Pantoura, 1/10 Pan Car, 2S LiPo, Brushless, Tips and Tricks.
09-07-2006, 08:51 AM
#61
You always want to have the side dams on. High speed handling is dramatically improved with them - we've experimented with none, with small ones, and big ones. Bigger the better (although, rules (somewhere. . .) say that you have to use the ones that came with the body. . .so. . .)
09-07-2006, 08:51 AM
#62
Originally Posted by John Stranahan
Thanks for the help all.
Here is the plan. I plan to buy harder front tires as well as the softest white rears. I can still use the pink rears if the whites don't improve things. I have moved the wing back. I plan to add clear side dams for now. Increase the wing size. Add the suntan lotion after the paragon. I had a suspicion that the lack of proper side damper action was causing my spins, which happen mostly at speed on the straights. The pod may be bouncing giving me uneven traction. For this reason I added a tripple shock setup with sedan shocks which I had on hand. These are very tunable. The track will also season up a bit with use which should improve things. The 1/8 scales were sliding around quite a bit today as well.
My low speed cornering on the hairpins was actually quite good for the conditions of the track.
Here is the plan. I plan to buy harder front tires as well as the softest white rears. I can still use the pink rears if the whites don't improve things. I have moved the wing back. I plan to add clear side dams for now. Increase the wing size. Add the suntan lotion after the paragon. I had a suspicion that the lack of proper side damper action was causing my spins, which happen mostly at speed on the straights. The pod may be bouncing giving me uneven traction. For this reason I added a tripple shock setup with sedan shocks which I had on hand. These are very tunable. The track will also season up a bit with use which should improve things. The 1/8 scales were sliding around quite a bit today as well.
My low speed cornering on the hairpins was actually quite good for the conditions of the track.
You might need to drop center shock oil and spring weight because the center shock is positioned flatter now.
A more horizontal shock normally moves the car's balance more forward.
You can also try springs on the side shocks instead of the small side springs.
09-07-2006, 09:08 AM
#63
Thanks for the posts
I will try more caster. I will try the Lola body next. I thought I would get some wear out of this one first. I will shoo goo the side dams on and hunt for a bigger wing. The center spring is soft; it feels close to what I had on the car with a copper spring. I can use lighter oil in it.
John
I will try more caster. I will try the Lola body next. I thought I would get some wear out of this one first. I will shoo goo the side dams on and hunt for a bigger wing. The center spring is soft; it feels close to what I had on the car with a copper spring. I can use lighter oil in it.
John
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-13-2006 at 08:23 PM.
09-07-2006, 02:31 PM
#64
I have done some calculations on finding the center of pressure for fin stabilized model rockets. What you do is put the center of aerodynamic pressure (from mostly the fins) behind the center of mass. Then you will have stable point first flight. I guess that is what we are trying to do with the side dams on the pan car. Here is a pic of the new wing and side dam. There is a touring car wing low which catches every bit of air above the decklid. It is only slightly shorter than the black plastic wing and is not very visible. The side airdams are screwed on so I can replace them with bigger ones if need be. Short test maybe tomorrow. Lola body next.
09-07-2006, 05:56 PM
#65
Check it out
John this should pump you up. Check out this video of a HPI RS 10G 10th scale pan car hitting 147 kmph. Oh and no sign of a blow over................ 
http://www.hpieurope.com/show_video....=en&videoID=43
http://www.hpieurope.com/show_video....=en&videoID=43
09-08-2006, 08:38 AM
#66
90MPH. . .sweet!
09-08-2006, 11:29 AM
#67
John,
Have you experienced any problems using the LRP Brushless speedo with the Novak brushless motor? I've heard from folks that have had some problems with cogging or other performance issues. I was wondering what your first hand experience is?
seprits
Have you experienced any problems using the LRP Brushless speedo with the Novak brushless motor? I've heard from folks that have had some problems with cogging or other performance issues. I was wondering what your first hand experience is?
seprits
09-08-2006, 12:08 PM
#69
Originally Posted by sepirts
John,
Have you experienced any problems using the LRP Brushless speedo with the Novak brushless motor? I've heard from folks that have had some problems with cogging or other performance issues. I was wondering what your first hand experience is?
seprits
Have you experienced any problems using the LRP Brushless speedo with the Novak brushless motor? I've heard from folks that have had some problems with cogging or other performance issues. I was wondering what your first hand experience is?
seprits
i didnt have a problem with mine until it went up in smoke
now Im back with the GTB
09-08-2006, 12:17 PM
#70
Marcos.J, AdrianM, I thought the rumors I've heard were unfounded. The source was the same people that not long ago had bashed brushless technology.
I recently pickedup an LRP Sphere comp to see how it performs vs the GTB (not to mention, it's a tad lighter). So far, I can't see much (any) performance difference.
I recently pickedup an LRP Sphere comp to see how it performs vs the GTB (not to mention, it's a tad lighter). So far, I can't see much (any) performance difference.
09-08-2006, 12:24 PM
#71
Tech Adept
For brushed it also works verry good...
09-08-2006, 03:54 PM
#72
Tech Regular
wandering ... other thing it could be the servo due voltage drop in circuit.
the bottom a arm have not been leveled precisly enough
Caster tooo low start with 10 degrees
Diff not prepared well enough which causes slipping thus wander
Use a p-dub trust bearing to cure this really you should..
the bottom a arm have not been leveled precisly enough
Caster tooo low start with 10 degrees
Diff not prepared well enough which causes slipping thus wander
Use a p-dub trust bearing to cure this really you should..
09-08-2006, 05:31 PM
#73
sepirts-I have no problems to report with the LRP Spere competition and the Novak 4.5, but then I am not giving it a very hard workout yet with 2 wheel drive on a dusty track. The touring car eats brushless stuff in Houston in August. In February they work fine. I like the fact that the Sphere has a program to reduce punch. I have it at level one which is smooth, low traction.
No cogging or sluggish response to report. It is working very smooth and needs to with this car on this track.
Smokin Motor. I'll look into that thrust bearing. Maybe you could post a link.
Red-Line MO3-thanks for the video 40 mph to go.
Second Test Session
I had a much more satisfying test session this time around. I’ll start with the good news. The first run was with the wing as in the photo above. It worked great. The car tracked straight as a bullet on the long 220 ft straight. It did the sweeper well, good steering, no oversteer. I could hit an estimated 50 mph just before the sweeper geared 90/13, 6.92 (27.6 mm/rev). The track was still dirty, but the Coppertone 50 helped. I was reaching about 40 mph at the end of the second largest straight. The touring car goes a radar measured 45 mph on the straight, so that is my gauge. On the last pack I ran 22 minutes!!!, without a stop, and ended short because of an incident. This runtime will undoubtedly get less as I gain skill and my lap times improve with the car, and especially if they treat the track.
Wing positions
I tried two other wing positions. No black wing. This moved the center of pressure back about 3/4 inch. The car became a little unstable on the straight. I hit a bump on the far outside of the straight on one lap and the car did a perfect endo, landed back on its tires and I continued practice. The car really liked the triple wing setup better.
I moved the black wing back 1/2 inch. The car was just a little unstable, but I could run at high speed still. I hit the same bump by accident and the car did an endo but landed on the roof. I can avoid this bump with more care; it is right near the outside stripe. The car is going fast in the air but it flutters and loses speed quickly. This ended my 22 minute run. I’ll return the wing to the photo position for the next test. No real danger for a well positioned corner marshall or spectator outside the fence. Good course design.
Throttle
The car now has two levels of grip. Going slow you have to baby the throttle a little on the dusty track. After it has gone 15-20 ft. The wing really starts to help and you can get to full throttle a lot faster (without spinning out). I will push this distance smaller with practice. Acceleration is nothing short of spectacular once you are on the wing.
The car no longer spins in the middle of the long straight or the short straights. The wing helped a lot on the long straight, but I think the new side shocks helped the most on the short straights, (along with the Coppertone)
Corner Exit Oversteer
I think a highly skilled driver could drive the car very fast as is. I need a little more help on corner exit. It feels like the car is driving forward on only the outside rear tire. The car spins very easy at the 2-3 foot mark out of the corner. I understand that this is a property of rear wheel drive only cars, but I think some suspension tricks might cure this. Diff was loose. Mid corner the car is good. Corner entry is good. I am going to try to move the rear side springs up high. I'll do some tests on spring tension.
I used the same tires pink rear magenta front. New tires are not in yet.
Mechanical problems
The little 8 x 32 stud pulled out of the rear axle. It looks like it was glued in and the glue failed or maybe it just stripped the fiberglass which really does not hold threads well. I drilled it 1/4 inch deeper rethreaded it, put in a longer screw with superglue then accelerator, cut off the head with the dremmel and saved the session.
Motor
The 4.5 motor seems to be a good match to the car and track. Plenty of top speed. not too much punch when geared low. I will increase the gear as grip and skill come up.
No cogging or sluggish response to report. It is working very smooth and needs to with this car on this track.
Smokin Motor. I'll look into that thrust bearing. Maybe you could post a link.
Red-Line MO3-thanks for the video 40 mph to go.
Second Test Session
I had a much more satisfying test session this time around. I’ll start with the good news. The first run was with the wing as in the photo above. It worked great. The car tracked straight as a bullet on the long 220 ft straight. It did the sweeper well, good steering, no oversteer. I could hit an estimated 50 mph just before the sweeper geared 90/13, 6.92 (27.6 mm/rev). The track was still dirty, but the Coppertone 50 helped. I was reaching about 40 mph at the end of the second largest straight. The touring car goes a radar measured 45 mph on the straight, so that is my gauge. On the last pack I ran 22 minutes!!!, without a stop, and ended short because of an incident. This runtime will undoubtedly get less as I gain skill and my lap times improve with the car, and especially if they treat the track.
Wing positions
I tried two other wing positions. No black wing. This moved the center of pressure back about 3/4 inch. The car became a little unstable on the straight. I hit a bump on the far outside of the straight on one lap and the car did a perfect endo, landed back on its tires and I continued practice. The car really liked the triple wing setup better.
I moved the black wing back 1/2 inch. The car was just a little unstable, but I could run at high speed still. I hit the same bump by accident and the car did an endo but landed on the roof. I can avoid this bump with more care; it is right near the outside stripe. The car is going fast in the air but it flutters and loses speed quickly. This ended my 22 minute run. I’ll return the wing to the photo position for the next test. No real danger for a well positioned corner marshall or spectator outside the fence. Good course design.
Throttle
The car now has two levels of grip. Going slow you have to baby the throttle a little on the dusty track. After it has gone 15-20 ft. The wing really starts to help and you can get to full throttle a lot faster (without spinning out). I will push this distance smaller with practice. Acceleration is nothing short of spectacular once you are on the wing.
The car no longer spins in the middle of the long straight or the short straights. The wing helped a lot on the long straight, but I think the new side shocks helped the most on the short straights, (along with the Coppertone)
Corner Exit Oversteer
I think a highly skilled driver could drive the car very fast as is. I need a little more help on corner exit. It feels like the car is driving forward on only the outside rear tire. The car spins very easy at the 2-3 foot mark out of the corner. I understand that this is a property of rear wheel drive only cars, but I think some suspension tricks might cure this. Diff was loose. Mid corner the car is good. Corner entry is good. I am going to try to move the rear side springs up high. I'll do some tests on spring tension.
I used the same tires pink rear magenta front. New tires are not in yet.
Mechanical problems
The little 8 x 32 stud pulled out of the rear axle. It looks like it was glued in and the glue failed or maybe it just stripped the fiberglass which really does not hold threads well. I drilled it 1/4 inch deeper rethreaded it, put in a longer screw with superglue then accelerator, cut off the head with the dremmel and saved the session.
Motor
The 4.5 motor seems to be a good match to the car and track. Plenty of top speed. not too much punch when geared low. I will increase the gear as grip and skill come up.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-08-2006 at 08:09 PM.
09-08-2006, 07:49 PM
#74
John, Thanks.
09-08-2006, 07:53 PM
#75
You are Welcome.
I had some chassis wear at the rear of the front pan. I increased the center spring from 10.5 to 12.5 pound/inch to help (these are the lightest Losi touring car Springs. This wear happens on the straight at speed. I put two 10.5 lb springs on the side shocks and removed the tiny tweak springs. This gave me a lighter roll stiffness acting on the pod because of the angle of the shocks. I have a full set of these Losi Springs all the way to 35 Pounds/inch or so.
I had some chassis wear at the rear of the front pan. I increased the center spring from 10.5 to 12.5 pound/inch to help (these are the lightest Losi touring car Springs. This wear happens on the straight at speed. I put two 10.5 lb springs on the side shocks and removed the tiny tweak springs. This gave me a lighter roll stiffness acting on the pod because of the angle of the shocks. I have a full set of these Losi Springs all the way to 35 Pounds/inch or so.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 09-08-2006 at 08:07 PM.