Team Orion Batts? Numbers suspect?
03-18-2004, 12:59 AM
#16
Orion Packs
I just received some Orion Packs and the numbers are all around 1.17's with 420 rt. These are for the 3rd generation.
These numbers seem quite a bit off, but also more realistic then the packs mentioned above.
These numbers seem quite a bit off, but also more realistic then the packs mentioned above.
03-18-2004, 07:19 AM
#17
For those of you who are not aware Orion's avg. Voltage #s are based on a 300sec cutoff not the pack's full dischange.
By the way Team Orion has modified its system and it can be more accurately described as a hybrid CE/Lavco system.
One thing that is different from company to company is their voltage enhancement processes. These will NEVER be the same from company to company.
03-18-2004, 08:17 AM
#18
Originally posted by snopro31
Has anyone took a new Orion/peak pack and tested them on their own turbomatcher?
Has anyone took a new Orion/peak pack and tested them on their own turbomatcher?
Blake
03-18-2004, 08:45 AM
#19
I would buy those 1.19's why you can, I just picked up one to see if it is bogus also compared to my Promatch packs, 1.178's. The orion seemed to be alittle faster and punchier, and 800 mAh left after running 5 minutes on a 9 dub. I will cycle them thru to see how they compare for runtime and voltage soon.
03-18-2004, 09:03 AM
#20
The packs are good....really, assemble the pack, and cycle it after a few runs at keep notes on its charge/discharge numbers. This is how most of the pros do it, because batteries do funky things after being soldered and ran....things change.
Orion is a quality company....so even if the numbers proved to be a little high, its not them cheating the system, just the fact their system measures differently.
As for the .85 cutoff....that would give you about 2 seconds, maybe 3....more than likely 1. Once the cell goes under 1 volt, it drops about .03 to .05 for each second on a turbomatcher.
Later EddieO
Orion is a quality company....so even if the numbers proved to be a little high, its not them cheating the system, just the fact their system measures differently.
As for the .85 cutoff....that would give you about 2 seconds, maybe 3....more than likely 1. Once the cell goes under 1 volt, it drops about .03 to .05 for each second on a turbomatcher.
Later EddieO
03-18-2004, 09:04 AM
#21
Orion/Peak make some Killer packs guys.
I like Fukuyama but I dont think they have even earned Orion/Peak Statue just yet.
Orion goes through more cells in a month than Fukuyama and other companies do in a year thus yielding some better packs at times.They have acces to alot more cells due to what buisness they are in overseas.Medical and more.
If you can grab anything 1.185 or higher Orion you better JUMP all over them.$60.00 is a more than fair price as well.
What scares most INTERNET guys off is they are use to seeing packs online in the $60.00 area with good #'s and Orion/Peak batteries usually carry a higher price.When shopping and SUPPORTING your local tracks most high end packs are $70.00-80.00 due to going through a distributor and double shipping.
So if your local track has #'s like that and for that cheap.I would be jumping all over it.
Very high quality cells with some of the highest quality matching and zapping equipment out there.
Goodluck with your purchase
I like Fukuyama but I dont think they have even earned Orion/Peak Statue just yet.
Orion goes through more cells in a month than Fukuyama and other companies do in a year thus yielding some better packs at times.They have acces to alot more cells due to what buisness they are in overseas.Medical and more.
If you can grab anything 1.185 or higher Orion you better JUMP all over them.$60.00 is a more than fair price as well.
What scares most INTERNET guys off is they are use to seeing packs online in the $60.00 area with good #'s and Orion/Peak batteries usually carry a higher price.When shopping and SUPPORTING your local tracks most high end packs are $70.00-80.00 due to going through a distributor and double shipping.
So if your local track has #'s like that and for that cheap.I would be jumping all over it.
Very high quality cells with some of the highest quality matching and zapping equipment out there.
Goodluck with your purchase
03-22-2004, 05:43 AM
#22
Personally in my experience, I've had great luck with several of the brands of matched packs you guys have talked about. I simply think no matter which brand you buy, the GP cells don't maintain their runtime numbers past about 4 - 6 months of usage. I've especially seen this in mod sedan which is pretty demanding as far as runtime requirements.
I think that's why you see so many guys selling their packs at the track after about 2 months.
racer-oZ
I think that's why you see so many guys selling their packs at the track after about 2 months.
racer-oZ
03-22-2004, 08:31 AM
#23
Recently I saw those Orion packs with those numbers. The shop had just bouhgt a turbo matcher and tested them.
They claimed the numbers were not even close, but now I've seen those same test batteries in there pit boxes and thats all they run.
I would buy them.
They claimed the numbers were not even close, but now I've seen those same test batteries in there pit boxes and thats all they run.
I would buy them.
03-23-2004, 04:35 AM
#24
Tech Adept
I've found this to 100% true. All of GPs, after a couple months have gone from 410 or so to 340 or so on runtime. Voltage has stayed great, maybe better than new. Other guys at the track have seen the same thing. This is not a big deal if you race stock. But if you race mod, and especially mod 1/12th scale, it is a big deal. This is why at big races you'll see the mod guys building packs and running them 1-2x. Not for voltage, but for runtime.
Seems to be that discharging below .9v/cell is what causes this. And once you drop the runtime, you'll never get it back. Check the SMC thread for more details.
Seems to be that discharging below .9v/cell is what causes this. And once you drop the runtime, you'll never get it back. Check the SMC thread for more details.
Originally posted by racer-oZ
I simply think no matter which brand you buy, the GP cells don't maintain their runtime numbers past about 4 - 6 months of usage. I've especially seen this in mod sedan which is pretty demanding as far as runtime requirements.
I simply think no matter which brand you buy, the GP cells don't maintain their runtime numbers past about 4 - 6 months of usage. I've especially seen this in mod sedan which is pretty demanding as far as runtime requirements.
03-23-2004, 01:35 PM
#25
Battery labels:
I agree with Rick, everyone uses different procedures and voltage enhancements.
so with that said it is very hard to compare one matcher against another,
stick to who you trust and feel comfortable with.
I think everyone is so caught up in the # 's game they forget that it is the track were you see or feel a difference.
A heads up review in a mag would be cool, but I doubt anyone would do it properly, they would need to protect current advertisers or future advertisers. I think that is why we read what we read as it is. Really what is the point? we are all dealing with the same sources and the same cell. it would be hard to
get a **** pack and a *** pack, the same age, same date code, etc etc to really compare.
We tend to stick to our own philosophy, we rather slightly under rate our cells and have customers happily surprised from a cycle or a race.
Orion is a quality company, as are many out their.
everyone has their own proceedure and charging/dishcharging method
Is anyone really right or bang on with their proceedures? I know we are always looking to improve where ever we can.
Thats the great thing about racing, the competition between company's.
happy matching.
Korgae
SMC
I agree with Rick, everyone uses different procedures and voltage enhancements.
so with that said it is very hard to compare one matcher against another,
stick to who you trust and feel comfortable with.
I think everyone is so caught up in the # 's game they forget that it is the track were you see or feel a difference.
A heads up review in a mag would be cool, but I doubt anyone would do it properly, they would need to protect current advertisers or future advertisers. I think that is why we read what we read as it is. Really what is the point? we are all dealing with the same sources and the same cell. it would be hard to
get a **** pack and a *** pack, the same age, same date code, etc etc to really compare.
We tend to stick to our own philosophy, we rather slightly under rate our cells and have customers happily surprised from a cycle or a race.
Orion is a quality company, as are many out their.
everyone has their own proceedure and charging/dishcharging method
Is anyone really right or bang on with their proceedures? I know we are always looking to improve where ever we can.
Thats the great thing about racing, the competition between company's.
happy matching.
Korgae
SMC
Last edited by Korgae; 03-23-2004 at 02:09 PM.
03-23-2004, 03:51 PM
#27
Runtime:
4-6 months is quite a bit of usage. Also, you may be able to maintain or help rebuild runtime. Most people are using trays- trays that discharge at high currents like 10 amps or even 5 amps. If you need to have lots of runtime, get a tray that discharges at 1 or .5 amps. Takes along time, but you will love your batteries after taking them down at low amp, then charging them up.
4-6 months is quite a bit of usage. Also, you may be able to maintain or help rebuild runtime. Most people are using trays- trays that discharge at high currents like 10 amps or even 5 amps. If you need to have lots of runtime, get a tray that discharges at 1 or .5 amps. Takes along time, but you will love your batteries after taking them down at low amp, then charging them up.
03-23-2004, 05:36 PM
#28
I think usage time is relative to what you are used too. I race probably twice a month, and throw in some big events in between. In my opinion at 60 bucks a pack, 4 - 6 months isn't that great of longevity, especially when I compare to what I was used to with nicads lasting a year or better. I will say in offroad it's a different story, I think you can get a longer life out of a pack in offroad. In mod sedan however, at about 4 months I begin to really see the runtime going away and getting close to dumping.
After doing a lot of research over the last few months preparing for this summer's onroad season, I've thrown my 20 amp bulb dischargers into my r/c boneyard. I think it hits the batts too hard to fast. It also causes the cells to continue to get more and more unequal as you bulb them and charge them. I picked up one of the rayspeed discharge trays that cuts each cell off at .90 volts and takes them down under 1amp per cell and equalizes the cells before each charge.
In any event, it has been a great help reading everyone's opinions on this thread!
racer-oZ
After doing a lot of research over the last few months preparing for this summer's onroad season, I've thrown my 20 amp bulb dischargers into my r/c boneyard. I think it hits the batts too hard to fast. It also causes the cells to continue to get more and more unequal as you bulb them and charge them. I picked up one of the rayspeed discharge trays that cuts each cell off at .90 volts and takes them down under 1amp per cell and equalizes the cells before each charge.
In any event, it has been a great help reading everyone's opinions on this thread!
racer-oZ
03-23-2004, 05:42 PM
#29
Tech Adept
OK, I have two packs of 1.190 452 run time. I got them for about 45 bucks a pack brand new (one pack was put together and had one cycle through it, the person who cycled it didn't want it cuase of what the CE charger cycled them at.)
The pack was still sealed instantly found its way to a CE TurboMatcher.
The run time was off by about 25 seconds. But the voltage, well I don't want to publicly bash a company but they were not close. If you would like the numbers they cycled to please PM me.
I like Team Orions products; I just think something is up with there matching system.
From the shop I purchased them from they had 5 packs of cells (four cell packs) 2 were 1.190 with 452 run time and 3 packs were 1.86 with 420 run time. Now every single cell read the same numbers. so out of 20 batteries matched from Orion in the case there were 12 reading identical numbers and 8 reading another number. I bought these to run at a regional race, while I was at the race I noticed another racer had a pack of 1.190's with 452 run time also. Why does this feel to much like a coincidence?
The pack was still sealed instantly found its way to a CE TurboMatcher.
The run time was off by about 25 seconds. But the voltage, well I don't want to publicly bash a company but they were not close. If you would like the numbers they cycled to please PM me.
I like Team Orions products; I just think something is up with there matching system.
From the shop I purchased them from they had 5 packs of cells (four cell packs) 2 were 1.190 with 452 run time and 3 packs were 1.86 with 420 run time. Now every single cell read the same numbers. so out of 20 batteries matched from Orion in the case there were 12 reading identical numbers and 8 reading another number. I bought these to run at a regional race, while I was at the race I noticed another racer had a pack of 1.190's with 452 run time also. Why does this feel to much like a coincidence?
03-23-2004, 06:25 PM
#30
I have also tried a bunch of these packs, and i like them alot.
My numbers are
1.180 / 422
1.190 / 422
1.175 / 431
1.188 / 453
1.195 / 446
I dont have a turbo to cycle them on, but i did run them on my charger to find that the voltage was a little high then my epic 1.177 / 427 and also had more runtime. No where near what i think it should be at, but i was still very pleased.
My numbers are
1.180 / 422
1.190 / 422
1.175 / 431
1.188 / 453
1.195 / 446
I dont have a turbo to cycle them on, but i did run them on my charger to find that the voltage was a little high then my epic 1.177 / 427 and also had more runtime. No where near what i think it should be at, but i was still very pleased.