Team Orion Batts? Numbers suspect?
03-24-2004, 10:08 AM
#46
I was actually looking for alternatives to SMC. The last 2 packs I have purchased have been total duds. This could just as easily been a SMC numbers suspect thread.
All the other matchers sell out of 1.17+ packs quickly and the average pack appears to be 1.16's but all I see coming from SMC are 1.17's at our local shops. Not accusing anyone of anything, just wierd that SMC somehow finds a lot of really good batteries.
So far Fukuyama is the only matcher that has my confidence.
Blake
All the other matchers sell out of 1.17+ packs quickly and the average pack appears to be 1.16's but all I see coming from SMC are 1.17's at our local shops. Not accusing anyone of anything, just wierd that SMC somehow finds a lot of really good batteries.
So far Fukuyama is the only matcher that has my confidence.
Blake
Originally posted by Korgae
Racer Oz-
Yes, I work for SMC, I also headed up a battery company before Danny & Jack asked me to join them. I didn't want to turn my post into a ad for us. It's a fine line when you are a company rep... I just wanted to offer my knowledge and opinion.
as for storing- we recommend to our users that they either store them Dead Shorted. ( if you run Stock or 19 turn) or simply discharge @ 30 amps to 5.40V and leave them. (for Mod) before you run your pack again place it on your tray for around 5-10 minutes then charge. We strongly recommend the Indy Reactor 30 for discharging ( if you do not have a CE Turbo charger) For the the Indy Octane 2 20 amp tray is what we use.
As for how long, I do not know. I know we have cycled packs that have been DS'ed for 3 months and they are still strong. but we have not done tests longer then that. I would guess that they would be okay for a longer period of time
If you have any more questions, then I would be more then happy to answer them in Our tech forum ( on this site)
As for what I would buy: Well because I see the hard work that goes into each SMC cell and the fact that Danny is a perfectionist, my choice is simple.
but with that said, I have many "pro" and "semi Pro" racer friends and at the races they all don't run our stuff. So its clear that other's have also figured it out
I really think it comes down to the level of racer you are, and who you trust and feel comfortable with. If SMC wasn't around, and I wasn't in the industry I would go with what works at my local track or what has the best positive feed back from racers If you hear a lot of good things about a company then its a good indication that they are fair and honest.
One thing I would do for sure is buy a good charger and test everything I built. you have to, to really know what you got.
Someone mentioned that you can not compare CE machines meaning you can not purchase cells and simple flip a T4 on and run a cycle. and I agree with that.
Cells are very sensitive with temp. we all know ( at least I preach it) that you have to run your cells hot to get Voltage. well it is the same with matching. Matchers have a controlled environment that stays the same all the time. ( well most good ones do)
so if a LHS has a matcher and simply turns it one and throws cell's on it, then the #'s will or could be off. the machine would require a "warm up Cycle" then the cell would have to be "stable" meaning the cell can not be completely cold. To make a cell temp stable can take a few days so if the shop is slightly below room temp all the time then the cell will never be stable . its complicated.
and that is why I strongly recommend a GFX or Turbo 30,35. Trust me you get what you pay for. It's way easier to test on the GFX then try to fuss with the matchers.
build your pack, let it sit a few hours cycle it on your GFX ( keep the pack in the box while charging and cycling) and read the results.
its pretty simple to see what you bought, and it will give you piece of mind as well. Our roots are in Oval and really that is where our name and image came from, the Oval guys are insane and need every little bit of performance and Pull ( voltage) if you pick a company that has excelled on the Oval scene you can't go wrong.
Man I could go on and on..
Korgae
Racer Oz-
Yes, I work for SMC, I also headed up a battery company before Danny & Jack asked me to join them. I didn't want to turn my post into a ad for us. It's a fine line when you are a company rep... I just wanted to offer my knowledge and opinion.
as for storing- we recommend to our users that they either store them Dead Shorted. ( if you run Stock or 19 turn) or simply discharge @ 30 amps to 5.40V and leave them. (for Mod) before you run your pack again place it on your tray for around 5-10 minutes then charge. We strongly recommend the Indy Reactor 30 for discharging ( if you do not have a CE Turbo charger) For the the Indy Octane 2 20 amp tray is what we use.
As for how long, I do not know. I know we have cycled packs that have been DS'ed for 3 months and they are still strong. but we have not done tests longer then that. I would guess that they would be okay for a longer period of time
If you have any more questions, then I would be more then happy to answer them in Our tech forum ( on this site)
As for what I would buy: Well because I see the hard work that goes into each SMC cell and the fact that Danny is a perfectionist, my choice is simple.
but with that said, I have many "pro" and "semi Pro" racer friends and at the races they all don't run our stuff. So its clear that other's have also figured it out
I really think it comes down to the level of racer you are, and who you trust and feel comfortable with. If SMC wasn't around, and I wasn't in the industry I would go with what works at my local track or what has the best positive feed back from racers If you hear a lot of good things about a company then its a good indication that they are fair and honest.
One thing I would do for sure is buy a good charger and test everything I built. you have to, to really know what you got.
Someone mentioned that you can not compare CE machines meaning you can not purchase cells and simple flip a T4 on and run a cycle. and I agree with that.
Cells are very sensitive with temp. we all know ( at least I preach it) that you have to run your cells hot to get Voltage. well it is the same with matching. Matchers have a controlled environment that stays the same all the time. ( well most good ones do)
so if a LHS has a matcher and simply turns it one and throws cell's on it, then the #'s will or could be off. the machine would require a "warm up Cycle" then the cell would have to be "stable" meaning the cell can not be completely cold. To make a cell temp stable can take a few days so if the shop is slightly below room temp all the time then the cell will never be stable . its complicated.
and that is why I strongly recommend a GFX or Turbo 30,35. Trust me you get what you pay for. It's way easier to test on the GFX then try to fuss with the matchers.
build your pack, let it sit a few hours cycle it on your GFX ( keep the pack in the box while charging and cycling) and read the results.
its pretty simple to see what you bought, and it will give you piece of mind as well. Our roots are in Oval and really that is where our name and image came from, the Oval guys are insane and need every little bit of performance and Pull ( voltage) if you pick a company that has excelled on the Oval scene you can't go wrong.
Man I could go on and on..
Korgae
03-24-2004, 10:18 AM
#47
my .02
I run SMC 16's. With the same stock motor's, my SMC Cells don't loose anything on the straight compared to the Orion cells. Sandhill cells are also very good as well.
If your not happy with them, Sell them on Ebay. They go for all the money there. That say's a lot about the general confidence in the companies ability to sell a true product.
lol
If your not happy with them, Sell them on Ebay. They go for all the money there. That say's a lot about the general confidence in the companies ability to sell a true product.
lol
03-24-2004, 11:22 AM
#48
I take no sides in the battery wars... I've started matching/zapping my own batteries for this reason.
I can tell you that SMC goes through MANY more batteries than most other companies now with their current facilities. For this reason alone, it would stand to reason that they would have more 1.17's than other companies just due to sheer volume.
Also, a lot of LHS' only order the higher numbers because that's what sells... so maybe you are being a bit harsh in throwing that statement out.
Again I am not sponsored in any way by ANY company and I have nothing to gain. I just thought I'd share my vantage point on this subject.
I can tell you that SMC goes through MANY more batteries than most other companies now with their current facilities. For this reason alone, it would stand to reason that they would have more 1.17's than other companies just due to sheer volume.
Also, a lot of LHS' only order the higher numbers because that's what sells... so maybe you are being a bit harsh in throwing that statement out.
Again I am not sponsored in any way by ANY company and I have nothing to gain. I just thought I'd share my vantage point on this subject.
03-24-2004, 12:02 PM
#49
dr_hfuhuhurr-lil advertising there?
I have sold thousands of SMC packs over 5 yrs and this so called 2 packs of duds Im not understanding.If there was a bad cell or something then yes but to say false #'s from Danny's Packs?I hate to say it but your CRAZY.This guy does more to his cells and spends more time with them that I have EVER seen from anyone else.ANYONE.
I have NEVER in my time seen 2 packs that were duds NOR have the inflated #'s you speak of.
Now depending on what your charging on,at and with what cutoff could have alot to account for it.
I charge and treat my orion's different from My SMC's due to learning how they were treating their cells.
Nothing really special just a difference in Cutoff Voltage.
Fukuyama makes some really nice packs,as Does Peak/Orion but your statement and how it was said I find FALSE.Sorry but I would like to track down those 2 packs to see how you treated them and charged them.But duds I think not.
I have sold thousands of SMC packs over 5 yrs and this so called 2 packs of duds Im not understanding.If there was a bad cell or something then yes but to say false #'s from Danny's Packs?I hate to say it but your CRAZY.This guy does more to his cells and spends more time with them that I have EVER seen from anyone else.ANYONE.
I have NEVER in my time seen 2 packs that were duds NOR have the inflated #'s you speak of.
Now depending on what your charging on,at and with what cutoff could have alot to account for it.
I charge and treat my orion's different from My SMC's due to learning how they were treating their cells.
Nothing really special just a difference in Cutoff Voltage.
Fukuyama makes some really nice packs,as Does Peak/Orion but your statement and how it was said I find FALSE.Sorry but I would like to track down those 2 packs to see how you treated them and charged them.But duds I think not.
03-24-2004, 05:06 PM
#50
Korgae, thanks for the info. I don't have the money for a turbo charger, but my LRP does have a cycle feature that gives me a runtime at 10 amps and an avg voltage. I know it's not a high amp rate, but in cycling my packs I have definately identified the strong ones from the weak ones. I'm going to keep cycling them once a month to track their longevity and performance and to begin my own unscientific comparison of the different brands of matchers. Thanks again!
racer-oZ
racer-oZ
03-25-2004, 07:28 AM
#51
No advertising intended and I wasn't trying to accuse SMC of inflating their numbers. I just don't care for their packs. Like I said, the last 2 packs I purchased were flat.
Being out $140 for two 1.179 SMC packs that just didn't perform as well as the 1.165's (Fukuyama) or the 1.179's (Pro-Match) that I also had just left me ticked with SMC. I know lots of people who swear by SMC...I'm just not one of them.
I started this thread because the orion numbers on a pack I saw in the shop (but were bought before I could get back there) were suspect. 1.19's are something I've NEVER seen in a shop. If I see more...I will buy them on the spot.
Blake
Being out $140 for two 1.179 SMC packs that just didn't perform as well as the 1.165's (Fukuyama) or the 1.179's (Pro-Match) that I also had just left me ticked with SMC. I know lots of people who swear by SMC...I'm just not one of them.
I started this thread because the orion numbers on a pack I saw in the shop (but were bought before I could get back there) were suspect. 1.19's are something I've NEVER seen in a shop. If I see more...I will buy them on the spot.
Blake
03-25-2004, 09:06 AM
#52
Last I heard SMC matches something like 30k cells a month....while smaller companies like Promatch do around 5-8k per month......so its understandable why you see a lot more high voltage packs from them......it could also be thats ALL your local hobby shop orders.....if they only order the BEST series packs, then all they will ever get is 1.17x packs.
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
03-25-2004, 12:44 PM
#53
Dr_,
Sorry you were not happy with your packs, We would be more them happy to test and replace them for you.
That is always our policy with any pack we sell.
I found this thread: It's dated 2 weeks ago so im guessing these would be "your latest packs"
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...threadid=35716
Are these the "Flat" packs your talking about?
Korgae
Sorry you were not happy with your packs, We would be more them happy to test and replace them for you.
That is always our policy with any pack we sell.
I found this thread: It's dated 2 weeks ago so im guessing these would be "your latest packs"
http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...threadid=35716
Are these the "Flat" packs your talking about?
Korgae
03-25-2004, 01:22 PM
#55
Tech Addict
I noticed that some of the printing of the stickers with the matching info on them is blurred on your promatch packs.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...&postid=766390
In the FAQ section on promatches site you will see this:
"We have recently noticed on many of the cells returned to us for warranty review, the lettering on the labels were smeared. After some testing we have determined that the smearing was caused from subjecting the cells to extreme temperatures 200+ degrees Fahrenheit. We cannot overstress the importance of monitoring the temperature of these cells to make sure this does not happen. These cells are not designed to operate under such extreme circumstances. Please find photo below which shows the condition we are talking about. The cell on the left is a normal cell. The cell on the right shows the darkened and smeared lettering. Any cells that show this have been overheated and will have at least some damage to them. Please note that cells returned to us in this condition WILL NOT be covered under our warranty!"
Mabey you damaged the SMC packs by overheating them as well?
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme...&postid=766390
In the FAQ section on promatches site you will see this:
"We have recently noticed on many of the cells returned to us for warranty review, the lettering on the labels were smeared. After some testing we have determined that the smearing was caused from subjecting the cells to extreme temperatures 200+ degrees Fahrenheit. We cannot overstress the importance of monitoring the temperature of these cells to make sure this does not happen. These cells are not designed to operate under such extreme circumstances. Please find photo below which shows the condition we are talking about. The cell on the left is a normal cell. The cell on the right shows the darkened and smeared lettering. Any cells that show this have been overheated and will have at least some damage to them. Please note that cells returned to us in this condition WILL NOT be covered under our warranty!"
Mabey you damaged the SMC packs by overheating them as well?
03-25-2004, 01:26 PM
#56
The pro-match packs were bought used from another local racer. I had them for a few months then sold them. I'm very careful with the packs I build, and with everything I build...anyone who's seen or bought my cars/stuff can attest to that. If there was heat damage...it wasn't by me.
03-25-2004, 01:52 PM
#57
The biggest thing that I have seen in this battery war that we are all in is that there is nothing better than a fresh battery pack. I have 2 packs of Fuku's that were bought before cleveland that are 1.182's at 421-423. These packs were great for a few months, and now are just okay. I purchased some Orion packs from my LHS recently and I couldn't be happier. I picked up 4 packs ranging from 1.189 459sec to 1.196 453sec. The packs came out to $60.00 a pack and were well worth it. I have put them on my turbo matcher and have had someone else do them just in case I was getting a false reading. I re-ran the Fuku's and they showed 385sec - 393sec and an average of 1.171v-1.173v. This is okay, but I run 12th scale 8 minute races. They just don't last anymore. The orions actually came out with a run time of only 10-15 seconds below their labelled numbers and the voltage was still 1.18+ for all of the cells. I say that is definately okay for me.
I use the fukuyama method of charging and maintaining the cells, and have now for 6 months and it is a great method. Go to their site and try it and the cells will last a decent amount of time.
That's my .02
Good luck,
Tim
I use the fukuyama method of charging and maintaining the cells, and have now for 6 months and it is a great method. Go to their site and try it and the cells will last a decent amount of time.
That's my .02
Good luck,
Tim
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