Brushless Myths from Trinity
08-31-2006, 01:07 PM
#17
Tech Addict
"Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival."
I love this one. They should talk. They're stock motors have probably the most inconsistant quality and performance of anything on the market. I guess it's ok though because they're cheaper to replace.
I love this one. They should talk. They're stock motors have probably the most inconsistant quality and performance of anything on the market. I guess it's ok though because they're cheaper to replace.
08-31-2006, 03:28 PM
#18
Originally Posted by AE Racer
I guess it's ok though because they're cheaper to replace.
08-31-2006, 05:52 PM
#19
Does anyone have the full original text or a link to it?
08-31-2006, 06:07 PM
#20
Tech Addict
I think the full text was in the link posted above. I havent seen it mentioned yet that the brushless motor myths crap was not just on their website, they took out an ad in magazines and printed it to try to brainwash people.
09-01-2006, 02:43 AM
#22
I notice that no trinity employees have come on to put us straight about anything weve said, i would have expected them to reply with something. For example, if you posted on the JRX-S forum saying "Why have you made a change to such and such a thing, i dont like it?!" You usually get a reply from one of the losi guys, usually Hodge, Andrew Gray or Dumas explaining their reasons behind it! Im just wondering why theres been no arguments to counter the statements in this thread!
09-01-2006, 03:49 AM
#23
Tech Adept
Probably because on the JRX thread people dont act like this and treat people will this little respect. It seems no matter my company does there will be people out there who just like to hate.....
We make great stock motors at a great price, we held our modified motor retail price of $95 while others raised their's immediately. We give you a Dyna-pulse which was an advance of what was presently offered, a DPD (discharger) which is the best on the market for one of the cheapest prices and now we gave you brushless at a lower price because a lot of customers asked for it. We did the R&D before we came out with the product; we did not ask you to buy the system and pay for it with your own money and develop it for us?
I still do not think "currently" brushless will replace brushed. Price, power bands, heat issues etc at "this moment" will not allow it; but there is a place for it and I tried to provide it for you....WRONG AGAIN!
We make great stock motors at a great price, we held our modified motor retail price of $95 while others raised their's immediately. We give you a Dyna-pulse which was an advance of what was presently offered, a DPD (discharger) which is the best on the market for one of the cheapest prices and now we gave you brushless at a lower price because a lot of customers asked for it. We did the R&D before we came out with the product; we did not ask you to buy the system and pay for it with your own money and develop it for us?
I still do not think "currently" brushless will replace brushed. Price, power bands, heat issues etc at "this moment" will not allow it; but there is a place for it and I tried to provide it for you....WRONG AGAIN!
09-01-2006, 03:58 AM
#24
Tech Regular
Ernie,
Are you going to come out with a stock equivalant brushless?
Are you going to come out with a stock equivalant brushless?
09-01-2006, 04:04 AM
#25
Tech Adept
I wont release a "stock" equivalent because there is no such thing. Stock was initiated many years ago to try and give an equal playing field at a "lower price-point". Brushless IMO presents too high a price and too many electronic variables to give someone an edge that tech inspectors will not be able to determine.
I will stay with the ROAR guidelines for stock
And for the record, I still BELIEVE brushless mods should be raced in THEIR OWN CLASS!
I will stay with the ROAR guidelines for stock
And for the record, I still BELIEVE brushless mods should be raced in THEIR OWN CLASS!
09-01-2006, 04:11 AM
#26
Tech Regular
Maybe they should be separated, though with the rules ROAR went with for Brushless they dont seem to have a real advantage in mod, at least not yet. I am glad to see Trinity come out with the brushless because more competition is always better. Though in stock the last couple of years it has been fun seeing you compete against yourself since no one elsr seems to want to play Probably ought to start another thread but is there anywhere you would like to see stock motor rules go to improve their life and the amount of maintenance, and I hate to say this because of the response it will get but maybe slow them down, because right now stock is running as fast as mod did in the 80's when I started racing.
Probably ought to start another thread but is there anywhere you would like to see stock motor rules go to improve their life and the amount of maintenance, and I hate to say this because of the response it will get but maybe slow them down, because right now stock is running as fast as mod did in the 80's when I started racing.
09-01-2006, 04:16 AM
#27
Brushless Specs
Ernie,
I can understand your frustration. I hope my post was not so insulting. I didn't mean it to be. But for me from a credibility standpoint, it would help to see Big T post more Technical data like wattage, Krpm/Volt, etc. I read "3 turn equivalent" and it sounds a little dubious to me without the other numbers. But maybe being an engineer I'm just swayed too much by data that maybe doesn't mean too much anyway. If there is some good reason the data isn't posted or if it is misleading maybe you could explain that.
In fact I wish someone would come up with a dyno system with drag and variable fluid load plus torque and acceleration, something technical enough to explain a motor's power band and maybe even predict gearing, but not so technical we can't figure it out or use it ourselves. Some standard then all makers can post standard specs that do a better job of predicting track runs.
Mike
I can understand your frustration. I hope my post was not so insulting. I didn't mean it to be. But for me from a credibility standpoint, it would help to see Big T post more Technical data like wattage, Krpm/Volt, etc. I read "3 turn equivalent" and it sounds a little dubious to me without the other numbers. But maybe being an engineer I'm just swayed too much by data that maybe doesn't mean too much anyway. If there is some good reason the data isn't posted or if it is misleading maybe you could explain that.
In fact I wish someone would come up with a dyno system with drag and variable fluid load plus torque and acceleration, something technical enough to explain a motor's power band and maybe even predict gearing, but not so technical we can't figure it out or use it ourselves. Some standard then all makers can post standard specs that do a better job of predicting track runs.
Mike
09-01-2006, 04:35 AM
#28
Tech Adept
Hi tarheelquality....yes I know they do not have an advantage at this moment but then again I do not think rules should be made in this manner. They should be the same for everyone! I believe that brushed mod should be in one class with their current rules and the brushless should be in another with a much "tighter set of rules" made not only by the brushless manufacturers (which we currently have).
Slowing them down...I have tried this over the years, Equalizer, 5 degree etc etc You would think "it is all relative" and people would/should not care and would welcome this idea but not the case. People like and or interested in SPEED....nothing wrong with that but we have to accept what that brings with it.....battery issues, car parts breakage, motor issues etc etc
Slowing them down...I have tried this over the years, Equalizer, 5 degree etc etc You would think "it is all relative" and people would/should not care and would welcome this idea but not the case. People like and or interested in SPEED....nothing wrong with that but we have to accept what that brings with it.....battery issues, car parts breakage, motor issues etc etc
09-01-2006, 04:37 AM
#29
Tech Adept
Hi swopemike....how to answer this "politically correct". Saying something is 3 turn or 3.5 turn etc etc. Since every dyno is different and there are so many load factors involved in testing a motor back to back "to seek an equivalent".....numbers like this have taken on the following meanings?
How much RPM is listed on that motor?
What size is that engine? .25, .27, .30, .32
Not saying this is right....but this is the reality
How much RPM is listed on that motor?
What size is that engine? .25, .27, .30, .32
Not saying this is right....but this is the reality
09-01-2006, 07:18 AM
#30
ErnieP - So if you believe Brushless has a place in this industry and should at least race in it's own class... Why bash it with your "Brushless Myths" ads?!
For many of us... Eliminating the high maintenance, long term costs, and time consumption of using a Brushed motor is a big plus as to why we have come back or stayed with Electric kits. If you compare the two... and if you look at it coldly... Brushed Motors are starting to become a hindrance to the Electric side of the hobby. Sure it can be argued that their performance still may be better in the short term... but it won't be long where Brushless technology and performance will surpass it (especially with Li-Po packs also making a strong push). This combo will now gives us longer run-times, less costs in the long run, and just a lot more free time. It is the combination and the shot in the arm the Electric side of this hobby needs after constantly being in the shadows of Nitro the last few years.... especially in Off-Road racing and bashing.
For many of us... Eliminating the high maintenance, long term costs, and time consumption of using a Brushed motor is a big plus as to why we have come back or stayed with Electric kits. If you compare the two... and if you look at it coldly... Brushed Motors are starting to become a hindrance to the Electric side of the hobby. Sure it can be argued that their performance still may be better in the short term... but it won't be long where Brushless technology and performance will surpass it (especially with Li-Po packs also making a strong push). This combo will now gives us longer run-times, less costs in the long run, and just a lot more free time. It is the combination and the shot in the arm the Electric side of this hobby needs after constantly being in the shadows of Nitro the last few years.... especially in Off-Road racing and bashing.