8LikesCRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks
09-12-2008, 06:57 AM
#286
might very well be but we are talking oval here Pink LF is normal
John have you ever tried to replace the upper link the one that goes over the pod with a shock.
09-12-2008, 10:33 AM
#287
This type of suspension wouldn't work with a shock in place of one of the links - that's where the rear pod gets its stability; replacing it with something that isn't stable (moves along its length) would remove that.
His pod floats smoothly up and down - allowing it to pivot as well would not give any additional benefit.
His pod floats smoothly up and down - allowing it to pivot as well would not give any additional benefit.
09-12-2008, 11:15 AM
#288
Thanks for the post guys. Nice to have some discussion.
The 3-link suspension has no center pivot or T-plate. This might be obscured in the photos. The only allowed motion with 3 links and a panhard bar is up and down (and rotation side to side only) for the pod. That is why the shocks are vertical. Depending on the top link length (if shorter than the bottom links) there is some slight pod rotation. The purpose of the 3-link is to eliminate that center shock that quite indirectly forces wheels down from a bump on one side. It also eliminates the need for the heavy motor and pod to rotate in a bump. This quickens the reaction of the pod back down after a bump. The summation makes response to bumps much quicker and more effective. Forward traction on a bumpy road course straight is improved 10-15% with high powered mod motors. Another benefit is that along with uneven length front a-arms and fully dampened front end the car does not tend to fly over the bumps at speed (think velodrome ready). I had an associated front end on this car recently. I improved 2 laps on our short oval just changing the front end to the uneven length dampened one. It has superior traction and precision of steering.
I have added and then later removed a third shock to add left downtweak. It was not helpful on this chassis. I can add sufficient downtweak by adjustin that left rear shock collar down. You can see that in the rear view photo above.
There are a couple videos on the table top showing how this suspension moves. The first is a similar 3-link on my wide pan car. The main difference is the panhard bar is in the back and the shocks in the front. On my 200 mm car the Panhard bar is forward and shocks back.
http://hometown.aol.com/johnstranahan/3-LinkSuspensionDemo.wmv
This second video shows the effect of better antisquat on a semi-striped 3-link rear end on the 200mm car. You get a little more forward bite out of a corner as a result. As the chassis tends to lift on acceleration the rear tires are forced into the ground by opposite and equal reaction.
http://hometown.aol.com/johnstranahan/AntisquatDemo.wmv
I will be trying those inside pinks on the car.
John
The 3-link suspension has no center pivot or T-plate. This might be obscured in the photos. The only allowed motion with 3 links and a panhard bar is up and down (and rotation side to side only) for the pod. That is why the shocks are vertical. Depending on the top link length (if shorter than the bottom links) there is some slight pod rotation. The purpose of the 3-link is to eliminate that center shock that quite indirectly forces wheels down from a bump on one side. It also eliminates the need for the heavy motor and pod to rotate in a bump. This quickens the reaction of the pod back down after a bump. The summation makes response to bumps much quicker and more effective. Forward traction on a bumpy road course straight is improved 10-15% with high powered mod motors. Another benefit is that along with uneven length front a-arms and fully dampened front end the car does not tend to fly over the bumps at speed (think velodrome ready). I had an associated front end on this car recently. I improved 2 laps on our short oval just changing the front end to the uneven length dampened one. It has superior traction and precision of steering.
I have added and then later removed a third shock to add left downtweak. It was not helpful on this chassis. I can add sufficient downtweak by adjustin that left rear shock collar down. You can see that in the rear view photo above.
There are a couple videos on the table top showing how this suspension moves. The first is a similar 3-link on my wide pan car. The main difference is the panhard bar is in the back and the shocks in the front. On my 200 mm car the Panhard bar is forward and shocks back.
http://hometown.aol.com/johnstranahan/3-LinkSuspensionDemo.wmv
This second video shows the effect of better antisquat on a semi-striped 3-link rear end on the 200mm car. You get a little more forward bite out of a corner as a result. As the chassis tends to lift on acceleration the rear tires are forced into the ground by opposite and equal reaction.
http://hometown.aol.com/johnstranahan/AntisquatDemo.wmv
I will be trying those inside pinks on the car.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-12-2008 at 02:57 PM.
09-12-2008, 02:57 PM
#290
The red Aluminum ball stud should be .1675 inch OD. Any Losi or Associated 1/10 scale ballstud should fit. The shaft is a #4-40 thread so that means pre TC5 for Associated. I personally like to replace this with a steel ball stud for better wear.
john
john
09-20-2008, 01:44 PM
#292
Lieb2-Thanks. I needed to.
I thought I would give a little Hurricane Ike report as that is the reason I have been away from the computer. I survived the Hurricane in place. 50 souls did not. I am 50 miles fromt the coast, but we sustained 80-100 mph winds for two 4 hour sessions. The eye passed very near. We have mostly tree and roof damage in our neighborhood, but I saw the surge tide rising in the street as the current reversed for a time. Thats 50 miles away and we are getting surge tide up the bayou. I lost 3 trees. I lost power and still have not regained it 1 week after the storm. Quick action by the mayor and Center Point restored water pressure just as it was about to run out. Temps have been somewhat mild. 4 million people without out power. Most of galveston under 5 feet of water inside the homes. A lot of house destruction on the coast.
Battle Axe
I received a CRC newsletter by e-mail in the interim. There are some exciting changes to the Battle axe coming. LiPo ready, Offset Pod, Some as of yet not mentioned trickery to the rear pod. I was promised one of the first cars off this new run gratis. Look to see it here soon. I will ask for all the new goodies in place as that is probably what we will be running. LiPo 13.5 on asphalt with offset pod like the other guys here run.
pic:carport next door, typical park scene right now, typical huge tree. This one blocked the road until locals sawed it up.
John
I thought I would give a little Hurricane Ike report as that is the reason I have been away from the computer. I survived the Hurricane in place. 50 souls did not. I am 50 miles fromt the coast, but we sustained 80-100 mph winds for two 4 hour sessions. The eye passed very near. We have mostly tree and roof damage in our neighborhood, but I saw the surge tide rising in the street as the current reversed for a time. Thats 50 miles away and we are getting surge tide up the bayou. I lost 3 trees. I lost power and still have not regained it 1 week after the storm. Quick action by the mayor and Center Point restored water pressure just as it was about to run out. Temps have been somewhat mild. 4 million people without out power. Most of galveston under 5 feet of water inside the homes. A lot of house destruction on the coast.
Battle Axe
I received a CRC newsletter by e-mail in the interim. There are some exciting changes to the Battle axe coming. LiPo ready, Offset Pod, Some as of yet not mentioned trickery to the rear pod. I was promised one of the first cars off this new run gratis. Look to see it here soon. I will ask for all the new goodies in place as that is probably what we will be running. LiPo 13.5 on asphalt with offset pod like the other guys here run.
pic:carport next door, typical park scene right now, typical huge tree. This one blocked the road until locals sawed it up.
John
09-20-2008, 02:16 PM
#293
Tech Master
iTrader: (21)
Hurricane Ike
Lieb2-Thanks. I needed to.
I thought I would give a little Hurricane Ike report as that is the reason I have been away from the computer. I survived the Hurricane in place. 50 souls did not. I am 50 miles fromt the coast, but we sustained 80-100 mph winds for two 4 hour sessions. The eye passed very near. We have mostly tree and roof damage in our neighborhood, but I saw the surge tide rising in the street as the current reversed for a time. Thats 50 miles away and we are getting surge tide up the bayou. I lost 3 trees. I lost power and still have not regained it 1 week after the storm. Quick action by the mayor and Center Point restored water pressure just as it was about to run out. Temps have been somewhat mild. 4 million people without out power. Most of galveston under 5 feet of water inside the homes. A lot of house destruction on the coast.
John
I thought I would give a little Hurricane Ike report as that is the reason I have been away from the computer. I survived the Hurricane in place. 50 souls did not. I am 50 miles fromt the coast, but we sustained 80-100 mph winds for two 4 hour sessions. The eye passed very near. We have mostly tree and roof damage in our neighborhood, but I saw the surge tide rising in the street as the current reversed for a time. Thats 50 miles away and we are getting surge tide up the bayou. I lost 3 trees. I lost power and still have not regained it 1 week after the storm. Quick action by the mayor and Center Point restored water pressure just as it was about to run out. Temps have been somewhat mild. 4 million people without out power. Most of galveston under 5 feet of water inside the homes. A lot of house destruction on the coast.
John
Is there amything you need?
Glad to hear your okay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick
09-20-2008, 09:18 PM
#295
John glad you are ok.
My parents live in Brazoira County and they evacuated for the strom. They faired a litte better than most with only lossing a 20 y/o fence and a few shingles. It wasn't a real loss as the fence was going to get replaced after my dog started knocked holes through it. They finally made it home yesterday and stocked up at a Wal*Mart in Alabama.
I live in Missouri and ended up having a few limbs tossed out of my trees from the 60mph IKE. I was driving back form St. Louis when IKE passed over me and it was a bit scary once and a while when the car would hydroplane sideways from the wind.
Once I got home found out I had to attened a funeral in Dayton, OH 2 days later. I had a heck of a time trying to get a motel since all were booked with nearly 1/3 of the town was powerless Driving through ohio I saw barns and houses with torn off roofs and trees laying down from IKE's Path.
All I can say, even though IKE was only a Cat 2, It sure was big and traveled about 4000mi as developed storm.
My parents live in Brazoira County and they evacuated for the strom. They faired a litte better than most with only lossing a 20 y/o fence and a few shingles. It wasn't a real loss as the fence was going to get replaced after my dog started knocked holes through it. They finally made it home yesterday and stocked up at a Wal*Mart in Alabama.
I live in Missouri and ended up having a few limbs tossed out of my trees from the 60mph IKE. I was driving back form St. Louis when IKE passed over me and it was a bit scary once and a while when the car would hydroplane sideways from the wind.
Once I got home found out I had to attened a funeral in Dayton, OH 2 days later. I had a heck of a time trying to get a motel since all were booked with nearly 1/3 of the town was powerless Driving through ohio I saw barns and houses with torn off roofs and trees laying down from IKE's Path.
All I can say, even though IKE was only a Cat 2, It sure was big and traveled about 4000mi as developed storm.
09-21-2008, 06:04 PM
#296
Had a great day of practice after the storm. All the oval guys showed. A few practiced.
Josh- Thanks for the report. Damage was spread widely it seems. Still no power.
I have five votes for 13.5/LiPo now. All have driven my car with thiis setup. All thought just "a little getting used to it" and they would be in good form. I agreed from wathcing. This will be the combo I am reporrting on then.
Tire test. I showed up with XXPink fronts and XXPink/purple rears. I gave the track a light coat of sugar for medium to medium low traction. This tire combination worked fine for me. Richard drove it and had a few too many corner exit hooks. This may be our single worst problem on the oval. Anyway I intended to try Jakes suggested tires and did so front and back. I ran pink LF
Purple RF
Pink LR
Purple RR
I have tried this front tire combination on two cars now but had not tried this particular comination on the back. I have mentioned what I think is the cause of corner exit hooking so I thought I would again. As the car nears corner exit the right rear tire is highly loaded. You can tell so because the car rolls and this tire wears faster than its left counterpart. When you apply some throttle with the car in this condition You get huge torque steer from the right rear. The fronts actually let go of the pavement and the car hooks TO THE INSIDE BOARD. This means it is not your typical oversteer and will not resmpond to treatments to reduce oversteer.
So what happens with a pink on the left rear and a purple on the right rear. The purple is more loaded but the pink has more forward bite. Things get more balanced. Richard was able to drive the car smoothly now with no corner exit hooking. I could also, but could with the previous tires as well. So add this to your arsenal on how to cure corner exit hooking. The car was going bullet straight on corner exit. No wiggle to the inside.
more left rear down tweak, this loads the inside rear tire
left rear steer, rear steers left car goes right
left rear positive offset, more left rear torque steer, car goes right
SOFTER LEFT REAR TIRE, more left rear torque steer car goes right.
Thanks Dave. Now I do plan to put this on the clock as well. I was not meeting last practice target times, but I had less traction on purpose. I felt that forward traction out of the corner was slightly lacking with the rear combo, but it was really easy to drive which may compensate. Need the clock.
John
Josh- Thanks for the report. Damage was spread widely it seems. Still no power.
I have five votes for 13.5/LiPo now. All have driven my car with thiis setup. All thought just "a little getting used to it" and they would be in good form. I agreed from wathcing. This will be the combo I am reporrting on then.
Tire test. I showed up with XXPink fronts and XXPink/purple rears. I gave the track a light coat of sugar for medium to medium low traction. This tire combination worked fine for me. Richard drove it and had a few too many corner exit hooks. This may be our single worst problem on the oval. Anyway I intended to try Jakes suggested tires and did so front and back. I ran pink LF
Purple RF
Pink LR
Purple RR
I have tried this front tire combination on two cars now but had not tried this particular comination on the back. I have mentioned what I think is the cause of corner exit hooking so I thought I would again. As the car nears corner exit the right rear tire is highly loaded. You can tell so because the car rolls and this tire wears faster than its left counterpart. When you apply some throttle with the car in this condition You get huge torque steer from the right rear. The fronts actually let go of the pavement and the car hooks TO THE INSIDE BOARD. This means it is not your typical oversteer and will not resmpond to treatments to reduce oversteer.
So what happens with a pink on the left rear and a purple on the right rear. The purple is more loaded but the pink has more forward bite. Things get more balanced. Richard was able to drive the car smoothly now with no corner exit hooking. I could also, but could with the previous tires as well. So add this to your arsenal on how to cure corner exit hooking. The car was going bullet straight on corner exit. No wiggle to the inside.
more left rear down tweak, this loads the inside rear tire
left rear steer, rear steers left car goes right
left rear positive offset, more left rear torque steer, car goes right
SOFTER LEFT REAR TIRE, more left rear torque steer car goes right.
Thanks Dave. Now I do plan to put this on the clock as well. I was not meeting last practice target times, but I had less traction on purpose. I felt that forward traction out of the corner was slightly lacking with the rear combo, but it was really easy to drive which may compensate. Need the clock.
John
09-22-2008, 03:11 AM
#297
09-22-2008, 06:19 AM
#298
Here is a good photo of the car. The main difference is the Aluminum uprights to hold and adjust the upper inner hinge pin.
John
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...ge.php?pID=739
John
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...ge.php?pID=739
09-25-2008, 03:34 PM
#299
SS OVAL
Has anybody run an Axe on a super speedway? My home track is a 400 foot concrete high bank tri-oval. Any existing knowledge on running the axe on such a track would be appreciated.
10-01-2008, 09:08 PM
#300
mhopper. Sorry you did not get a direct reply. A good place to find these velodrome guys is Here. http://www.southwesttour.com/. They do mostly velodrome. Probably no battle axes yet. Look for supply to pick up about the third week of this month. On the velodrome, front shocks are nice, dynamic A-arms top and bottom are nice. There is no kit for sale at this time. Here is a nice shock setup that I put on a Doug Powell chassised Wide Pantoura. The goal is to keep the car from flying over the bumps. If the track is smooth this may not be needed. Full details of this shock setup is in the Pantoura thread.
I have power now, after 16 days without due to Hurricane Ike. Things are returning to normal. Life has been at a standstill. Nice to have a working refrigerator etc. I have had the 13.5 LiPo 3-link oval car to the track several times. With medium-high traction it still prefers XXpink fronts and XXPink/Purple rears. It really scoots out of the corners quickly with this combo. With a bit less traction it was very happy with pinks on the inside and purples on the outside, a little less scoot but very controlable. Race this Sunday.
Battle Axe coming, offset pod maybe, Lipo conversion maybe, Unknown rear pod adjustment coming. Maybe the third week of this month.
John
I have power now, after 16 days without due to Hurricane Ike. Things are returning to normal. Life has been at a standstill. Nice to have a working refrigerator etc. I have had the 13.5 LiPo 3-link oval car to the track several times. With medium-high traction it still prefers XXpink fronts and XXPink/Purple rears. It really scoots out of the corners quickly with this combo. With a bit less traction it was very happy with pinks on the inside and purples on the outside, a little less scoot but very controlable. Race this Sunday.
Battle Axe coming, offset pod maybe, Lipo conversion maybe, Unknown rear pod adjustment coming. Maybe the third week of this month.
John