ROAR B/L motor Rules debate thread
01-03-2008, 07:12 PM
#301
1/12th scale hasn't used 7.2 volts in ages. With the cells out now, with the voltage numbers and the low IR, I can't see the Josh Cyruls or Mike Blackstock, Dumas' of the world keeping them on the carpets.
They would be like the indoor Heli's
Steve
They would be like the indoor Heli's
Steve
01-03-2008, 07:14 PM
#302
The colored "ring" on the Novaks is the plastic ring on the endbell. It's not removable. Also, you can check the inductance of a BL motor as a check for wind.
I've run a 3.7vLiPo in 12th. Used a standard Novak 4 cell speedo and it didn't have any problems. All you need for "new" equipment is a receiver pack. They're really not all that expensive. Personally I would prefer 2 cell voltage in mod 12th
I've run a 3.7vLiPo in 12th. Used a standard Novak 4 cell speedo and it didn't have any problems. All you need for "new" equipment is a receiver pack. They're really not all that expensive. Personally I would prefer 2 cell voltage in mod 12th
01-03-2008, 07:16 PM
#303
01-03-2008, 07:17 PM
#304
Tech Regular
The 7.4v LiPo that I used was slower than 4 cell. It had a lot less capacity so it would dump if you drove it hard. It might even dump a 13.5 in 8 minutes.
Again, I think LiPo for 12th is a ways off.
Again, I think LiPo for 12th is a ways off.
01-03-2008, 07:25 PM
#305
This may not be the proper time to chime in with this, but I have been working on a 12th scale project that uses Mamba motors, esc, a 1550mah 2C lipo and a $19 9 gram servo. Just to see if it would work. I chose an 8kv motor, which was a mistake. It's the fastest thing I have ever driven. Here's the kicker, it only weigh's 14.5 ounces! I plan to pick up a 4.6kv motor and retest. When I say this car is faster then todays mod cars, trust me, it is. The wear and tear on this car is far less then our 30 ounce equivelants. I don't have all my testing done, so there is no reason to get too excited yet. But if we are going to wipe the slate clean and draft up new rules for the 12th scale guys, this is really should be considered. I know there are going to be many that are going to say: "I can't use any of my old equipment". To a degree, that will be true. But if we are going to look at the health of a class, would lower cost with equal speed not be worth talking about? You will be able to put this car on the track for 2/3's the cost of todays car, plus you will not need all the peripheral additional equipment.
I think we need to back of on the 12th scale worries as I doubt that much in the rules will change for 2008.
Steve
01-03-2008, 07:43 PM
#307
Then I was racing with his double almost 20 years ago. And, I'm pretty sure, YOURS. Raceway in Edmonds ca. 1988-90, Dave and Georgia Steen...possibly the nicest people in RC. Ah...those were the days. 1200 SC's, Trinity "mod" motors with those eensy-weensy little brushes and even smaller springs. Getting lapped (and lapped, and lapped) by Chris White...
01-03-2008, 07:56 PM
#308
Guys, with 7.4v in 12th scale the motor would be something far slower to compensate. Steve could figure out roughly just how many winds they really could go with the current wire size, and if possible/needed, something thinner. Can also change rotor magnet length. There are numerous somewhat simple ways to offset the voltage increase. capacity can be had with different configurations. magically orion has 3 batteries nearly identical size but 1600mah in difference. 3200 - 4800. Either they're not using the space or the batteries are some how magically getting better. polymer can be made into literally any shape. Don't be surprised if somebody lays out a chassis with a battery going as far forward as the servo while mounting the receiver and speed control on top of it. Could really shorten those motor wires.
stuff like this should be standard reading for anyone involved in this conversation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer
stuff like this should be standard reading for anyone involved in this conversation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer
01-03-2008, 08:30 PM
#309
Then I was racing with his double almost 20 years ago. And, I'm pretty sure, YOURS. Raceway in Edmonds ca. 1988-90, Dave and Georgia Steen...possibly the nicest people in RC. Ah...those were the days. 1200 SC's, Trinity "mod" motors with those eensy-weensy little brushes and even smaller springs. Getting lapped (and lapped, and lapped) by Chris White...
Chris White is the first person I met, when we moved back to Wash. The best of times.
Steve
01-03-2008, 08:36 PM
#310
This may not be the proper time to chime in with this, but I have been working on a 12th scale project that uses Mamba motors, esc, a 1550mah 2C lipo and a $19 9 gram servo. Just to see if it would work. I chose an 8kv motor, which was a mistake. It's the fastest thing I have ever driven. Here's the kicker, it only weigh's 14.5 ounces! I plan to pick up a 4.6kv motor and retest. When I say this car is faster then todays mod cars, trust me, it is. The wear and tear on this car is far less then our 30 ounce equivelants. I don't have all my testing done, so there is no reason to get too excited yet. But if we are going to wipe the slate clean and draft up new rules for the 12th scale guys, this is really should be considered. I know there are going to be many that are going to say: "I can't use any of my old equipment". To a degree, that will be true. But if we are going to look at the health of a class, would lower cost with equal speed not be worth talking about? You will be able to put this car on the track for 2/3's the cost of todays car, plus you will not need all the peripheral additional equipment.
01-03-2008, 08:38 PM
#311
having being one of the few that had the opportunity to see brians stupid fast 1/12 scale, all i can say is what the..... it is doable, only need to install a tamper proof voltage regulator. actually a 7.4 volt lipo with a 13.5 brushless might be driveable.
01-03-2008, 08:55 PM
#313
[QUOTE=TVMRocket69;4036035]IMO. U need to keep 27t BR motors in competition. Just findout which BL is close that way newbies can have a choice and your not forcing veterans to change or quit.[/QUOTE
I can't help but think the majority of racing gripes I've heard through the years are based on 27t BR motors. His is faster, mines a dog, what brushes are those? etc...etc... Nobody complains more frequently or loudly than the stock racers that aren't "in the hunt".
That's my personal observation. Doesn't make it right or wrong.
Also, anybody that might feel they were forced out, or had to quit over something with a value of say $75, just how committed to the hobby are they? Especially if the item was designed to bring equality to that persons race program. ALSO, in the case of a motor, there is no reason a racer couldn't sell the old equipment that is not useful for their race class, and very likely be into the new equipment for free.
Brushless may or may not be the answer, but it's likely to lead us to the next thing that is. Just like Solar power and full size electric cars, and computer processors. Anybody that's ever paid over $2500 for a one gigabyte hard drive knows what it's like to pay to improve the items they love, or to improve the technology for their hobby and general interests.
I paid $1500 for my first in home CD player... We were the first company in the state of Montana to have a 2 gig drive for a Mac Quadra. Don't even ask me what we paid for that. My phone now has more memory, and on a card the size of my fingernail.
I'm not on a crazy tangent. Just trying to point out that we are in an interesting spot now with RC. Technology has got us to a point where 99% of us have WAY TO MUCH POWER, and we can actually electric race vehicles at good race speeds for up to 20 MINUTES!
The question is, where do we go with it? Races are to short for one thing. That makes it a poor value if you compare it to things like owning and riding a four wheeler, or dirt bike, etc.
And making things cheaper is not the right answer. If it was, paper airplane competitions would attract massive crowds. What's it cost to fold up a paper airplane? How much is a good dirtbike, about $6 grand.
We don't need a stock equivalent motor. We need a BL motor that is SUBSTANTIALLY slower than stock. Stock is NOT A CLASS, it's a motor. So we need a motor that works for people that don't want to go as fast, and for people to learn with.
The other thing those people need is track time. You don't develop a lot of skill with 15 minutes of practice a week... Nor is it a good "value".
Not sure I did anything here but ramble... but there it is anyway.
I can't help but think the majority of racing gripes I've heard through the years are based on 27t BR motors. His is faster, mines a dog, what brushes are those? etc...etc... Nobody complains more frequently or loudly than the stock racers that aren't "in the hunt".
That's my personal observation. Doesn't make it right or wrong.
Also, anybody that might feel they were forced out, or had to quit over something with a value of say $75, just how committed to the hobby are they? Especially if the item was designed to bring equality to that persons race program. ALSO, in the case of a motor, there is no reason a racer couldn't sell the old equipment that is not useful for their race class, and very likely be into the new equipment for free.
Brushless may or may not be the answer, but it's likely to lead us to the next thing that is. Just like Solar power and full size electric cars, and computer processors. Anybody that's ever paid over $2500 for a one gigabyte hard drive knows what it's like to pay to improve the items they love, or to improve the technology for their hobby and general interests.
I paid $1500 for my first in home CD player... We were the first company in the state of Montana to have a 2 gig drive for a Mac Quadra. Don't even ask me what we paid for that. My phone now has more memory, and on a card the size of my fingernail.
I'm not on a crazy tangent. Just trying to point out that we are in an interesting spot now with RC. Technology has got us to a point where 99% of us have WAY TO MUCH POWER, and we can actually electric race vehicles at good race speeds for up to 20 MINUTES!
The question is, where do we go with it? Races are to short for one thing. That makes it a poor value if you compare it to things like owning and riding a four wheeler, or dirt bike, etc.
And making things cheaper is not the right answer. If it was, paper airplane competitions would attract massive crowds. What's it cost to fold up a paper airplane? How much is a good dirtbike, about $6 grand.
We don't need a stock equivalent motor. We need a BL motor that is SUBSTANTIALLY slower than stock. Stock is NOT A CLASS, it's a motor. So we need a motor that works for people that don't want to go as fast, and for people to learn with.
The other thing those people need is track time. You don't develop a lot of skill with 15 minutes of practice a week... Nor is it a good "value".
Not sure I did anything here but ramble... but there it is anyway.