1LikesCRC Battle Axe, GenXPro 10, 1/10th pan, Brushless, Lipo,4c, Road, Oval,TipsandTricks
09-10-2008, 05:13 PM
#271
Ok I can't take it anymore.
DUDE if you need to put a PINK RF on the car to get it to turn then you have som e serious issues with your car.
matter of fact softest BSR I have ever ran on the RF is a purple
you say you got more steering from purple rears wrong what you did was take grip away from the rear. causing the car to loosen up. that gave the feeling of more front bite.
DUDE if you need to put a PINK RF on the car to get it to turn then you have som e serious issues with your car.
matter of fact softest BSR I have ever ran on the RF is a purple
you say you got more steering from purple rears wrong what you did was take grip away from the rear. causing the car to loosen up. that gave the feeling of more front bite.
09-10-2008, 06:35 PM
#272
Dave-Thanks for the post. I agree with this statement
"you say you got more steering from purple rears wrong what you did was take grip away from the rear. causing the car to loosen up. that gave the feeling of more front bite."
I probably did not state things right. Instead of more steering I maybe could have said balanced the car more toward oversteer. I agree the reason for this is the rear was loosened up.
I had quit using pink fronts for the most part until we had unusually high traction one day. On that day the time sheet told the tale the pink was faster. No apologies for that. I tried several levels of fronts. Second place ran pink as well. He has previous years of experience on the oval. He does not pay any attention to what I do and runs a custom works car, so that is two independent points. If you were at my track you might have tried them as well. I will say that my car is a bit different than most oval cars. The 3 link rear end is more planted than the standard T-plate or center pivot pod rear end. I will be back in a battle axe soon so my tests would relate better.
good to have some help on the oval. Oval is fairly new to me. I have asked for helpers to this thread over at hobby talk. John would be fine.
John
"you say you got more steering from purple rears wrong what you did was take grip away from the rear. causing the car to loosen up. that gave the feeling of more front bite."
I probably did not state things right. Instead of more steering I maybe could have said balanced the car more toward oversteer. I agree the reason for this is the rear was loosened up.
I had quit using pink fronts for the most part until we had unusually high traction one day. On that day the time sheet told the tale the pink was faster. No apologies for that. I tried several levels of fronts. Second place ran pink as well. He has previous years of experience on the oval. He does not pay any attention to what I do and runs a custom works car, so that is two independent points. If you were at my track you might have tried them as well. I will say that my car is a bit different than most oval cars. The 3 link rear end is more planted than the standard T-plate or center pivot pod rear end. I will be back in a battle axe soon so my tests would relate better.
good to have some help on the oval. Oval is fairly new to me. I have asked for helpers to this thread over at hobby talk. John would be fine.
John
09-10-2008, 06:50 PM
#273
John if your new to oval then it is understandable that you'll run the tires that you need to to get the car to turn.
if i was at your track i would gauruntee (spelling lol) that I would never run a pink right front never ever. I have got my car (custom works) to turn very hard with a these tires LF pink RF double purple LR pink RR Double pink
if you can't get the car to turn with a purple or higher RF then you need to make other changes to the car like softer RF spring harder rear springs
you say your friend runs a Custom Works direct him to this thread tons of great info there and pleanty of team drivers there to offer support
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=209938
also you can gain alot of info over at www.hobbytalk.com that is where all the oval guys hangout.
if i was at your track i would gauruntee (spelling lol) that I would never run a pink right front never ever. I have got my car (custom works) to turn very hard with a these tires LF pink RF double purple LR pink RR Double pink
if you can't get the car to turn with a purple or higher RF then you need to make other changes to the car like softer RF spring harder rear springs
you say your friend runs a Custom Works direct him to this thread tons of great info there and pleanty of team drivers there to offer support
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=209938
also you can gain alot of info over at www.hobbytalk.com that is where all the oval guys hangout.
09-10-2008, 06:54 PM
#274
Originally Posted by davepull
Ok I can't take it anymore.
DUDE if you need to put a PINK RF on the car to get it to turn then you have som e serious issues with your car.
matter of fact softest BSR I have ever ran on the RF is a purple
you say you got more steering from purple rears wrong what you did was take grip away from the rear. causing the car to loosen up. that gave the feeling of more front bite.
DUDE if you need to put a PINK RF on the car to get it to turn then you have som e serious issues with your car.
matter of fact softest BSR I have ever ran on the RF is a purple
you say you got more steering from purple rears wrong what you did was take grip away from the rear. causing the car to loosen up. that gave the feeling of more front bite.
EA
09-10-2008, 07:03 PM
#275
ahhhhhh EA but lets not confuse new people to the Hobby Jaco is a great tire but they have a wide range of hardesses for there tires you can buy 3 sets of jaco double pinks and they will durometer all over the place so my guess would be that the tire G honey was running was closer (in hardness) to a purple.
09-10-2008, 07:10 PM
#276
Nice to see some combinations in print. I'll give them a try.
With 13.5/LiPo the front pinks pretty much shreded away more quickly than normal. I will be running harder from a wear standpoint. The car was driving well, though. The same happens on my wide 3.5 powered pan on the road course. Pinks shred, purples hook up almost as good on the front.
The customworks guy is not an internet type. He has traveled to both the carpet and asphalt oval nats, though, (Nathan, D). He picks up tips there. Some of these I posted on my previous Pantoura thread. I do try them all. I do trust the clock though.
Here is a top view of my car. Front tires wear very evenly compared to a normal pan. It has independent front. The three-link rear is very different from a standard pan. It is home-made by me.
I hang out at Hobbytalk. I post there only once in a while.
john
With 13.5/LiPo the front pinks pretty much shreded away more quickly than normal. I will be running harder from a wear standpoint. The car was driving well, though. The same happens on my wide 3.5 powered pan on the road course. Pinks shred, purples hook up almost as good on the front.
The customworks guy is not an internet type. He has traveled to both the carpet and asphalt oval nats, though, (Nathan, D). He picks up tips there. Some of these I posted on my previous Pantoura thread. I do try them all. I do trust the clock though.
Here is a top view of my car. Front tires wear very evenly compared to a normal pan. It has independent front. The three-link rear is very different from a standard pan. It is home-made by me.
I hang out at Hobbytalk. I post there only once in a while.
john
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-11-2008 at 08:46 PM.
09-10-2008, 07:35 PM
#277
Quick question...does anyone know the part # for the replacement shock bottom (eyelet) for the GEN X10. In the manual it says 5321...but that isn't really the part # as that eyelet fits the same 5.5mm ball the top of the shock does. The one in the kit is smaller in diameter.
09-10-2008, 07:46 PM
#278
Originally Posted by davepull
ahhhhhh EA but lets not confuse new people to the Hobby Jaco is a great tire but they have a wide range of hardesses for there tires you can buy 3 sets of jaco double pinks and they will durometer all over the place so my guess would be that the tire G honey was running was closer (in hardness) to a purple.
EA
09-10-2008, 07:52 PM
#279
CRC gen X
46 Plastic Ball Cup 1231 Steering Plastic Ballcups (8)
Core
this should be the part number for the center shock. Any 4-40 size link like a Losi truck long ball cup should work. You might need to trim it.
Note that I have tried purple right front and pink left front. Tested them on the clock. It was not faster on my car, very good but not faster. My job is not to make the car suit a common front tire but to minimize the lap times. Now with a little more voltage I may have wear concerns that force the issue.
john
46 Plastic Ball Cup 1231 Steering Plastic Ballcups (8)
Core
this should be the part number for the center shock. Any 4-40 size link like a Losi truck long ball cup should work. You might need to trim it.
Note that I have tried purple right front and pink left front. Tested them on the clock. It was not faster on my car, very good but not faster. My job is not to make the car suit a common front tire but to minimize the lap times. Now with a little more voltage I may have wear concerns that force the issue.
john
09-11-2008, 08:43 AM
#280
edit @Davepull - I think you're missing a critical piece of information.
He's not running a normal pan car. Change the type of suspension and you change the needs of the car. Period.
He's running independent upper/lower A-arm front suspension and free-floating three-link rear suspension (he tried a four-link but it bound up) with a separate panhard bar (so I guess it really is a four-link!
)
This will, of necessity, mean that his tire needs differ from a typical pan car which has essentially an inverted strut front end (undampened kingpin) and a single-pivot semi-dampened rear (either using dampening tubes or not).
With a free-floating rear end, he's going to get more rear grip (by its very nature) than the single-pivot rear (either T-Bar or dampener tube still has a pivot) so he will need to re-balance the car.
With the traditional pan car, we always had to compromise what we did in order to get it to turn correctly and not shed speed. We did that because we are/were using an outdated and not very efficient style of suspension. John has been working diligently and quite hard at creating a very efficient and effective suspension that will fit under GTP style bodies - and then figuring out how to make it work. . .with tires, driving style, etc.
His success shows - his car is showing itself to be superior in many ways.
You might want to read his Pantoura thread where he goes through the entire evolution of the front true dampened dual-A-arm suspension and his rear four-link floating and dampened suspension, as well as how this changed the handling of the car. This thread is really an extension of that one.
He's not running a normal pan car. Change the type of suspension and you change the needs of the car. Period.
He's running independent upper/lower A-arm front suspension and free-floating three-link rear suspension (he tried a four-link but it bound up) with a separate panhard bar (so I guess it really is a four-link!
) This will, of necessity, mean that his tire needs differ from a typical pan car which has essentially an inverted strut front end (undampened kingpin) and a single-pivot semi-dampened rear (either using dampening tubes or not).
With a free-floating rear end, he's going to get more rear grip (by its very nature) than the single-pivot rear (either T-Bar or dampener tube still has a pivot) so he will need to re-balance the car.
With the traditional pan car, we always had to compromise what we did in order to get it to turn correctly and not shed speed. We did that because we are/were using an outdated and not very efficient style of suspension. John has been working diligently and quite hard at creating a very efficient and effective suspension that will fit under GTP style bodies - and then figuring out how to make it work. . .with tires, driving style, etc.
His success shows - his car is showing itself to be superior in many ways.
You might want to read his Pantoura thread where he goes through the entire evolution of the front true dampened dual-A-arm suspension and his rear four-link floating and dampened suspension, as well as how this changed the handling of the car. This thread is really an extension of that one.
Last edited by Boomer; 09-12-2008 at 10:30 AM.
09-11-2008, 08:56 AM
#281
Just as a quick followup - the Custom Works uses a modified AE front end, as most of our cars do, and a tri-shock single-pivot rear suspension.
You can see John's suspension in this thread: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...tricks-18.html
and he really starts working on the rear suspension around post 700 and on.
Get a handle on what he's doing and how that affects the car before you go all tizzy!
You'd also know that he's a: at the top of his class in a very competitive area and b: that he tests almost compulsively!
You can see John's suspension in this thread: http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...tricks-18.html
and he really starts working on the rear suspension around post 700 and on.
Get a handle on what he's doing and how that affects the car before you go all tizzy!
You'd also know that he's a: at the top of his class in a very competitive area and b: that he tests almost compulsively!
09-11-2008, 07:37 PM
#282
Boomer Thanks.
13.5 LiPo
I got another practice in before Hurricane Ike tears us all up. I used the radio timer again to gauge performance. Based on the last test, I thought I could use a softer rear tire. The car is accelerating more like mod pan now. Forward traction seems more neccesary. I went to XXpinks on the front to reduce wear and Pinks on the rear. I practiced different lines as it is a new ballgame with the LiPo. With the wide line that Jeff has always wanted me to run I cut another tenth off my average practice lap. .3 s better than four cell now. This was the first time the very wide line was the clear winner with my car. The faster speeds on the straights could now compensate for the extra run line distance, while the big turning arc kept up the corner speed.
I put the XXPink/Purple rears back on and lost that .1s advantage, even with the wide run line. I will try rears in between. Pro-ten Holland likes Magentas on the back of his mod pan these days. I always like the pinks. Eventually I will try Dave Pull's recently posted combination on the clock. I have run purple right front and pink left front before, but the pink left rear intrigues me as it might cut down on corner exit hooking by applying more torque steer to the right from that soft left rear tire. This will probably work best on the battle axe.
Motor temps and speed control temps were good with about 7 minute runs.
John
13.5 LiPo
I got another practice in before Hurricane Ike tears us all up. I used the radio timer again to gauge performance. Based on the last test, I thought I could use a softer rear tire. The car is accelerating more like mod pan now. Forward traction seems more neccesary. I went to XXpinks on the front to reduce wear and Pinks on the rear. I practiced different lines as it is a new ballgame with the LiPo. With the wide line that Jeff has always wanted me to run I cut another tenth off my average practice lap. .3 s better than four cell now. This was the first time the very wide line was the clear winner with my car. The faster speeds on the straights could now compensate for the extra run line distance, while the big turning arc kept up the corner speed.
I put the XXPink/Purple rears back on and lost that .1s advantage, even with the wide run line. I will try rears in between. Pro-ten Holland likes Magentas on the back of his mod pan these days. I always like the pinks. Eventually I will try Dave Pull's recently posted combination on the clock. I have run purple right front and pink left front before, but the pink left rear intrigues me as it might cut down on corner exit hooking by applying more torque steer to the right from that soft left rear tire. This will probably work best on the battle axe.
Motor temps and speed control temps were good with about 7 minute runs.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-12-2008 at 10:45 AM.
09-11-2008, 08:12 PM
#283
interesting car john it is hard to see but what kind of dampening does the rear have?
09-11-2008, 08:38 PM
#284
Dave- Here is a view of the back. The car has 4 RC18T shocks, two in front two in back. I would actually like someone to make a few of these. It sure works great on a variety tracks and types of racing. The shocks are slightly staggered on purpose to prevent any pod hop on acceleration.
john
john
