos. Start Car Driver's Name Total Laps Total Time Fastest Lap On Lap Avg. Lap Time Std. Dev Status
1 1 1 Andrew Mowery 46 00:08:04.409 00:09.941 3 10.530 0.841 Done!
2 2 2 Scott Beamish 46 00:08:04.712 00:09.851 5 10.537 1.243 Done!
3 3 3 Sandy Schwartz 46 00:08:11.474 00:09.990 5 10.684 0.916 Done!
4 4 4 Doug Austad 42 00:08:00.803 00:10.643 7 11.447 1.106 Done!
5 5 5 Nathan Rugroden 42 00:08:05.536 00:10.240 5 11.560 1.332 Done!
6 6 6 Brandon Reinert 42 00:08:09.565 00:10.587 20 11.656 1.480 Done!
7 8 8 Phillip Jones 41 00:08:03.150 00:10.859 13 11.784 0.796 Done!
8 7 7 Zander Keith 41 00:08:11.900 00:11.106 7 11.997 0.910 Done!
201206061 Race # 3 - A Main - Wed Trans Am
Molzer Mowery Racing - Web site: http://molzermoweryracing.com
JLap Race Manager (Build: 1014) - Web site: http://www.JLapRM.com
Copyright © 1999 - 2012 TGR Software, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Pos. Start Car Driver's Name Total Laps Total Time Fastest Lap On Lap Avg. Lap Time Std. Dev Status
1 1 1 Andrew Mowery 46 00:08:04.409 00:09.941 3 10.530 0.841 Done!
2 2 2 Scott Beamish 46 00:08:04.712 00:09.851 5 10.537 1.243 Done!
3 3 3 Sandy Schwartz 46 00:08:11.474 00:09.990 5 10.684 0.916 Done!
4 4 4 Doug Austad 42 00:08:00.803 00:10.643 7 11.447 1.106 Done!
5 5 5 Nathan Rugroden 42 00:08:05.536 00:10.240 5 11.560 1.332 Done!
6 6 6 Brandon Reinert 42 00:08:09.565 00:10.587 20 11.656 1.480 Done!
7 8 8 Phillip Jones 41 00:08:03.150 00:10.859 13 11.784 0.796 Done!
8 7 7 Zander Keith 41 00:08:11.900 00:11.106 7 11.997 0.910 Done!
06-07-2012, 01:48 PM
#44
When I asked about FDR, and how some people were running very aggressive FDR's (3.0-3.4 seem aggressive to me), I was told to learn to drive, FDR does not matter, and Myron runs a 4.0 FDR on a TC3 with 1 wheel and a broken chassis and still wins.
When I asked about motor dyno's and the variance in numbers on Novak motors and what they mean, I was told to learn to drive, the motors are all the same, and Myron found his motor in a crackerjack box and it runs on belly button lint and still wins.
When I asked about losing rear end traction and suspecting I was overheating the rear tires, I was told to learn to drive, the tires work the same no matter what, and Myron skinned Chuck Norris alive and used his hide as inserts for his tires which is why he always wins.
So, if I understand this right, you were running this class - seemingly without issue but since then you have stopped running this class despite the fact that the USVTA rules have not changed. Your sole reason for this decision is that now you feel the rules "cater" to a specific manufacturer, as it relates to the ESC and motor.
Is there a reason why this wasn't a problem for you initially? Not sure why this "became" a sudden problem despite the fact the rules have never changed. It became such a problem for you that you quit the class. Forgive me but I just can't follow your logic.
This class actually draws more entries in my local area than the touring class. There's a reason for that - the USVTA rules set it apart from every other class out there. Not "opening up" the rules is what makes it successful. At our track, this is not considered entry level by any stretch of the imagination. While we do have some that are just starting out, on the other end of the spectrum we have a former ROAR On-Road National champion in the class too.
Bottom line, if the "Novak thing" bothers you that much - switch to blinky sedan or have your local track adopt their own set of VTA rules. This isn't rocket science.
But hey, that's just my opinion....just as you solicited.
Is there a reason why this wasn't a problem for you initially? Not sure why this "became" a sudden problem despite the fact the rules have never changed. It became such a problem for you that you quit the class. Forgive me but I just can't follow your logic.
This class actually draws more entries in my local area than the touring class. There's a reason for that - the USVTA rules set it apart from every other class out there. Not "opening up" the rules is what makes it successful. At our track, this is not considered entry level by any stretch of the imagination. While we do have some that are just starting out, on the other end of the spectrum we have a former ROAR On-Road National champion in the class too.
Bottom line, if the "Novak thing" bothers you that much - switch to blinky sedan or have your local track adopt their own set of VTA rules. This isn't rocket science.
But hey, that's just my opinion....just as you solicited.
Why is it that if anyone has a concern, they are told to get lost and race something else? No wonder onroad is struggling so much...
06-07-2012, 01:55 PM
#45
Really? When I asked in the old VTA thread about battery IR rating regarding punch throughout a race, I was told to learn to drive, batteries don't matter, and Myron is running on a pack of AA's he found in a dumpster and can still win.
When I asked about FDR, and how some people were running very aggressive FDR's (3.0-3.4 seem aggressive to me), I was told to learn to drive, FDR does not matter, and Myron runs a 4.0 FDR on a TC3 with 1 wheel and a broken chassis and still wins.
When I asked about motor dyno's and the variance in numbers on Novak motors and what they mean, I was told to learn to drive, the motors are all the same, and Myron found his motor in a crackerjack box and it runs on belly button lint and still wins.
When I asked about losing rear end traction and suspecting I was overheating the rear tires, I was told to learn to drive, the tires work the same no matter what, and Myron skinned Chuck Norris alive and used his hide as inserts for his tires which is why he always wins.
When I asked about FDR, and how some people were running very aggressive FDR's (3.0-3.4 seem aggressive to me), I was told to learn to drive, FDR does not matter, and Myron runs a 4.0 FDR on a TC3 with 1 wheel and a broken chassis and still wins.
When I asked about motor dyno's and the variance in numbers on Novak motors and what they mean, I was told to learn to drive, the motors are all the same, and Myron found his motor in a crackerjack box and it runs on belly button lint and still wins.
When I asked about losing rear end traction and suspecting I was overheating the rear tires, I was told to learn to drive, the tires work the same no matter what, and Myron skinned Chuck Norris alive and used his hide as inserts for his tires which is why he always wins.