Nipple

iTrader: (1)

It's because in Japan Akira Ema finished 3rd in All Japan Championship, and Atsushi Hara won 2 Roar Nationals. So that already made HPI's 1/10 GP (R40) popular in states and Japan (The world's 2 biggest RC market). And now in Thailand, R40 is very popular too as Surikarn is driving it.

From what I know, Japanese is not interested with which car did well in the World Championship, They are more interest with All Japan Championship. And same thing in States, they are more interested with ROAR Nationals.

Well for me, when I'm buying a new car kit, the 2 most important factors are 1. Kaki
2. Part Availability

No point the spares are super cheap, but no-stock. And you end up ordering the parts from overseas, or shelf your car.

Just my 2 cents.

golem

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. Kaki very important otherwise you'll lose interest in the hobby very quickly. Unless you're a hardcore racer. Even then, you need a pitman for GP cars.

As a side note. Adding to that, Kyosho has a unique issue for both suppliers and consumers. Because the models change so quickly, it becomes costly for suppliers to stock a full parts compliment for all models. Especially, aging or discontinued models. For that reason alone, feedback from hobby stores, have indicated that that is one main reason they don't carry Kyosho cars (if they don't already). Usually, only big budget outfits carry Kyosho's.

If smaller outfits carry Kyosho usually the parts compliment is incomplete and only the often sought after parts are stocked. Even then, usually for the latest models.

My 4 cents.

golem

iTrader: (1)

You've sparked my curiousity and as a suggestion maybe you'd want to do want I did recently to learn more about the cars. I downloaded their respective manuals off the manufacturer's web site to learn more about their layout.

Here's my 2 cents on a R40 and 710 comparison from a grease monkey's point of view:

I have to say, looking at the R40 it seems pretty neat and simple. Added to that it appears to have a lower CG out of the box than most others. For the 710 you'll need to get the newer option chassis that is milled 2mm lower for the mounted components. And the R40 comes with F/R diff out of the box (!). 1-way is optional hop-up for the R40. Doesn't appear to have a front solid option although it does have a rear solid option.

Note: although, the 710 setup manual states the availability of a rear solid option for the 710; it doesn't exist in reality. Ardent racers have commissioned ppl to CNC rear solids but from experience rear solids are impractical for 1/10 cars for obvious reasons: (1) higher than usual rear tyre wear reduces optimum performance run time in races (1/10 cars do not have the tyre widths like 1/8 cars that run rear solids better as a result) (2) tremendous understeer and torque on-power exit from corners makes car control difficult.

The 710 comes with a front 1-way as std but for about $12 you can get the pins and collar to convert it into a front solid in a flash. Front diff is a little costly though but most ppl don't use front diff unless their running at very small tracks that require the turning and braking as well. Most racers run 1-way or front solid anyway. If ever, front diff are employed, its usually tightened close to a font solid to prevent power loss otherwise your car will mosey around the track like you're "driving Miss Daisy..."

Out of the box, the R40 sports what appears to be an enclosed F/R diff which makes for less dirt in the diff but the fact that it uses a geared diff could spell shredded gears and expensive replacement (ask Team Associated NTC3 racers why NTC3 pros usually change a set of diffs after each Heat/Main). Especially if you're using a high powered engine running a tight diff.

The 710 uses ball diffs which don't have that issue and the balls and diff plates are pretty inexpensive to replace. Both diffs require regular maintenance but ball diffs are easier to rebuild provided you don't lose any of the balls! The R40 despite being an enclosed diff, (running geared diff) needs more greasing regularly. In comparison, ball diff assemblies are also lighter.

Weight-wise the 710 is one of the lightest rolling chassis' out of the box. Quite a few ex-Kyosho owners have remarked that using the same engine from their Kyosho's the 710 seemed faster. Its actually 'underweight' at most race meets. Marketing is about highlighting your strengths and playing down your weaknesses - there's doesn't appear to be an obvious mention of weight at the HPI site for the R40.

The 710's general diff stiffness can be adjusted during assembly. Added to that the 710 also sports diff collars that allow for quick track side adjustment of diff stiffness. Since the f/r diffs are built similarly this works both on the 710's f/r diffs. The R40 doesn't appear to have these features at all.

From the manual the R40 also seems to have a faster means to change 1st and 2nd spurs by using a threaded gear housing. Could work against you though, if the housing thread strips. To exacerbate this, the general rule is, 'use threadlock when locking metal-on-metal', so be prepared for regular threadlock application. The 710 uses tapping screws that screw into the spurs itself, which are wear and tear items. The spur usually goes before the housing.

The R40 has an adjustment feature not present on the 710 - adjustable wheelbase using plastic C clips. Nevertheless, with some dremel action and the addition of plastic C clips, most racers make this mod to their 710's if they regularly race smaller, tighter tracks.

The R40 also boasts covered F/R drive trains. Personally, I don't think this bears much consequence. Altho, it may arguably keep some dirt out, it makes for harder inspection and maintenance. The bottom of the drive trains are still exposed and this may negate the effect of the covered top since the top may actually 'assist' in trapping dirt thrown in from the bottom. Added to that, if the covers were designed to contribute to the overall chassis rigidity, that leaves little option in removing them. From a grease monkey's opinion - more covers = more screws to remove. The beauty of the 710 is its simplicity and the fact that you can see/access almost 90% of the car without removing anything, making for a grease monkey's 'wet-dream'.

I personally hate turnbuckle camber adjusters and this is a feature of the rear of the R40 (Kyosho V series sports similar design). The 710 uses the pivot balls for all round camber adjustments. Not only are turnbuckles stiffer to turn but from experience I also prefer the pivot balls over turnbuckles because if you happen to clip the rear, the tendency is for the pivot ball to slip out of the wheel mount whereas in the case of turnbuckles which are securely fastened to the wheel mount, there might be a higher likelihood of wheel mount breakage or a bent turnbuckle.

Working on a V1RR Evo recently, the rear turnbuckle was the main cause for binding in the rear arm assembly. The ball joint didn't move freely in the connector rod. However, with pivot balls, binding usually only occurs upon over tightening of the pivot ball covers.

Another plus of ball joint camber adjustment is that you can count the number of rotations so in the event that you need to reset the car after replacing a busted wheel mount (without a setting board present), remembering the number of rotations to remove the ball joint can quickly put your car back on the road. Something that's difficult to do with turnbuckles unless you use calipers to measure the distance between the turnbuckle rod ends (assuming the turnbuckle isn't bent out of shape already).

The 710 was designed with some lowered cost running in mind so the top swing arms all round are interchangeable left for right and vice-versa. The rear wheel mounts sport similar characteristics. The bottom arms, aren't. Not sure about the R40.

I noted also the lower positioning of R40's main driveshaft to lower the car's CG but this appears to make the spurs rotate very close to the ground. Which may be a bad thing if you run the car on dirty tracks as this leads to chipped pinions and spurs quickly.

The R40 has more pinion and spur choices over the 710.

The R40 has a switch mount and the servos can be removed without removing the upper deck. Plus the receiver box is enclosed. Leaving the middle of the car bare and wiring easier. All good stuff but I personally, don't like servos mounted far out off the side of the car for fear of side collision damage. The 710 has no switch mount but eventually all 710 owners learn that having no switch can be a good thing. Less weight, less chance of batt power loss and easier to remove the upper deck from the chassis. Wiring the 710 admittedly, can be a challenge though but do it right once and never touch it again.

I'm not sure but the R40 does not appear to have the Serpent's unique 4-hole adjustable shock system. Where at a twist of the shock piston, the dampening characteristics can be changed in seconds. The 710 also comes decked with more carbon fibre than the R40. Dearer to replace if broken, but the good news is the carbon fibre parts, with the exception of the rear shock tower, are rarely exposed to collision damage and breakage.

Both sport roll centre adjusment features, although (as a side note), I don't think the V1 series does. It wasn't present on the V1RR Evo I serviced recently, at least. Having roll centre adjustment options is a definite plus.

Hope this helps!

Oh yeah, as a parting note. Serpent recently revised its package for the 710 (altho not evident on their web site) and the latest 710's ship with newer orange coloured components that were previously purple. Added to that, some hop-ups are included as part of the kit. If memory serves me correctly among them, include; (i) 2.5mm & 3mm anti roll bars (ii) vented brake disc. The best part of all this!? Serpent has retained the original parts of the kit as well, so you get the hop-ups AND the std bits, eg the non-vented brake disc AND the vented brake disc.

To be totally clear, its best you pop by your local Serpent dealer and check out what's actually in the kit.

One more thing, I wouldn't gauge a car's potential by who wins international competitions. I believe that depends more on the budget of the manufacturer, who can buy the better driver. If it was the car alone, then why can't all of us do it?

Don't know much about pro RC drivers but if you watch MotoGp, Valentino Rossi's winning on a Yamaha but previously won on a Honda. Does that mean Honda's aren't good anymore?

nikkor

That is a very well written, well thought out article. I thank you for your effort.

It weighs the pros and cons of the R40 and 710 very well indeed, unbiased I hope.

Speaking to one of the better drivers at the HUgo Taka race on Friday who was running a not so pro car, with a not so pro engine and uncornering basically every car, he mentioned that 710s are not popular due to durability issues at the old sembawang track. I've read that Serpants are prone to some issues, such as stripping gears, stuff like that.

I'm not sure about this.

RR

And who say, RC players ARE NOT HELPFUL

Well nikkor, I don't see u have problem getting support

maybe a simple way to choose a car...
visit a few local races, a few hobby shops, ask around
get the right group of kaki....

and next u know... u r fixing and getting ready to play already
more important... be happy, enjoy the hobby and new found friends

anyway Sg RC sense is not that big...
Gentleman START your engine !!!

my 50cents

golem

iTrader: (1)

I think every car has its weaknesses otherwise, we'd all only buy that one perfect car that is cost effective, handles like a dream and still looks pleasing to the eye, naked. I don't believe its fair to fault a single car unless the flaws run through and through.

To that end, I have to admit that the 710 is not perfect. As to 'stripping gears' the only real complaint in this area for the 710 is when the newer 16t pinion is employed. If you check Serpent's own web site's forum, the complaints are visible for all to see and Serpent (I hope) is working on overcoming it. Otherwise, if stripping occurs using any other gear, its most likely due to improper meshing. I believe the guys at Sembawang were probably running a 16t owing to the smaller circuit demanding high acceleration.

The other 'durability' issue would stem from the 710's front bumper design where the top plate holding the bumper is secured using the same screws that hold down the front diff. Where in the event a hard frontal impact, will either:

1. break the top plate entirely and/or;
2. transfer the force of the impact onto the 2 screws and cause them to strip and pop out effectively leaving you with a knackered front bumper and, now, free moving front diff

The 710's rear shock tower is also prone to breakage owing to its design where it sits rather high over the chassis. Flip the car the wrong way and its time to dish out money for some new carbon fibre shock towers.

Nevertheless, in step with RC being a hobby, part of the interest that immerses me into it, is the challenge to overcome these shortcomings. As opposed to buying a 'perfect' car that all I need to do is fill it with nitro and drive it around. If I wanted that I wouldn't buy high grade nitro cars to begin with but stick to off the shelf RC from a toy store.

The above mentioned issues are the most prevailant among 710's. Other issues remain localised to an individual's use and abuse of the car. The good news is there are solutions to these short comings. Which is why its good to buy a car which is used widely - for the support. Even if you cannot find a kaki in Singapore.

I have to say, Serpent has done well in offering support through its web site. Through www.mytsn.com you can even communicate to their factory drivers or lobby nagging design flaws directly to the manufacturer. If you scour the site, you can even find instances where the founder himself has replied a 710 owner. I believe that 'passion' fuels the interest and the founder has since sold Serpent to its factory driver Michael Salven and his partners, so now the brand is racer owned and run!

Kyosho and HPI, as far as I know, has no such offering. This, undoubtedly, makes owning a 710 or any other Serpent an immersive consumer experience and brings about a feeling of 'family' among other Serpent drivers.

As mentioned, every car's shortcomings are usually owner rectifiable with enough effort and research or 'modded', which eventually gives individuality to each car. Personally, this contributes to the overall satisfaction of partaking in this hobby.

Some common solutions to the above issues include:

a. the 16t pinion meshing can be improved with the aid of the Serpent engine monoblock M12 hop-up but still regular re-meshing is required when using the 16t owing to the spur wear that increases the distance significantly from 1 tank to another;

b. the 'vulnerable' front is commonly severed from the main chassis and the top plate used on its own, secured to the bumper by means of snap pins on the body posts, this design durability can be further improved by replacing the std lower bumper plate with the Serpent Lola bumper plate grounded down with a Dremel to match the bumper foam profile;

c. Serpent has attempted to 'correct' the original rear shock tower design (1.5mm carbon fibre) by replacing it with the 3mm carbon fibre rear shock tower which now ships as std with all 710's. To make this close to bullet proof, buy another 3mm rear shock tower and CA 2pcs of the 3mm shock tower together, changing the rear securing screws for longer ones to facilitate the, now modded, thicker rear shock tower

Once you carry out these mods, you should be a happier 710 racer.

In conclusion, I always hang onto the analogy of F1 racing. A mate of mine always reminds me that F1 cars are designed to do one single thing - win. If by the end of race win, the F1 car falls to pieces after crossing the checkered flag, its viewed as a success. They were never designed to sustain high impact crash damage and keep going. Its for similar reasons most pro racers commonly sell their winning cars after the race only to purchase another for the next. I believe that owing to a heightened sensitivity to slight performance abnormalities, pro users prefer new cars for each race. Another reason is, when costed out its usually cheaper to lose some money and buy an all new car than retrofitting the race worn car to an almost immaculate condition. Find out the cost of replacing an entire set of bearings and you'll quickly know what I'm on about.

Taking the F1 analogy, I apply a similar philosphy in RC. Not wanting a car that is completely bullet proof since that would definitely add weight and possibly make the car sluggish. I know individuals who personally lob on more and more allu to a car wantonly, to make the car more resilient to driver error when instead more time should be spent adding to the driver's skill.

Instead of making the car into a tank, the next logical step is improving my driving skills to crash less or in the event of a crash, minimise damage through 'skillful' crashing where possible.

Oh,... one other consideration is the level which you intend to eventually take this hobby. By this, I mean how much time and effort you see yourself putting into it. For example, Mugen's are not only reputed to be resilient cars but also easier to drive out of the box. Serpent's on the other hand, owing to the plethora of setting combinations available to the user, require some time just getting used to and understanding the animal. Then setting it to suit your preferred driving style. So, you have to decide. Do you want more setting choices or just something that you spend less time on and just drive around once a week?

Obviously, the more setting choices there are, the more patience you must have to strive to learn more about them. I've realised that if you hold out and persevere, in the long-run, you gain invaluable insights into car handling and performance differences as a result (it took me close to 4 months of almost religious dedication before I understood my 710; even then I'm still undergoing 'continous learning', which keeps my interest). Which can later be applied to any car. With simpler cars, you have quick access to fun, but arguably less exposure to the intricacies of car handling and settings.

Note: some individuals who were not prepared for the extent of a 710's setting combinations, have usually sold off their 710's within a couple of months in angst, citing complaints that the car 'cannot handle'. Bear in mind that the default settings recommended by Serpent for the 710, is meant for a car that runs on large, smooth high-speed tracks (which are common in Europe). Some tweaking to the factory settings is most likely required, if you intend to run on smaller, tighter tracks like the ones found in Sembawang.

Killjoy

If I am not mistaken the R40 and V1RRR are lower then $650. Market price that is. Not the "tagged" price.

All are cars are fast cars in the hands of one who know how to drive and set it up to match the track condition.

I have seen even the humble(and relatively cheaper)G4 kick some serious butt out on the track.

If you are a newbie then i advise you to consider getting a "strong" car that can take abuse. Not a car that have tons of settings options available. Also a car where the cost of spares (like arms, shock towers, dog bones etc) are affordable.

golem

iTrader: (1)

Either that or do what most people do when they start off. Get a reasonable condition secondhand car at an affordable price.