172LikesKyosho Ultima RB6 & RB6.6 Car Thread
12-21-2016, 08:46 AM - Wikipost
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02-21-2013, 12:57 PM
#5328
Kickup really isn't the right term to use. I prefer to use "pro-dive". It's the exact opposite of "anti-squat". It doesn't mean faster weight transfer, it means "more direct" weight transfer in regards to the angle of the chassis dive, and the direction the arms move. You get the most direct weight transfer when the suspension arms are parallel to the ground. But if the arms are parallel to the ground when the car is sitting still, they WONT be when the car rocks back or fourth. (because the chassis will now be pitched one way or another)
Think of anti-squat. When a car squats, the chassis is leaned backwards, right? Well, when the arms are parallel to the ground, the more direct the energy is traferred diectly into the shock. Anti-squat puts a backwards rake on the angle of the arms, so instead of the weight being tranferred into the arms as they swing on the hingpin, the energy is tranferred into the hingepin itself isead, which inhibits weight transfer. If you raked the rear arms the opposite direction (pro-squat), you would get even MORE squat, because when the car's butt is on the ground, the arms would be parallel to the ground.
Im not sure if that made any sense... i usually explain this stuff directly on the car with my hands.
So to finally answer your question, More "pro-dive" does the exact opposite thing to the front off the car off-throttle, as "anti-squat" does to the rear of the car, on-throttle.
More prodive = more weight transfer to the front tires off throttle / more off-throttle steering
Less prodive = less weight transfer to the front tires off throttle / less off-throttle steering
More antisquat = less weight transfer to the rear tires on throttle / more on-throttle steering
Less antisquat = more weight transfer to the rear tires on throttle / less on-throttle steering
Think of anti-squat. When a car squats, the chassis is leaned backwards, right? Well, when the arms are parallel to the ground, the more direct the energy is traferred diectly into the shock. Anti-squat puts a backwards rake on the angle of the arms, so instead of the weight being tranferred into the arms as they swing on the hingpin, the energy is tranferred into the hingepin itself isead, which inhibits weight transfer. If you raked the rear arms the opposite direction (pro-squat), you would get even MORE squat, because when the car's butt is on the ground, the arms would be parallel to the ground.
Im not sure if that made any sense... i usually explain this stuff directly on the car with my hands.
So to finally answer your question, More "pro-dive" does the exact opposite thing to the front off the car off-throttle, as "anti-squat" does to the rear of the car, on-throttle.
More prodive = more weight transfer to the front tires off throttle / more off-throttle steering
Less prodive = less weight transfer to the front tires off throttle / less off-throttle steering
More antisquat = less weight transfer to the rear tires on throttle / more on-throttle steering
Less antisquat = more weight transfer to the rear tires on throttle / less on-throttle steering
Last edited by Cpt.America; 02-21-2013 at 01:17 PM.
02-21-2013, 01:54 PM
#5330
I didn't make it through your "I don't think kickup should be called kickup" stuff but I'm going to disagree on your anti squat explanation.
Anti-squat isn't going to affect how much weight is transferred to the rear, and I've never had it affect my steering in any noticeable way.
Anti-squat will affect how hard the weight is transferred to the tires, more anti-squat will give you more weight pushed onto the tires under power but the weight will get released much faster off-power. Less anti-squat will be like the weight is more settled on the rear.
So in recap, the same weight will be transferred no matter if you have 0* or 3* of anti squat, although it will affect how the weight is pushed to the tires. And not mentioned, it will affect how the car jumps.
Anti-squat isn't going to affect how much weight is transferred to the rear, and I've never had it affect my steering in any noticeable way.
Anti-squat will affect how hard the weight is transferred to the tires, more anti-squat will give you more weight pushed onto the tires under power but the weight will get released much faster off-power. Less anti-squat will be like the weight is more settled on the rear.
So in recap, the same weight will be transferred no matter if you have 0* or 3* of anti squat, although it will affect how the weight is pushed to the tires. And not mentioned, it will affect how the car jumps.
And I gotta say, you are incorrect (i guess we can agree to disagree)... different levels of anti-squat directly affects how easy weight transfers to the rear of the car. Just like how pro-dive affects how much weight (or how easily) weight transfers to the FRONT of the car. (albeit off throttle instead of on).
The mantra around the term anti-squat says that the more antisquat you run, the more rear traction you gain when you hit the gas... but I think its 100% dead wrong / backwards. More squat = more weight = more traction. Pro-squat puts weight on the rear tires, anti-squat keeps weight on the front tires.
I have heard what you are saying 100 times, but my testing never supports it.
02-21-2013, 02:40 PM
#5334
So what you're saying is, if you place a weight on top of something (call it a base) directly, call it 100 pounds, the "amount" of weight the base feels will be 100 pounds. But if you put a shock absorber in-between them with a spring and some shock oil, it would be less than 100 pounds?
You keep saying that weight goes into the shocks.. but it doesn't really work that way, because if weight goes into the shocks, it goes into the tires. The more weight the tires holds, the more traction it develops (before skid). Unless there is some basic level of physics that I don't understand?
You keep saying that weight goes into the shocks.. but it doesn't really work that way, because if weight goes into the shocks, it goes into the tires. The more weight the tires holds, the more traction it develops (before skid). Unless there is some basic level of physics that I don't understand?
02-21-2013, 02:42 PM
#5335
On most 4wd 1/8 scales and the 2wd rb6 I have driven, more antisquat gives me more on power steering. Less anti squat on power gives me push push push.
My personal explanation (right or wrong) is on power, the hinge pin pro/anti squat, will tend to be parallel to the track surface, and depending on how its placed, will push the car on that end always tending to make the pin parallel to ground.
With respect to off power, I have not noticed significant changes to the way the car drives on changing anti squat setting. On power makes a world of difference.
My personal explanation (right or wrong) is on power, the hinge pin pro/anti squat, will tend to be parallel to the track surface, and depending on how its placed, will push the car on that end always tending to make the pin parallel to ground.
With respect to off power, I have not noticed significant changes to the way the car drives on changing anti squat setting. On power makes a world of difference.
02-21-2013, 02:45 PM
#5336
On most 4wd 1/8 scales and the 2wd rb6 I have driven, more antisquat gives me more on power steering. Less anti squat on power gives me push push push.
My personal explanation (right or wrong) is on power, the hinge pin pro/anti squat, will tend to be parallel to the track surface, and depending on how its placed, will push the car on that end always tending to make the pin parallel to ground..
My personal explanation (right or wrong) is on power, the hinge pin pro/anti squat, will tend to be parallel to the track surface, and depending on how its placed, will push the car on that end always tending to make the pin parallel to ground..
02-21-2013, 02:47 PM
#5337
Deep breaths
Deep breaths everybody, It's just a toy car!!! If it feels good drive it. If it doesn't fix it.
02-21-2013, 02:49 PM
#5338
Seth, think of it this way... When you move to a heavier rear spring, as apposed to a soft rear spring... and then hit the throttle, which will give you less rear traction and more steering?
The heavy spring will. It does that because the heavy rear spring hinders weight transfer to the rear of the car (like anti-squat), which keeps weight on the front tires. A heavy rear spring keeps the rear of the car from squating
Go to a really SOFT spring, and what do you get? The exact opposite.. The back of the car squats like a girl peeing in the woods, and you get gobs of rear traction, and no steering.
The heavy spring will. It does that because the heavy rear spring hinders weight transfer to the rear of the car (like anti-squat), which keeps weight on the front tires. A heavy rear spring keeps the rear of the car from squating
Go to a really SOFT spring, and what do you get? The exact opposite.. The back of the car squats like a girl peeing in the woods, and you get gobs of rear traction, and no steering.
02-21-2013, 03:00 PM
#5339
I've deleted everything I've said and will sum it up easily.
You're describing all of the setup adjustments and how they will affect their car based on the physical weight of the car (put it on a scale and measure it type) and ignoring all the other forces going on. I've been talking about weight as a combination of all the forces including the physical weight.
More anti-squat = more force put on the rear tires under acceleration
less anti-squat = the car will "sit" more and therefor transfer force to the front of the car a little slower
You're describing all of the setup adjustments and how they will affect their car based on the physical weight of the car (put it on a scale and measure it type) and ignoring all the other forces going on. I've been talking about weight as a combination of all the forces including the physical weight.
More anti-squat = more force put on the rear tires under acceleration
less anti-squat = the car will "sit" more and therefor transfer force to the front of the car a little slower
Last edited by seth556; 02-21-2013 at 03:53 PM.
02-21-2013, 05:21 PM
#5340
hey guys ive had some stuff come up and need to sell my rb6, its been ran one race weekend and had a chassis protector, comes with like 6 sets of springs, alum hubs, and misc parts, asking $415 or best offer just need it gone, check my forsale post or pm me