2897Likes1/10 R/C F1's...Pics, Discussions, Whatever...
07-25-2009, 09:25 AM
#482
07-25-2009, 12:22 PM
#483
F103.5 Frankenstein?
Hi Vyger,
Regarding my doubts on building the F104 PRO kit (or maybe just selling it), here are some questions and considerations and please anybody that has some input fell free...
1. The F104 has the folowing challenges (I picked them up on this forum and at RCUNIVERSE)
A) Problems pushing (because of the battery position)
B) Difficult to adjust height of front suspension (specially if you want to lower it)
C) Little space for wiring and electronics.
I will ad:
D) Tree piece body, more likely to fall apart in collisions that the one piece body's for the F103 (even if you are a great driver, somebody like me will crash into you at some time and by, by, sides)
C) After spending an average of $230, still you have basic Ho-ups to buy:
-Tamiya (#54169) F104 Aluminum Pivot Post $14
-Tamiya (#54166) F104 Motor Mount $20
-Tamiya (#54165) F104 Soft T-Bar $10
-Tamiya (#84058) F104 Titanium Screw Set $32
-Tamiya (#53149) F-1 Low-Friction Oads $9.00
2. I' am just getting to know my set up and operation on the F103R.
The F104 Pro has "in theory":
- Better front suspension (but does it?)
- More efficient gear and differential parts (have heard no comment so far)
- The looks I question (but it's not important) although, it appears that the "C" body from the F103 has better performance, based on your posted info.
The question is: would it be better (and possible) just to combine the front suspension and gear differential from the F104 (including maybe: front / rear tires and shaft?) to make a Frankenstein F103.5 ?
Wold this solve the push issue?
It would save $$$
Let me know your toughs,
Cheers!
Regarding my doubts on building the F104 PRO kit (or maybe just selling it), here are some questions and considerations and please anybody that has some input fell free...
1. The F104 has the folowing challenges (I picked them up on this forum and at RCUNIVERSE)
A) Problems pushing (because of the battery position)
B) Difficult to adjust height of front suspension (specially if you want to lower it)
C) Little space for wiring and electronics.
I will ad:
D) Tree piece body, more likely to fall apart in collisions that the one piece body's for the F103 (even if you are a great driver, somebody like me will crash into you at some time and by, by, sides)
C) After spending an average of $230, still you have basic Ho-ups to buy:
-Tamiya (#54169) F104 Aluminum Pivot Post $14
-Tamiya (#54166) F104 Motor Mount $20
-Tamiya (#54165) F104 Soft T-Bar $10
-Tamiya (#84058) F104 Titanium Screw Set $32
-Tamiya (#53149) F-1 Low-Friction Oads $9.00
2. I' am just getting to know my set up and operation on the F103R.
The F104 Pro has "in theory":
- Better front suspension (but does it?)
- More efficient gear and differential parts (have heard no comment so far)
- The looks I question (but it's not important) although, it appears that the "C" body from the F103 has better performance, based on your posted info.
The question is: would it be better (and possible) just to combine the front suspension and gear differential from the F104 (including maybe: front / rear tires and shaft?) to make a Frankenstein F103.5 ?
Wold this solve the push issue?
It would save $$$
Let me know your toughs,
Cheers!
Last edited by HeliYogi; 07-25-2009 at 02:11 PM.
07-25-2009, 12:39 PM
#484
Hi Vyger,
Regarding my doubts on building the F104 PRO kit (or maybe just selling it), here are some questions and considerations and please anybody that has some input fell free...
1. The F104 has the folowing challenges (I picked them up on this forum and at RCUNIVERSE)
A) Problems pushing (because of the battery position)
B) Difficult to adjust height of front suspension (specially if you want to lower it)
C) Little space for wiring and electronics.
I will ad:
D) Tree piece body, more likely to fall apart in collisions that the one piece body's for the F103 (even if you are a great driver, somebody like me will crash into you at some time and by, by, sides)
C) After spending an average of $230, still you have basic Ho-ups to buy:
-Tamiya (#54169) F104 Aluminum Pivot Post $14
-Tamiya (#54166) F104 Motor Mount $20
-Tamiya (#54165) F104 Soft T-Bar $10
-Tamiya (#84058) F104 Titanium Screw Set $32
2. I' am just getting to know my set up and operation on the F103R.
The F104 Pro has "in theory":
- Better front suspension (but does it?)
- More efficient gear and differential parts (have heard no comment so far)
- The looks I question (but it's not important) although, it appears that the "C" body from the F103 has better performance, based on your posted info.
The question is: would it be better (and possible) just to combine the front suspension and gear differential from the F104 (including maybe: front / rear tires and shaft?) to make a Frankenstein F103.5 ?
Wold this solve the push issue?
It would save $$$
Let me know your toughs,
Cheers!
Regarding my doubts on building the F104 PRO kit (or maybe just selling it), here are some questions and considerations and please anybody that has some input fell free...
1. The F104 has the folowing challenges (I picked them up on this forum and at RCUNIVERSE)
A) Problems pushing (because of the battery position)
B) Difficult to adjust height of front suspension (specially if you want to lower it)
C) Little space for wiring and electronics.
I will ad:
D) Tree piece body, more likely to fall apart in collisions that the one piece body's for the F103 (even if you are a great driver, somebody like me will crash into you at some time and by, by, sides)
C) After spending an average of $230, still you have basic Ho-ups to buy:
-Tamiya (#54169) F104 Aluminum Pivot Post $14
-Tamiya (#54166) F104 Motor Mount $20
-Tamiya (#54165) F104 Soft T-Bar $10
-Tamiya (#84058) F104 Titanium Screw Set $32
2. I' am just getting to know my set up and operation on the F103R.
The F104 Pro has "in theory":
- Better front suspension (but does it?)
- More efficient gear and differential parts (have heard no comment so far)
- The looks I question (but it's not important) although, it appears that the "C" body from the F103 has better performance, based on your posted info.
The question is: would it be better (and possible) just to combine the front suspension and gear differential from the F104 (including maybe: front / rear tires and shaft?) to make a Frankenstein F103.5 ?
Wold this solve the push issue?
It would save $$$
Let me know your toughs,
Cheers!
Just my $02
07-25-2009, 01:07 PM
#485
Thanks Shadow
I dont have a 104 yet, but I would be willing to bet that it wont be long before the minor issues with the car are sorted out. Most of the postings on here are made with very little development time on the setups. I think the 104 is going to be the car to have before too long. The 103 will still be a competitive package, but parts will become difficult to come by before too long.
Just my $02
Just my $02
07-25-2009, 03:24 PM
#486
Hey Yogi,
I don’t know if I would sell it, unless you are truly not happy with the car. You have to realize that the F103 has had over a decade of development behind it. The F104 has had only a couple of months. That’s a huge difference when it comes to finding a good set by asking questions on the forums.
1a) From my experience almost every car I’ve purchased from Tamiya has a push right out of the box. I think they do on purpose to make it a bit easier to drive. But with tuning the push can be dialed out. I’ve seen this at the track with my own eyes.
1b) I may have missed something but I don’t think the front end is that hard to adjust. You pop off the C-clip, drop the king pin and move the three spacer around to get the ride height your looking for, then reassemble. Mine is sitting with full size tires and it’s slammed to the ground.
1c) The wiring is a challenge, but with limited space because of the battery location and the narrower body the options are truly limited. But it is possible to get a clean wire job. The main thing to watch for is keeping the rear pod free. Don’t let the wires get bound up between the chassis and the body.
1d) Regarding the body, I don’t think its flimsy at all. When the three pieces are assembled correctly, meaning locked into place, and then attached using double sided tape, and finally secured with six screws washers and a nut, it’s very solid. And in my opinion one of the best looking modern bodies offered to date. I think the focus with this issue is not to hit things, or other people. But I understand it’s not avoidable sometimes. Don’t take this the wrong way, but think about it like this; if you improve your driving skills you won’t need an indestructible body.
1e) Not all of the hop-ups are necessary, start small and get the real necessities. I would suggest the motor mount and soft T-plate, then the other stuff. You don’t “need” all of these parts to make the car work. I’ve seen plenty of them getting around the track just fine in stock configuration.
2) If you’re more comfortable with the F103 and don’t want to spend the money then I would suggest sticking to that car. You can always purchase another one down the road after there has been more development. It’s hard for me to say if any of the new bits are “better” or “more efficient”. They are just newer, further enhancements of proven F103 components. Time will tell if the parts and car are truly better.
Yes you could make a hybrid F103.5. I’ve seen pics on the net that some did. Does it work better, don’t know. Was it worth the time and money, don’t know. Basically you’re just making a short chassis F104, so wouldn’t you be starting off with a new car, like the F104.
These are just my thoughts on your questions. Don’t get discouraged about any of it. Remember, it’s supposed to be a hobby. We’re all grown men playing with toy cars on a toy race car track. It’s supposed to be FUN.
Vyg
I don’t know if I would sell it, unless you are truly not happy with the car. You have to realize that the F103 has had over a decade of development behind it. The F104 has had only a couple of months. That’s a huge difference when it comes to finding a good set by asking questions on the forums.
1a) From my experience almost every car I’ve purchased from Tamiya has a push right out of the box. I think they do on purpose to make it a bit easier to drive. But with tuning the push can be dialed out. I’ve seen this at the track with my own eyes.
1b) I may have missed something but I don’t think the front end is that hard to adjust. You pop off the C-clip, drop the king pin and move the three spacer around to get the ride height your looking for, then reassemble. Mine is sitting with full size tires and it’s slammed to the ground.
1c) The wiring is a challenge, but with limited space because of the battery location and the narrower body the options are truly limited. But it is possible to get a clean wire job. The main thing to watch for is keeping the rear pod free. Don’t let the wires get bound up between the chassis and the body.
1d) Regarding the body, I don’t think its flimsy at all. When the three pieces are assembled correctly, meaning locked into place, and then attached using double sided tape, and finally secured with six screws washers and a nut, it’s very solid. And in my opinion one of the best looking modern bodies offered to date. I think the focus with this issue is not to hit things, or other people. But I understand it’s not avoidable sometimes. Don’t take this the wrong way, but think about it like this; if you improve your driving skills you won’t need an indestructible body.
1e) Not all of the hop-ups are necessary, start small and get the real necessities. I would suggest the motor mount and soft T-plate, then the other stuff. You don’t “need” all of these parts to make the car work. I’ve seen plenty of them getting around the track just fine in stock configuration.
2) If you’re more comfortable with the F103 and don’t want to spend the money then I would suggest sticking to that car. You can always purchase another one down the road after there has been more development. It’s hard for me to say if any of the new bits are “better” or “more efficient”. They are just newer, further enhancements of proven F103 components. Time will tell if the parts and car are truly better.
Yes you could make a hybrid F103.5. I’ve seen pics on the net that some did. Does it work better, don’t know. Was it worth the time and money, don’t know. Basically you’re just making a short chassis F104, so wouldn’t you be starting off with a new car, like the F104.
These are just my thoughts on your questions. Don’t get discouraged about any of it. Remember, it’s supposed to be a hobby. We’re all grown men playing with toy cars on a toy race car track. It’s supposed to be FUN.
Vyg
07-25-2009, 05:03 PM
#488
When in doubt... ask the "Guru"
Hey Vyger!
For those of us who like and practice Yoga, there is the "Guru" wich is the Sanskrit word for teacher or guide.
So thanks to our F1-Guru
(I'm keeping it. Ordering the motor and soft plate hop-ups today)
For those of us who like and practice Yoga, there is the "Guru" wich is the Sanskrit word for teacher or guide.
So thanks to our F1-Guru
(I'm keeping it. Ordering the motor and soft plate hop-ups today)
07-25-2009, 08:36 PM
#489
hi HeliYogi,
i would agree that the F-104 may have a few niggling "glitches..." but theres nothing a good weekend of testing wont fix...
as Vyger said, the F-103 has 15 years of development while the F-104 may have had barely 15 weeks of track time in the hands of those that bought them... myself included. but the push issue you mentioned before hasnt happened to me so far...
1. The F104 has the folowing challenges
A) Problems pushing (because of the battery position)
the 103 would have even more understeer because most of the weight is towards the back... unless youre running lipos
B) Difficult to adjust height of front suspension (specially if you want to lower it)
granted that you have to do some wrenching to adjust its ride height but its still better than having no ride height options on the 103.
C) Little space for wiring and electronics.
i beg to disagree... the 104 now has more room for electronics plus transponder than the 103. ive always struggled to arrange the electronics on my 103 without distorting the body.
I will add:
D) Three piece body, more likely to fall apart in collisions that the one piece body's for the F103 (even if you are a great driver, somebody like me will crash into you at some time and by, by, sides)
not a problem if you decide not to use the sidepods. i havent used the sidepods on mine and it hasnt affected the handling of the car.
C) After spending an average of $230, still you have basic Ho-ups to buy:
-Tamiya (#54169) F104 Aluminum Pivot Post $14
-Tamiya (#54166) F104 Motor Mount $20
-Tamiya (#54165) F104 Soft T-Bar $10
-Tamiya (#84058) F104 Titanium Screw Set $32
-Tamiya (#53149) F-1 Low-Friction Pads $9.00
only had to buy the motor mount for cooling purposes... the other parts ive had no need for it coz the handling on my 104 is pretty good for me...
just my 2 cents bro.
peace!
i would agree that the F-104 may have a few niggling "glitches..." but theres nothing a good weekend of testing wont fix...
as Vyger said, the F-103 has 15 years of development while the F-104 may have had barely 15 weeks of track time in the hands of those that bought them... myself included. but the push issue you mentioned before hasnt happened to me so far...
1. The F104 has the folowing challenges
A) Problems pushing (because of the battery position)
the 103 would have even more understeer because most of the weight is towards the back... unless youre running lipos
B) Difficult to adjust height of front suspension (specially if you want to lower it)
granted that you have to do some wrenching to adjust its ride height but its still better than having no ride height options on the 103.
C) Little space for wiring and electronics.
i beg to disagree... the 104 now has more room for electronics plus transponder than the 103. ive always struggled to arrange the electronics on my 103 without distorting the body.
I will add:
D) Three piece body, more likely to fall apart in collisions that the one piece body's for the F103 (even if you are a great driver, somebody like me will crash into you at some time and by, by, sides)
not a problem if you decide not to use the sidepods. i havent used the sidepods on mine and it hasnt affected the handling of the car.
C) After spending an average of $230, still you have basic Ho-ups to buy:
-Tamiya (#54169) F104 Aluminum Pivot Post $14
-Tamiya (#54166) F104 Motor Mount $20
-Tamiya (#54165) F104 Soft T-Bar $10
-Tamiya (#84058) F104 Titanium Screw Set $32
-Tamiya (#53149) F-1 Low-Friction Pads $9.00
only had to buy the motor mount for cooling purposes... the other parts ive had no need for it coz the handling on my 104 is pretty good for me...
just my 2 cents bro.
peace!
07-25-2009, 08:58 PM
#491
Thanks Tommi!
"Just my 2 cents bro."
Hey man for me it's priceless advice!
You guys cheered me up to go ahead and build the kit. I just order the metal mounts for the motor and will start putting it together as soon as I have them.
Cheers!
Hey man for me it's priceless advice!
You guys cheered me up to go ahead and build the kit. I just order the metal mounts for the motor and will start putting it together as soon as I have them.
Cheers!
Last edited by HeliYogi; 07-25-2009 at 09:16 PM.
07-26-2009, 09:34 AM
#492
Tech Master
iTrader: (28)
Photos from a soon to be released article authored by David Jun on the F104 at http://www.tamiyausa.com/
Article to include set-ups, tips, tricks etc.
Article to include set-ups, tips, tricks etc.
BTW - I had a chance to run F1's with D Jun Saturday. His F104 (with hop-ups) worked well for it's maiden voyage
07-26-2009, 09:56 AM
#493
Nuts...everybody's got their F1s done or nearly done...mine's perpetually stuck on step 1 
Everytime, I think about building it and opening the box, I am greated with a polycarbonate reminder of how long it's going to take to paint an R24/25 scheme
Maybe I should paint a BAR body instead 
Everytime, I think about building it and opening the box, I am greated with a polycarbonate reminder of how long it's going to take to paint an R24/25 scheme Maybe I should paint a BAR body instead
07-26-2009, 07:13 PM
#494
Tech Rookie
Hey Vyger....
Thanks for the wiring pics. The heat wrap really keeps things neat and clean. It worked like a charm. Used your set up as inspiration.
I decided to mount the heat wrap with clips to the top of the upper chassis. I was a little worried with the tight fit of the battery rubbing on the mounted heat wrap on the floor of the chassis. So basically the same set up that you have except mounted to the upper chassis.
yours looks much more immaculate tho... thanks again for the pics.
I decided to mount the heat wrap with clips to the top of the upper chassis. I was a little worried with the tight fit of the battery rubbing on the mounted heat wrap on the floor of the chassis. So basically the same set up that you have except mounted to the upper chassis.
yours looks much more immaculate tho... thanks again for the pics.
07-26-2009, 07:19 PM
#495
Nuts...everybody's got their F1s done or nearly done...mine's perpetually stuck on step 1 Everytime, I think about building it and opening the box, I am greated with a polycarbonate reminder of how long it's going to take to paint an R24/25 scheme Maybe I should paint a BAR body instead
Everytime, I think about building it and opening the box, I am greated with a polycarbonate reminder of how long it's going to take to paint an R24/25 scheme Maybe I should paint a BAR body instead