R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-11-2014, 10:51 PM   #22051
Tech Champion
 
monkeyracing's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SnowMexico
Posts: 5,836
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
The most common cause for what you're experiencing is a bad or dirty thrust bearing. The thrust bearing goes bad more often than most people think. Unfortunately there is no good way to check it.

The other cause could be your cone or Belleville washers have become flattened and no longer apply pressure as they did. Check them against some new ones. They need to be replaced from time to time. They are available from McMaster Carr inexpensively.
I've figure out (I think) the thrust bearing is the standard Tamiya 1150. Do you have any specs on the washers? Size is measurable for me, but tension is a little trickier.
__________________
Stab it and steer.
monkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 12:22 AM   #22052
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyracing View Post
I've figure out (I think) the thrust bearing is the standard Tamiya 1150. Do you have any specs on the washers? Size is measurable for me, but tension is a little trickier.
Thrust bearing is Tamiya #53136.

Belleville disc springs are all the same. Just measure them and if you have the correct size you'll have the correct tension. It's not as if you have a lot of different manufacturers making a lot of types. As usual, just go with the standard steel ones which are the cheapest, so those are the most likely ones. They come in 12 packs and are about $3. I've been using them for several years and don't see any difference. Incidentally, belleville disc springs is the proper name so use that in your search on the McMaster Carr website.

While you are there, you might want to peruse their metric hardware. They sell good stuff. I don't use a ride height gauge cause I bought some inexpensive drill rod in various sizes to measure. The stuff I bought came in 36" inch lengths so just cut it up and gave the rest away. Also, check out the metric set screws especially the 3X12 that you use to make up connectors. They have the correct size for pinions also. Unfortunately, they don't have the flanged nylocks for wheels that Tamiya charges a ridiculous amount for.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:19 AM   #22053
Tech Master
 
eR1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,312
Default

Quote:
My lad runs Suzuki Swift shells and I run Fiat 500. We can swap around and I definitely find his shell a bit more stable for some reason.

I have a concours class winning Honda S800 shell and a mini classic shell in SWB form for the indoor season too. Have never driven the Honda but I imagine it has really low centre of gravity compared to the other shells
-I had brought up bodies a few pages ago. Here is what I was getting at, I am racing an old school SWB Mini. It just seems really high compared to some of the other bodies out there. I did some research and it is a solid 20mm - 25mm taller than some of the lower profile bodies. You know that feeling you have when you run your car w/o a body, -just for a quick test lap ...it just feels really low to the ground and planted. That is what I am going for. The Mini body which I've been racing seems high to me. The wheel arches prevent if from allowing you to tuck the wheels under, otherwise I'd slam it to get a lower center of gravity.

The Honda s800 body is about 20mm lower than the Mini and looks like the wheels would tuck under the body if you did want to get it just a tad lower (for lower center of gravity).

Does this make sense? Just wondering if I should switch from the Mini body to the Honda S800 (I can get an S800 for like $25). I am doing good w/ the Mini, but my best is 3rd in the A Mains'. ...the top two guys can whip around the corners a bit faster than I. I am sure it is due to skill, but I notice they both are running lower profile bodies (CRX and JCW). ...thoughts?
eR1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 12:24 PM   #22054
Tech Adept
 
Soupinmycoupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mini Cooper Heaven
Posts: 244
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

I say you send us the link to get an s800 for $25.

I agree about lowering the COG. The mini body has a tendency of getting "turtled" when we hit an island/race dot.

That Blitz jazz looks like a nice body! Looks like enough room to run wider hexes too..
__________________
USE THE SEARCH BUTTON!
Soupinmycoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 12:32 PM   #22055
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eR1c View Post
-I had brought up bodies a few pages ago. Here is what I was getting at, I am racing an old school SWB Mini. It just seems really high compared to some of the other bodies out there. I did some research and it is a solid 20mm - 25mm taller than some of the lower profile bodies. You know that feeling you have when you run your car w/o a body, -just for a quick test lap ...it just feels really low to the ground and planted. That is what I am going for. The Mini body which I've been racing seems high to me. The wheel arches prevent if from allowing you to tuck the wheels under, otherwise I'd slam it to get a lower center of gravity.

The Honda s800 body is about 20mm lower than the Mini and looks like the wheels would tuck under the body if you did want to get it just a tad lower (for lower center of gravity).

Does this make sense? Just wondering if I should switch from the Mini body to the Honda S800 (I can get an S800 for like $25). I am doing good w/ the Mini, but my best is 3rd in the A Mains'. ...the top two guys can whip around the corners a bit faster than I. I am sure it is due to skill, but I notice they both are running lower profile bodies (CRX and JCW). ...thoughts?
The big hassle with the Rover Mini body is that it was designed for the original 0 degree rear hubs. With those hubs, the body has a perfect fit with even clearance around the tires. Once you add hubs with more toe in, the tires rub on the front part of the tire and the cut out. It no longer will fit properly and requires a bit of juggling and never fits like it should.

In your case, the top two guys are running different cars than you are. The JCW Coupe is a LWB. The CRX is a MWB. Corner speed is a function of car set up and yes, driver talent. However, unless there is a vast disparity in talent, the actual corner speed is always more dependent on set up. Without looking at your car and with the minimal information, I'll bet you are running the Tamiya Mini springs, the white or the colored ones, which are in 90% or more instances much too hard.

Another fallacy in Mini ranks is that the flatter the car corners, the better. Not true, cause if the car is flat thru the corner, it's slow. You don't get the proper side to side weight transfer.

As far as bodies go, the height of the body is less important than the balance. The reason the Rover body is so good, is that it's perfectly neutral. The popularity of the JCW Coupe body among some of the LWB devotees is because you get a little more steering with that body. The actual height of the body is less important than it's balance. The CRX is gaining in popularity with the MWB crowd again because I'm told that it has a bit more steering than the Swft. Can't say for sure cause I've never tried one.

Last edited by Granpa; 09-12-2014 at 12:40 PM. Reason: deletion
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 02:13 PM   #22056
Tech Master
 
eR1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,312
Default

Quote:
I say you send us the link to get an s800 for $25.
-sorry, my bad, it's not $25, it's $24.90
http://www.rcmart.com/tamiya-51402-h...y-p-31072.html
(I've ordered plenty of parts from RCMART over the years, it's better to buy several things in one order as the shipping is a flat rate).

Quote:
I agree about lowering the COG. The mini body has a tendency of getting "turtled" when we hit an island/race dot.
YES, and I am sick of it! ...no seriously, I think i've hit the dots maybe 1x per weekend, but when you do its disaster.

Granpa,
Quote:
Another fallacy in Mini ranks is that the flatter the car corners, the better. Not true, cause if the car is flat thru the corner, it's slow. You don't get the proper side to side weight transfer.
This does seem counter-intuitive. I race on-road touring car class and my car is flat, low and solid. I usually get 1st in the A mains.. I can't flip it, it will slide before it flips. I am trying to get this w/ my Mini. -maybe it is an elusive goal, but experience with every other on-road car tells me to keep trying. The Mini body just seems like it lends itself to that "buggy" feel ...I know because when I ran a lap w/ no body at all my car felt like it was on rails. This is why I am targeting the body as my next improvement. I am not satisfied w/ the Mini body. ...i do feel like I am racing w/ a snail shell on my back and it is swaying more than I'd like.

An area that I recognize for improvement in terms of skill for myself is running a better corner. On some corners I am breaking too hard and thus trying to get out of the corner from a crawl. This is hurting me and has most to do w/ my skill. Yet thinking a lower body may give me more confidence to get through a corner w/o having to break so hard for i won't have fear of the high COG rolling me over. Guess I just need to experiment more and practice my cornering a little better, my setup is close, but not 100% how id' like..
eR1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 02:28 PM   #22057
Tech Master
 
eR1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,312
Default

Quote:
I'll bet you are running the Tamiya Mini springs, the white or the colored ones, which are in 90% or more instances much too hard.
Granpa,
This is my setup, -you called it.
I am running white (extra hard) up front and blue in back (hard).
I have tried Blue in front and Red (soft) in back and that worked okay. ...I keep going back and forth ...i guess once I get a top 1 or 2 place i'll know which works best!!
What is your recommendation?
I race on asphalt, the surface is flat, no rough patches or bumps, flat.
The asphalt is perfect, not too porous not too smooth.
eR1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 02:57 PM   #22058
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eR1c View Post
Granpa,
This is my setup, -you called it.
I am running white (extra hard) up front and blue in back (hard).
I have tried Blue in front and Red (soft) in back and that worked okay. ...I keep going back and forth ...i guess once I get a top 1 or 2 place i'll know which works best!!
What is your recommendation?
I race on asphalt, the surface is flat, no rough patches or bumps, flat.
The asphalt is perfect, not too porous not too smooth.
I'm sending you a PM. I posted a Basic set up a few pages back. It was intended as a starting point for newer Mini drivers and included a few tips on how to improve it or meld it to your track and driving style.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 03:07 PM   #22059
Tech Master
 
eR1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,312
Default

Quote:
I'm sending you a PM. I posted a Basic set up a few pages back.
-Thank YOU!

If I had time to get to a track on even a weekly basis then I'd have more time to dial this in. ...as it is now, I can only get out and race 1x a month. ...a new track is opening up in the next few weeks ...once that happens I should be able to get out at least 1x a week or more and really get my cars in tune. Oh, and get more practice.
eR1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 11:46 AM   #22060
Tech Elite
 
niznai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: All over the place
Posts: 2,735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eR1c View Post
-sorry, my bad, it's not $25, it's $24.90
http://www.rcmart.com/tamiya-51402-h...y-p-31072.html
(I've ordered plenty of parts from RCMART over the years, it's better to buy several things in one order as the shipping is a flat rate).


YES, and I am sick of it! ...no seriously, I think i've hit the dots maybe 1x per weekend, but when you do its disaster.

Granpa,

This does seem counter-intuitive. I race on-road touring car class and my car is flat, low and solid. I usually get 1st in the A mains.. I can't flip it, it will slide before it flips. I am trying to get this w/ my Mini. -maybe it is an elusive goal, but experience with every other on-road car tells me to keep trying. The Mini body just seems like it lends itself to that "buggy" feel ...I know because when I ran a lap w/ no body at all my car felt like it was on rails. This is why I am targeting the body as my next improvement. I am not satisfied w/ the Mini body. ...i do feel like I am racing w/ a snail shell on my back and it is swaying more than I'd like.
Nope. It's counterintuitive because you try to use intuition instead of reason.

If your TC is going flat through the corners then it's not going as fast as it could go. Not to mention I think there is some roll, just difficult to tell (measure). But think how much can your TC roll anyway. Not much. At a width of 190mm rolling a couple of degrees would have your chassis dragging on the ground, whereas a mini at 160mm width can roll a couple more without that problem. This is assuming both cars have about 5mm ride height.

Back to a car with no roll, your tires work to the point where sideway grip holds, then it drifts (as you confirm). That means you can not go through the corner any faster. If your car rolled a bit and used some camber gain, your tires would extend their grip to higher speeds, hence you'd be faster. A lot of people make this mistake. The downside is that a suspension that allows some roll might require a different setup that may not match needs in other parts of the track (quick reaction in transitions requires stiff suspension/dense shock oil - roll may need a softer suspension setup). Difficult setup to chase, but worth it.

There are other tradeoffs, but I don't know your track and that is key to the compromises you might have to accept.

Racing minis means much slower speeds and acceleration limited by fixed gearing usually set for maximum speed in a straight line. This means every ounce (figuratively speaking) of grip has to be used to carry as much corner speed as possible hence the set of compromises one has to accept is different from TC. But not counterintuitive.

And yes, I have run ridiculous ride heights for a TC car (about 7mm) on a track where most run 5.5mm because I like my car to roll more and give me a chance to carry more speed through the corners. Lap times didn't show any disadvantage to competitors with "hard" setups going "flat" through the corners. Your mileage might vary.
__________________
Team Greasy Weasel

The best upgrade to any car is some driver skill.
niznai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 02:41 PM   #22061
Tech Champion
 
monkeyracing's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SnowMexico
Posts: 5,836
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

I love Saturday! Brought my 05v2 and my 04. The 05 is REALLY good, but I enjoy driving the 04 - it flows. Also, my new shelf queen mini shell showed up. Awesome! Still needs trimming, but Draggerdude nailed it.

EDIT: And I won! Good day.




Last edited by monkeyracing; 09-13-2014 at 06:00 PM.
monkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 12:37 PM   #22062
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dorset,UK
Posts: 128
Default

How come you don't have the bars that link the front and rear chassis together fitted? I don't on my M05 v1 but have a carbon strengthener instead but it does not fit the v2 as the servo saver hits it.
__________________
Zen RSGT, Trinity, Hobbywing, LRP.
M05 S-Spec, LRP, Intellect.
M05 v2 Tekin, Orion, Savox.
B44 Mamba Max, Trakpower.
B44.2 Avid chassis, Speed Passion, Gens Ace.
BILKO1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 02:13 PM   #22063
Tech Champion
 
monkeyracing's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SnowMexico
Posts: 5,836
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

I like the extra bit of flex it provides. It's a little weird, considering I'm running very stiff springs and a sway bar back there, but wanting it to move around as an assembly.
__________________
Stab it and steer.
monkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 02:31 PM   #22064
Tech Master
 
eR1c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,312
Default

Quote:
Nope. It's counterintuitive because you try to use intuition instead of reason.
-Niznai,
Thanks, I read your post. Yes, my TC does roll a bit, i've seen it from photos. I guess, that the roll just seems so minimal that it feels like it is running on rails and flat right through the corners. Believe me, I can whip it through corners especially once the tires are warm. There is definitely roll, it is just small.
(sorry, my original post made it sound like there was no roll, ...it's just comparatively speaking).

My Mini does have some roll, now that I've adjusted. I am going to embrace it's roll/grip, rather than fight it.
After initially building my Mini it rolled like a stagecoach buggy. I removed the "friction dampers", lowered the ride height and got rid of much of that roll. BUT, it didn't stop there, I kept trying to get it to match my TC.

----
I am working on getting the weight down on my Mini a tad more and have re-adjusted my setup to allow some roll.
Going to test it out. My next race is in 2 weeks. Will let you guys know how it does.

----
As for the CRX body, I am going to pass on that and stick w/ my Mini for now. If anyone is interested I did find some Mini bodies on eBay for $34 shipped. Or RCMart for $25, but high shipping (only makes sense if you place a larger order).
eR1c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 03:17 PM   #22065
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eR1c View Post
-Niznai,

I am working on getting the weight down on my Mini a tad more and have re-adjusted my setup to allow some roll.
Going to test it out. My next race is in 2 weeks. Will let you guys know how it does.
Here again is another thing that may not make sense, but reducing weight is not productive. Most Minis are over powered to begin with and making a Mini light can lead to handling problems. Taking into account all factors, Minis should come in at 1300gms plus with battery and body. Lighter than that, they become a handful to drive and difficult to set up.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tamiya Mini Cooper M-03L Hop-ups mini71 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 4 05-04-2016 11:07 AM
Tamiya Mini Cooper mach51 R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 10 09-02-2011 12:08 AM
FS:TAMIYA Mini Cooper, TA 04S rthmotorsports R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 4 10-20-2007 09:37 PM
Tamiya 415 MSX and M03 Mini Cooper F/S Racer X79 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 12-22-2006 07:38 AM
Tamiya M01,02,03, or 04 Mini Cooper ccugolf.com R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 2 12-05-2004 08:55 PM


Tags
m03, m03r ules, m05, mini, tamiya


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:48 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0