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Old 06-16-2009, 01:36 PM   #1291
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Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
Just a quick list of the set up I used on Saturday at OCRC.

Jaco Prism Pink front with JtG 1/2 front 43 mm
.018" springs with 30k on kingpin
5 Dgr. re-active
+1.80 caster
3mm spacer between arm and blkhd
.015" spacer on axle
4.4mm ride ht.

Center shk
AE 25 wt. with Gold spring
Shk mnt pos 2
lipo mounted forward

Jaco Prism Yellow rear JtG full Rear 45.5mm
Gold side springs w AE 35 wt side shock
10R5 rear pod rear width 172mm
4.8mm ride ht.
Protoform Speed 12 lwt
Lrp SPX w LRP 13.5t 49/78

If I forgot anything just ask and I will fill in the blanks.
The only 2 changes from my "normal" set up is the .018" front springs and the gold spring and oil in the center shock. Both of those were more to try and help the ride through the bumps.
Do you need a flight pack to get the SPX to shift gears?
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:26 PM   #1292
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Do you need a flight pack to get the SPX to shift gears?
Yes I was using 2 nimh cells to "boost" the voltage to the BEC. Same as if I ran a full external Rx pack.

The SPX will run with out a booster or Rx pack but you will not get full performance from the SC. LRP has a low voltage detection in the SC that will cut off throttle inputs if it decides that the RX is not getting enough voltage. I do not recommend running with out using a booster or Rx pack.
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:38 PM   #1293
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Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
I would see if I could run a harder front tire and sauce the whole thing and see if you still got the glaze. I suspect if you sauced the whole tire you run currently you'd get some serious over steer.

We had the exact same problem with the to make it work. glazing on the portion of the tire we didn't sauce. It went away once we started saucing the whole tire and made the adjustments to our setups. Were in a little different situation though as we are usually looking for more grip as we run on med bite carpet. What compound tires are y'all running in 13.5 12th?

I don't know how well everyone at your track sticks to the jtg rule, but if you've had different compounds in the carpet you might try giving it a good vacuuming and then make sure nothing but JTG is used and see if the glazing goes away. When we realized the traction action we were spraying was causing the glazing we used our trusty rainbow vacuum on the whole carpet. It sucks up pretty much all the groove and then we started over only spraying acetone and paragon when needed. We haven't seen the problem since then.

. .
interesting you suggest a full tire treatment. i tried full and half treatement on the front tires.
with the half tire treatment, i would get a fast 4minutes followed by a slower 4 minutes.
with a full tire treatment i would get a difficult to control 4 minutes followed by a fast 4 minutes with no buiildup.

i started with 2x pink and went up thru lilac, purple and black. it almost seemed that black had more grip than purple but my nerves were getting frazzled with the dartyfrontend. they all seemed to have ample(too much) grip in the beginning.

with a full tire treatment, do you CA the whole sidewall or some other tire trick? it almost seemed like i needed to maybe clean the sauce off a little with a light motor spray treatment?
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:31 PM   #1294
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Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
Yes I was using 2 nimh cells to "boost" the voltage to the BEC. Same as if I ran a full external Rx pack.

The SPX will run with out a booster or Rx pack but you will not get full performance from the SC. LRP has a low voltage detection in the SC that will cut off throttle inputs if it decides that the RX is not getting enough voltage. I do not recommend running with out using a booster or Rx pack.
Heheheh I knew it was something like that . So many people told me it didn't work but I insisted! ty Sean.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:05 PM   #1295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
Just a quick list of the set up I used on Saturday at OCRC.

Jaco Prism Pink front with JtG 1/2 front 43 mm
.018" springs with 30k on kingpin
5 Dgr. re-active
+1.80 caster
3mm spacer between arm and blkhd
.015" spacer on axle
4.4mm ride ht.

Center shk
AE 25 wt. with Gold spring
Shk mnt pos 2
lipo mounted forward

Jaco Prism Yellow rear JtG full Rear 45.5mm
Gold side springs w AE 35 wt side shock
10R5 rear pod rear width 172mm
4.8mm ride ht.
Protoform Speed 12 lwt
Lrp SPX w LRP 13.5t 49/78

If I forgot anything just ask and I will fill in the blanks.
The only 2 changes from my "normal" set up is the .018" front springs and the gold spring and oil in the center shock. Both of those were more to try and help the ride through the bumps.
Sean,
Thanks a ton for keeping up with this thread. I'm on my own out here in "SpeedMerchantLand". I'm glad to see I'm not as crazy as I thought I was running spacers in the front end to lengthen the upper arm. Do you know what profile you are running in the LRP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avs View Post
interesting you suggest a full tire treatment. i tried full and half treatement on the front tires.
with the half tire treatment, i would get a fast 4minutes followed by a slower 4 minutes.
with a full tire treatment i would get a difficult to control 4 minutes followed by a fast 4 minutes with no buiildup.

i started with 2x pink and went up thru lilac, purple and black. it almost seemed that black had more grip than purple but my nerves were getting frazzled with the dartyfrontend. they all seemed to have ample(too much) grip in the beginning.

with a full tire treatment, do you CA the whole sidewall or some other tire trick? it almost seemed like i needed to maybe clean the sauce off a little with a light motor spray treatment?
We've not been CA'ing at all with full sauce, although. as I mentioned we don't ever get high grip conditions. I am by no means an expert at 12th set up, but I'd be more than happy to make some suggestions if you wanna post what you are running. If I had to guess I would suggest saucing the whole front with which ever tire felt the calmest, and then adding one or more of the following to the point the car is drivable for you. I would stay away from trying to reduce grip with motor spray or a similar means; I can't imagine a reliable way to get that method consistent.
A. Softer center spring
B. 2-3 mm of spacers between the upper arm mount and the aluminum mount
C.Reducing dual-rate (I wouldn't go much bigger than a 5 ft circle tho . . .)

Heres some discussion we had a month or two back at our track about the glazing issue. Take some of the info with a grain of salt though; there's a mix of comments from newb's to A-main winners . . .

http://www.mikeshobbyshop.com/phpBB3...php?f=3&t=5063


Actually, after I typed all that, forget it. I would just run what Sean posted. I'm sure he's got a better handle on what works out there than I ever could.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:18 PM   #1296
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Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
I have been testing and testing and testing my 12r5 with lipo on med bite carpet and have found some success. With the lack of info on LiPo set ups I thought I might get the ball rolling by posting what I have found works for me in 17.5 and 13.5 1 cell. I'd love to hear what anyone else has experienced.

FRONT
.20 BMI springs(~.18 AE equivalent) only use 2 shims on top of kingpin.
0 reactive castor
2 mm of spacers between upper arm mount and bulkhead (effectively lengthening the upper arm)
both spacers to the back for static castor ~6-7*?
4 mm RH
9650 Servo w/201 Kimbrough Med SS and balls mounted in lowest holes.
Jaco Dbl pinks 42 mm
.60" of spacers on axle behind wheel
2* camber
0* toe

MIDDLE
4 mm RH
3 mm droop spacer in center shock (1 mm shorter than std)
#2 shock mount (1=bottom, 4=top)
30 wt ae oil in center shock
black AE spring in center shock
std length AE ball cup threaded all the way onto shock. Gives 2-3* of droop
blue side springs all the way up.
20 wt side shock oil

REAR
4 mm RH
Jaco Yellows 44 mm
172 mm axle width
centered BL pod

Parma Speed8HD body
SpeedPassion 13.5 w/84 mm rollout with 26* timing in SpeedPassion esc
4.5' circles
Full paragon F and R
SMC 1 cell LiPo
Spektrum Micro Receiver
Novak Booster

Hopefully I didn't leave anything out.
After reading Sean's post I realized I had left out the shims in the front end from what I posted earlier.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:43 PM   #1297
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Here is what I have been running all year, no Lipo's however. It is by far the best setup I have ever driven but it has ALOT of steering so is not for the weak of heart. All this is on med bite ozite with a 13.5/17.5.


FRONT
.22 BMI springs only use 2 shims on top of kingpin.
10 reactive castor
both spacers to the back for static castor ~6-7*?
4 mm RH
Jaco Dbl pinks 42 mm
2* camber
0* toe

MIDDLE
4 mm RH
#4shock mount (1=bottom, 4=top)
30 wt ae oil in center shock
red AE spring in center shock
blue side springs all the way up.
45 wt side shock oil

REAR
4 mm RH
Jaco Yellows 44 mm
172 mm axle width
centered BL pod


It is a great setup for someone looking for something different, if you try it let me know how it goes.
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:00 PM   #1298
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I am looking to by a 12R5 very soon, but only want to deal with LiPo. I know there is the new 1S with an extra rx pack system out, but that sounds a little much. My buddy using a 21.5 got a 2S 3100mah into his CRC CarpetKnife with a little washer under the shock.

Anyhoo....can you get a 2S into a 12R5? I'm only club racing and just concerned about ease of the LiPo, not ROAR guidlines.

Any help?
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:15 PM   #1299
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Originally Posted by markhat250 View Post
I am looking to by a 12R5 very soon, but only want to deal with LiPo. I know there is the new 1S with an extra rx pack system out, but that sounds a little much. My buddy using a 21.5 got a 2S 3100mah into his CRC CarpetKnife with a little washer under the shock.

Anyhoo....can you get a 2S into a 12R5? I'm only club racing and just concerned about ease of the LiPo, not ROAR guidlines.

Any help?
Dealing with the 1s lipo is not bad at all. And for club racing even there I would highly doubt they will let you run a 2s lipo, the power you would have would be amazing.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:10 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
Just a quick list of the set up I used on Saturday at OCRC.

Jaco Prism Pink front with JtG 1/2 front 43 mm
.018" springs with 30k on kingpin
5 Dgr. re-active
+1.80 caster
3mm spacer between arm and blkhd
.015" spacer on axle
4.4mm ride ht.

Center shk
AE 25 wt. with Gold spring
Shk mnt pos 2
lipo mounted forward

Jaco Prism Yellow rear JtG full Rear 45.5mm
Gold side springs w AE 35 wt side shock
10R5 rear pod rear width 172mm
4.8mm ride ht.
Protoform Speed 12 lwt
Lrp SPX w LRP 13.5t 49/78

If I forgot anything just ask and I will fill in the blanks.
The only 2 changes from my "normal" set up is the .018" front springs and the gold spring and oil in the center shock. Both of those were more to try and help the ride through the bumps.
Sean, Am i reading this right that you spaced out the front wheels 3mm plus .015 each side. Is that in addition to the axle shims? Damn I need to be observant when I look at your car.
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Old 06-17-2009, 12:24 PM   #1301
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Sean,
Thanks a ton for keeping up with this thread. I'm on my own out here in "SpeedMerchantLand".
......

Don't worry bout it. Sean, Blackstock, you, and all the other Associated 'care takers' out there will have a chance to show everyone how it's done at the IIC.

Which 12th manufacturer is gonna win the title...?
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:48 PM   #1302
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Sean, Am i reading this right that you spaced out the front wheels 3mm plus .015 each side. Is that in addition to the axle shims? Damn I need to be observant when I look at your car.
If I am not mistaken, the 3 mm shims are used between the upper arms mount and the aluminum bulkheads. It doesn't space the wheels out, it moves the upper arm pivot point inward. Ala Matsukura . . .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LtlpfXZEZT.../Photo+147.jpg

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Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
......

Don't worry bout it. Sean, Blackstock, you, and all the other Associated 'care takers' out there will have a chance to show everyone how it's done at the IIC.

Which 12th manufacturer is gonna win the title...?
May McSmooth smite you for the blasphemy of mentioning me in the same sentence as SC and MB! If Chicy made a list of guys who shouldn't be running stock, I'd be on it, but only because he thought I should run a Mabuchi, hahaha
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Old 06-18-2009, 01:29 AM   #1303
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1 - Spacers between the upper arm mounts and the bulkhead (like in the picture) reduce camber gain by lengthening the upper arm.

2 - Spacers on the inside of the front axle widen the front track width and also soften the front spring rate a bit by moving the leverage point farther away from the spring.

3 - Spacers between the lower arm and bulkhead widen the front track width but leave the spring rate unchanged.

Sean doesn't say what arm he shimmed, but if I were to guess, I'd say #1. It would take a little bite out of the front-end and smooth it out a touch through the turns on the high grip track. Sean will chime in shortly with the correct answer.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:48 AM   #1304
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Got my first race last night with the r5. What a twitchy, inconsistant mess. Yes first time out and no clue what makes this car tick but I struggled pretty much all night. HP was one issue but mostly the way to touchy oversteer in the first 2 mins and the push the last 4 mins killed me.

My second qual was pretty good handling wise. Smooth but turned everywhere and was consistant the whole 8mins. If it drives like that all the time I would be happy. A couple bobbles by me and down pretty bad on hp put me 3 laps off the pace. Yuk, hate being there.

For the main I went up a few teeth and got close on the hp but by then my front tires were too thin to work so back to the dump truck for the last 4 mins. Finished where I started at 4th.

The setup is still pretty stock. Have to pick up some side springs to play with.
The biggest problem I have right now is how touchy the steering is right around center. I mean nasty. -15% expo didnt help and any more made the steering to notchy. How can I calm it down? Sevo is flat and the tie rods are straight when looking down on the car. Moving the servo back to get a little angle would make it more touchy around center, correct?

DK
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:02 AM   #1305
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1 - Spacers between the upper arm mounts and the bulkhead (like in the picture) reduce camber gain by lengthening the upper arm.

2 - Spacers on the inside of the front axle widen the front track width and also soften the front spring rate a bit by moving the leverage point farther away from the spring.

3 - Spacers between the lower arm and bulkhead widen the front track width but leave the spring rate unchanged.

Sean doesn't say what arm he shimmed, but if I were to guess, I'd say #1. It would take a little bite out of the front-end and smooth it out a touch through the turns on the high grip track. Sean will chime in shortly with the correct answer.
Sorry I didn't specify better in my set up. I used #3 option, and I put 3mm but it is really 3mm total, meaning 1.5mm per arm. I also had 1- .015" shim on the axle behind the bearing. I will post a full set up sheet from what I used at OCRC on the AE site within the next few days.
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