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Old 01-11-2017, 10:19 AM   #4801
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ROAR rules allow only solid rear axle and the fact that most tracks went to 25.5 motors. The gear box of the FGX kills the speed and efficiency needed with the 25.5 motors. Had to hang up my FGX because of this. It would out handle any pan car F1 but was getting killed on the straight aways and motor was already running too hot.
This.

I'd like to see a more cleverly designed F1 car with independent suspension. Make it a direct drive ball-diff sitting in the center and the motor just off to the side. Sandwich the spur/diff right between the rear suspension. It could be done. Or go the route the Serpent 4x does with pull-rod, like real F1. That would be sweet!

And we should totally have carbon pushrods & arms for more scale accurate suspension.

That said, current regs kill the market viability. Fortunately larger scale F1 cars aren't bound to this rule.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:07 AM   #4802
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Rules are ment to be changed and augmented. I remember 12th scale ROAR rule was 4 cell battery and now it is 1s lipo. Secondly I don't understand the change to 25.5 motors. What does going to 25.5 really accomplish?
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:53 AM   #4803
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:42 PM   #4804
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What does going to 25.5 really accomplish?
Well I think given the speed people are seeing out of 17.5 and 21.5 motors nowadays it was a progression to keep the racing closer and speed within reach of newcomers. We're seeing lap times within a second of the quickest 17.5 TC cars at our track. You start putting more power into a RWD rubber tire pan car and it becomes too difficult to drive. It was meant to be a fun class with a scale look but we know how that goes after while in competition.

Remember when F1 was first coming around it was't abnormal for people to run gyro's in them until tire technology caught up and allowed for better traction.

UF1 rules still allow the independent suspension which a lot of tracks follow but indoor carpet traction negates the advantage you see with the FGX in favor of pure speed and efficiency.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:41 PM   #4805
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Well I think given the speed people are seeing out of 17.5 and 21.5 motors nowadays it was a progression to keep the racing closer and speed within reach of newcomers. We're seeing lap times within a second of the quickest 17.5 TC cars at our track. You start putting more power into a RWD rubber tire pan car and it becomes too difficult to drive. It was meant to be a fun class with a scale look but we know how that goes after while in competition.

Remember when F1 was first coming around it was't abnormal for people to run gyro's in them until tire technology caught up and allowed for better traction.

UF1 rules still allow the independent suspension which a lot of tracks follow but indoor carpet traction negates the advantage you see with the FGX in favor of pure speed and efficiency.
If that was truly the goal then going to 1s would achieve a better result. I have done the experiment my self. These cars are especially hard to drive in lower traction condition. Running 1s greatly reduce a lot of the initial torque that makes these cars hard to drive. It also feels a lot more like silver can motors with 1s.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:08 AM   #4806
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I think the problem with 1S is then your into voltage boosters or special ESC's. F1 originally was 17.5 or 21.5 so the progression just happened naturally and likely F1 guys didn't want to have to buy new batteries and electronics. Kinda following what VTA was doing.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:31 AM   #4807
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Taking even more weight off the cars with 1s doesnt help them. It slows them down but the cars drive better a little heavier.

I would say that since tamiya/ tcs drove by a lot of the rules for the class intially, and the original Uf1 people were mostly tamiya track locals, thats the reason for 2s. Not a ton of 1/12 familiarity.

25.5 popped up almost simultaneously in Ohio and southern California. It just makes for better racing. Not to mention 21.5 and 17.5 are approaching warp speed with the new motors out now.

I think the full suspension cars are great but it probably would have killed the class if xray and awesomatix brought out $500 2wd f1 cars. I know i saw a post from Oleg of Awesomatix stating his interest in building a full suspension car if it would be allowed in the rules.
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:54 AM   #4808
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Taking even more weight off the cars with 1s doesnt help them. It slows them down but the cars drive better a little heavier.

I would say that since tamiya/ tcs drove by a lot of the rules for the class intially, and the original Uf1 people were mostly tamiya track locals, thats the reason for 2s. Not a ton of 1/12 familiarity.

25.5 popped up almost simultaneously in Ohio and southern California. It just makes for better racing. Not to mention 21.5 and 17.5 are approaching warp speed with the new motors out now.

I think the full suspension cars are great but it probably would have killed the class if xray and awesomatix brought out $500 2wd f1 cars. I know i saw a post from Oleg of Awesomatix stating his interest in building a full suspension car if it would be allowed in the rules.
Running 1s doesn't mean you can't add more weight to the car. What I'm saying is it doesn't really matter what the current rules are, they can always be changed. If we are after better racing and easier f1 to drive then we can still do better than 2s 25.5. Am I wrong? Don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Like I said I have done the experiment.

Regarding cost, it would be more sad when Xray brings out a $500 live axle car. It's getting there. They are 350 to 380 now but in a few more years they will be 450 then 500. Just because you make the car more realistic doesn't mean it will cost more. I see 4wd touring chassis that cost less than an Xray solid axle f1.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:11 PM   #4809
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Planning to run my fgx at some club races at speedworld rc in Sacramento. What size pinion should I start with? I've seen some fgx's with tall pinions in lue of the small(er) spur. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:59 PM   #4810
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If the fgx is close to 1050g, then it should not loose too much down the straight...
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Originally Posted by VegasHB View Post
ROAR rules allow only solid rear axle and the fact that most tracks went to 25.5 motors. The gear box of the FGX kills the speed and efficiency needed with the 25.5 motors. Had to hang up my FGX because of this. It would out handle any pan car F1 but was getting killed on the straight aways and motor was already running too hot.
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Old 01-20-2017, 08:59 AM   #4811
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Planning to run my fgx at some club races at speedworld rc in Sacramento. What size pinion should I start with? I've seen some fgx's with tall pinions in lue of the small(er) spur. Any help is appreciated.
Do you have the fast gear set? It will allow you to gear for all track size. It's hard to say what you need to start with. That really depends of track size, motor and timing.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:11 AM   #4812
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If the fgx is close to 1050g, then it should not loose too much down the straight...
It's not easy to get an FGX to 1050. I built a custom top deck out of carbon, added the fast gear set, did the exotek front end conversion, low profile shorty etc and it's just not there in speed. You have 3-4 gears with bearings eating away at the efficiency vs a pan car with 1 gear and 2 bearings.

Trust me, i'm still in love with the FGX but it's too much work to get it competitive nowadays. Such a badass car and design, makes me sad really that it's all pan car now.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:28 AM   #4813
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Running 1s doesn't mean you can't add more weight to the car. What I'm saying is it doesn't really matter what the current rules are, they can always be changed. If we are after better racing and easier f1 to drive then we can still do better than 2s 25.5. Am I wrong? Don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself. Like I said I have done the experiment.

Regarding cost, it would be more sad when Xray brings out a $500 live axle car. It's getting there. They are 350 to 380 now but in a few more years they will be 450 then 500. Just because you make the car more realistic doesn't mean it will cost more. I see 4wd touring chassis that cost less than an Xray solid axle f1.
I think there is room for a sub $400 full suspension kit. I still love my FGX and would really have liked to see some more effort in this direction. On the argument of 1S or 2S, we need a solution to instant acceleration and make the cars more "Mabuchi" like. Sadly no F1 rules updates have come down, so technically it is still a grass roots class. UF1 was great, but ROAR did or has not officially adopt that rule set. 1S is a step in the right direction as I've tested it also. It does make any brushless car more driveable. To those who will argue that you need to practice and build more skill, I'll let you come race V_squared any day of the week. He's not trash talking and has participated in TCS in the past. We all understand when our equipment exceeds our skill, but if start out so far ahead that the learning curve is unrealistic people walk away. At this point bashing is more fun.
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:52 AM   #4814
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Planning to run my fgx at some club races at speedworld rc in Sacramento. What size pinion should I start with? I've seen some fgx's with tall pinions in lue of the small(er) spur. Any help is appreciated.
I will check my pinion for you when I get home.
I have run my FGX 21.5 at Speedworld.
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:56 AM   #4815
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I will check my pinion for you when I get home.
I have run my FGX 21.5 at Speedworld.
I don't have the fast gear set. Stock gearing for now. Gonna be running a 21.5 setup. Thanks
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