12LikesNew Schumacher KF2
07-29-2016, 08:27 AM - Wikipost
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08-09-2015, 09:56 PM
#452
I got to the track tonight for a couple hours to try some more setup ideas with the MM conversion. Track conditions were about medium on the grip level as there was maybe a little more moisture than last time. A low pin was still the tire of choice (Electrons).
I was thinking a little more about how the car was so loose going into the corner and trying to figure out what to do. The problem in this case is that there simply isn't enough weight/force on the outside rear tire anymore because there is too much being transferred to the front, not leaving enough on in the rear to keep the car from spinning out. I know the tires are decent so I couldn't do much more there for adding grip. The only other option is to introduce some more roll in the rear to get the weight to the outside with the lateral force to make up for what you are losing longitudinally to the front. I am already running the softest springs (red) and oil in the rear that I think I can get away with given the size of the jumps on the current layout. And I am already running some extra weight on the back corners of the chassis to perhaps add some roll but that still was not enough. So what's left? Roll center....
This car (with the MM conversion) needs a rear roll center adjustment. I took two mm out from underneath the ball studs in the rear and that took away all the loose off-power problems. The car is apparently very sensitive to roll center adjustments because I was surprised by how much difference this change made. In fact it made so much difference that now the car was loose coming out of the corner instead of going in and it was pushing some. The reason being that now there was too much weight on the outside tire as the car was leaning more so when I hit the gas it was wanting to spin out. I went back up to 2mm (net -1mm) from the original 3mm and then it was really close. At 2mm it was back to being slightly loose on corner entry so I dug out a 0.5mm shim and went to 1.5mm under the ball stud and then it was just right.
The whole time I was experimenting with rear roll center I also made a few other changes. First I went to the black spring in front with the idea of further limiting the forward weight transfer. I also went to -2 degrees of camber in the rear in an effort to get a little more grip from the outside rear tire during corner exit to prevent spin-outs when getting back on the throttle. I knew this would decrease forward traction a little so at the end I went back to 2 degrees of anti-squat from 0 to try to get that back. And finally I took out the 14g on either side of the chassis and settled with a 35g strip centered underneath and between the tranny housings as far back as it would go.
And the car feels pretty darned good now! The rear is planted and there is still plenty of steering. It is definitely the best it ever has been so far.
I know JP asked about the rear arms being reversed. I am running them in the regular position now. I was going to reverse them if I had no other choice because I just don't like how much angle the change adds to the driveshaft, even with CVAs.
I have attached the setup I used today for you guys. If you try it remember to re-set your rear camber after you make the change with the ball stud spacers. I would start with 2mm instead of 1mm and only go to 1mm if you still have problems with being loose on entry. And depending on your track conditions maybe you will end up at 1.5mm like I did.
If any of you try this setup please let me know how it goes!
I was thinking a little more about how the car was so loose going into the corner and trying to figure out what to do. The problem in this case is that there simply isn't enough weight/force on the outside rear tire anymore because there is too much being transferred to the front, not leaving enough on in the rear to keep the car from spinning out. I know the tires are decent so I couldn't do much more there for adding grip. The only other option is to introduce some more roll in the rear to get the weight to the outside with the lateral force to make up for what you are losing longitudinally to the front. I am already running the softest springs (red) and oil in the rear that I think I can get away with given the size of the jumps on the current layout. And I am already running some extra weight on the back corners of the chassis to perhaps add some roll but that still was not enough. So what's left? Roll center....
This car (with the MM conversion) needs a rear roll center adjustment. I took two mm out from underneath the ball studs in the rear and that took away all the loose off-power problems. The car is apparently very sensitive to roll center adjustments because I was surprised by how much difference this change made. In fact it made so much difference that now the car was loose coming out of the corner instead of going in and it was pushing some. The reason being that now there was too much weight on the outside tire as the car was leaning more so when I hit the gas it was wanting to spin out. I went back up to 2mm (net -1mm) from the original 3mm and then it was really close. At 2mm it was back to being slightly loose on corner entry so I dug out a 0.5mm shim and went to 1.5mm under the ball stud and then it was just right.
The whole time I was experimenting with rear roll center I also made a few other changes. First I went to the black spring in front with the idea of further limiting the forward weight transfer. I also went to -2 degrees of camber in the rear in an effort to get a little more grip from the outside rear tire during corner exit to prevent spin-outs when getting back on the throttle. I knew this would decrease forward traction a little so at the end I went back to 2 degrees of anti-squat from 0 to try to get that back. And finally I took out the 14g on either side of the chassis and settled with a 35g strip centered underneath and between the tranny housings as far back as it would go.
And the car feels pretty darned good now! The rear is planted and there is still plenty of steering. It is definitely the best it ever has been so far.
I know JP asked about the rear arms being reversed. I am running them in the regular position now. I was going to reverse them if I had no other choice because I just don't like how much angle the change adds to the driveshaft, even with CVAs.
I have attached the setup I used today for you guys. If you try it remember to re-set your rear camber after you make the change with the ball stud spacers. I would start with 2mm instead of 1mm and only go to 1mm if you still have problems with being loose on entry. And depending on your track conditions maybe you will end up at 1.5mm like I did.
If any of you try this setup please let me know how it goes!
08-10-2015, 08:06 AM
#453
KF2 MM
Tested my KF2 MM all weekend, Friday after work I stopped by my local track Cruzin with RC’s. It is a hard pack, dry dirt / clay mix that is bumpy and dusty some spot have mega grip and others are somewhat slick depending on the watering. The KF2 MM felt much easier to drive, I came back Saturday to race and put some more time on the car make some changes like lighter shock oil, moved the rear back, and 2.0 rear springs verse the 1.8 I was using. It was a light turn out and no one was running mod 2wd, so I ran my KF2MM in 4wd got the TQ and finished second no one realized I was using my 2wd until afterward when they wanted to see what tires I were running on my 4wd LOL. Sunday I went it RCHR for round three of the point series between Cruzin and RCHR We ran the outdoor dirt track witch started out packed and hard, and then blew out and was half loose, and half mid traction. Ran my KF2mm in stock. I was able to qualified 2nd and take the win. I also tested the car on RCHR’s indoor high bite dirt clay track Sunday, the car has never felt this good for me very easy to drive fast, very predictable, and I think I have more room in the cars setup now in the MM configuration. It will not replace my KR for loose tracks, but is an amazing MM car now. It was money well spent.
08-10-2015, 06:15 PM
#455
I got to the track tonight for a couple hours to try some more setup ideas with the MM conversion. Track conditions were about medium on the grip level as there was maybe a little more moisture than last time. A low pin was still the tire of choice (Electrons).
I was thinking a little more about how the car was so loose going into the corner and trying to figure out what to do. The problem in this case is that there simply isn't enough weight/force on the outside rear tire anymore because there is too much being transferred to the front, not leaving enough on in the rear to keep the car from spinning out. I know the tires are decent so I couldn't do much more there for adding grip. The only other option is to introduce some more roll in the rear to get the weight to the outside with the lateral force to make up for what you are losing longitudinally to the front. I am already running the softest springs (red) and oil in the rear that I think I can get away with given the size of the jumps on the current layout. And I am already running some extra weight on the back corners of the chassis to perhaps add some roll but that still was not enough. So what's left? Roll center....
This car (with the MM conversion) needs a rear roll center adjustment. I took two mm out from underneath the ball studs in the rear and that took away all the loose off-power problems. The car is apparently very sensitive to roll center adjustments because I was surprised by how much difference this change made. In fact it made so much difference that now the car was loose coming out of the corner instead of going in and it was pushing some. The reason being that now there was too much weight on the outside tire as the car was leaning more so when I hit the gas it was wanting to spin out. I went back up to 2mm (net -1mm) from the original 3mm and then it was really close. At 2mm it was back to being slightly loose on corner entry so I dug out a 0.5mm shim and went to 1.5mm under the ball stud and then it was just right.
The whole time I was experimenting with rear roll center I also made a few other changes. First I went to the black spring in front with the idea of further limiting the forward weight transfer. I also went to -2 degrees of camber in the rear in an effort to get a little more grip from the outside rear tire during corner exit to prevent spin-outs when getting back on the throttle. I knew this would decrease forward traction a little so at the end I went back to 2 degrees of anti-squat from 0 to try to get that back. And finally I took out the 14g on either side of the chassis and settled with a 35g strip centered underneath and between the tranny housings as far back as it would go.
And the car feels pretty darned good now! The rear is planted and there is still plenty of steering. It is definitely the best it ever has been so far.
I know JP asked about the rear arms being reversed. I am running them in the regular position now. I was going to reverse them if I had no other choice because I just don't like how much angle the change adds to the driveshaft, even with CVAs.
I have attached the setup I used today for you guys. If you try it remember to re-set your rear camber after you make the change with the ball stud spacers. I would start with 2mm instead of 1mm and only go to 1mm if you still have problems with being loose on entry. And depending on your track conditions maybe you will end up at 1.5mm like I did.
If any of you try this setup please let me know how it goes!
I was thinking a little more about how the car was so loose going into the corner and trying to figure out what to do. The problem in this case is that there simply isn't enough weight/force on the outside rear tire anymore because there is too much being transferred to the front, not leaving enough on in the rear to keep the car from spinning out. I know the tires are decent so I couldn't do much more there for adding grip. The only other option is to introduce some more roll in the rear to get the weight to the outside with the lateral force to make up for what you are losing longitudinally to the front. I am already running the softest springs (red) and oil in the rear that I think I can get away with given the size of the jumps on the current layout. And I am already running some extra weight on the back corners of the chassis to perhaps add some roll but that still was not enough. So what's left? Roll center....
This car (with the MM conversion) needs a rear roll center adjustment. I took two mm out from underneath the ball studs in the rear and that took away all the loose off-power problems. The car is apparently very sensitive to roll center adjustments because I was surprised by how much difference this change made. In fact it made so much difference that now the car was loose coming out of the corner instead of going in and it was pushing some. The reason being that now there was too much weight on the outside tire as the car was leaning more so when I hit the gas it was wanting to spin out. I went back up to 2mm (net -1mm) from the original 3mm and then it was really close. At 2mm it was back to being slightly loose on corner entry so I dug out a 0.5mm shim and went to 1.5mm under the ball stud and then it was just right.
The whole time I was experimenting with rear roll center I also made a few other changes. First I went to the black spring in front with the idea of further limiting the forward weight transfer. I also went to -2 degrees of camber in the rear in an effort to get a little more grip from the outside rear tire during corner exit to prevent spin-outs when getting back on the throttle. I knew this would decrease forward traction a little so at the end I went back to 2 degrees of anti-squat from 0 to try to get that back. And finally I took out the 14g on either side of the chassis and settled with a 35g strip centered underneath and between the tranny housings as far back as it would go.
And the car feels pretty darned good now! The rear is planted and there is still plenty of steering. It is definitely the best it ever has been so far.
I know JP asked about the rear arms being reversed. I am running them in the regular position now. I was going to reverse them if I had no other choice because I just don't like how much angle the change adds to the driveshaft, even with CVAs.
I have attached the setup I used today for you guys. If you try it remember to re-set your rear camber after you make the change with the ball stud spacers. I would start with 2mm instead of 1mm and only go to 1mm if you still have problems with being loose on entry. And depending on your track conditions maybe you will end up at 1.5mm like I did.
If any of you try this setup please let me know how it goes!
I preferrred the CVAs as the CVDs binding effect tends to make things alot worse in very loose conditions.
It is more forgiving at the expense of some forward traction.
08-10-2015, 06:27 PM
#456
08-10-2015, 07:49 PM
#457
Tech Regular
08-10-2015, 08:01 PM
#458
Tech Regular
So, I am in the process of installing the mm conversion and looking for a bit of advice on my electronics install. I am running a Viper VTX10 ESCand it actually fits on the right side behind the motor. By reading the posts it looks like folks are finding some success with the esc in front of the battery, but getting the esc in the back should lend to more weight distribution to the rear.
I haven't mounted it yet, but looking for some advise/thoughts.
I haven't mounted it yet, but looking for some advise/thoughts.
08-10-2015, 08:04 PM
#459
But I think I'll try the kit shafts again like you are saying and see how they feel. Thanks.
Did you run the car with or close to the setup I posted?
08-10-2015, 08:27 PM
#460
Weird, seems like my kf2 kit is missing the big orings to seal the diff and the cross pins for the spider gears. Anyone else have this issue? I really havent seen any complaints on any of the schumacher threads of people missings parts. I just ordered a diff rebuild kit from discount but kind of sucks not having those pieces. I went through the kit several times to make sure they really werent in there.
08-10-2015, 11:34 PM
#462
I went to the KR shafts for a couple reasons. The reversed arms plus running the inside mounting hole on the rear arms was causing problems with the driveshaft popping out unless I used limiters. And of course I was looking to get some of the forward bite that was missing.
But I think I'll try the kit shafts again like you are saying and see how they feel. Thanks.
Did you run the car with or close to the setup I posted?
But I think I'll try the kit shafts again like you are saying and see how they feel. Thanks.
Did you run the car with or close to the setup I posted?
I had little track time yesterday due to rain. In the rutted and very dusty areas, the car was doing doughnuts with the slightest turn on acceleration.
A change back to the old driveshafts calms everything down.
08-11-2015, 06:50 AM
#463
Tech Regular
Missing parts
Weird, seems like my kf2 kit is missing the big orings to seal the diff and the cross pins for the spider gears. Anyone else have this issue? I really havent seen any complaints on any of the schumacher threads of people missings parts. I just ordered a diff rebuild kit from discount but kind of sucks not having those pieces. I went through the kit several times to make sure they really werent in there.
08-11-2015, 07:59 AM
#464
08-11-2015, 08:22 AM
#465
I also was missing parts in my kit! However, from what I was told by Phil at dRC that the first shipments of KF2's where missing some parts. Not sure who you ordered from but I would just call and they should make things right. If you got from dRC they will make it right! Excellent support hands down.😀
..p