Why
09-12-2006, 07:58 PM
#16
Lipos
The reason I think mainly is the fact that a Lipo can be a bomb if not handled correctly by say an 8 year old competitor. Of course Nitro can be pretty flamible and we let our kids play with them. I don't know, I think they should be allowed. Gofastrlbrown
09-12-2006, 08:01 PM
#17
Originally Posted by trilerian
As far as the danger in concerned with any battery. Ignorant people do stupid things, it doesn't matter how fool proof you make something someone will hurt themself.
I just love how they think these cost more..... Do the math... you will see your inital investment is higher, but over the same life of the LiPo, it is cheaper... LiPo has something like 4000 cycles in it, only the last 20% (800) are not as strong as the first 80% (3200), I like to see your subC do that...
09-12-2006, 08:46 PM
#18
The simple reason why most tracks wont allow lipo's is to keep the racers coming back and not being driven out by the higher costs.
1 racer gets a lipo, is faster than the others, even if he was faster to start with, then others would feel pressured to switch too.
The costs are still too high, new lipos, new chargers, and what do you do with your big investment of chargers and batt packs?
Its easyer to atract new racers with used equip and batts that always seem to be available, not so easy when they have to spend $125 for 1 pack and then a charger too.
It takes new blood to keep the doors open, the new batch of cars are a lot tuffer, less parts sales, need a lot less hopups, thats where the most money is made, they cant survive selling tires and boddies alone.
Fred
1 racer gets a lipo, is faster than the others, even if he was faster to start with, then others would feel pressured to switch too.
The costs are still too high, new lipos, new chargers, and what do you do with your big investment of chargers and batt packs?
Its easyer to atract new racers with used equip and batts that always seem to be available, not so easy when they have to spend $125 for 1 pack and then a charger too.
It takes new blood to keep the doors open, the new batch of cars are a lot tuffer, less parts sales, need a lot less hopups, thats where the most money is made, they cant survive selling tires and boddies alone.
Fred
09-12-2006, 09:23 PM
#19
What about the people who buy the brand new IB4200's that are not yet legal. Making it so if I want to stay competitive with them I have to get rid of my legal gp3700's because they have more fade at the end of a race than the 4200's. Then I need to spend (for one car) $140.00 for two batteries that will be no good next season. Regardless what anyone says, you need to practice with your race batteries in order to see the true effect to your setup changes. Yes, sure I can sell my old batteries for 1/3 the price I paid for them and get back $45.00 or so, but with the lipo it is good this season and next season at least. When you are competing at the top level of your club, batteries make a huge difference, so what the fast guy has you need in order to possibly beat him. In my opinion, lipo is just a better investment.
09-12-2006, 09:48 PM
#20
I think people to need to really look at the costs really are.
One of the best chargers out for Lipo's out is this one..
http://www.teamorion-avionics.com/Ad...Flight+Charger
It retails for $79.99
And the new Orion 3200 Lipo that will fit into Touring Cars...
Will Retail around $89-99
So lets do the math.
Charger and Battery $170 - $200
Now lets look at a desent pack and charger.
Orion matched pack $69.99
Duratrax ICE $109.00
THat is $170.00
SO where is the problem....?
You get more runs on lipo and they don't loose there punch after 20 runs.
Now that is all I am going to say..
-Shookie <><
One of the best chargers out for Lipo's out is this one..
http://www.teamorion-avionics.com/Ad...Flight+Charger
It retails for $79.99
And the new Orion 3200 Lipo that will fit into Touring Cars...
Will Retail around $89-99
So lets do the math.
Charger and Battery $170 - $200
Now lets look at a desent pack and charger.
Orion matched pack $69.99
Duratrax ICE $109.00
THat is $170.00
SO where is the problem....?
You get more runs on lipo and they don't loose there punch after 20 runs.
Now that is all I am going to say..
-Shookie <><
09-12-2006, 09:59 PM
#21
I purchased 2 4800 Platinum Orion Lipos a month or so ago mainly for my offroad cars, and I don't think I'll ever go back to Nimhs! So far the only issues I've had with them is getting my cars setup right without the Nimh weight and accidently 'frying' a couple of steering servos (they were cheap ones and I didn't ave a cap. on my receiver..getting a more expensive servo and puting the cap on has seemed to solve this..).. Everything else seems fine....
-I don't have to peak them the split second before a race to get the max voltage..
-I don't have to replace bad cells every two months just because I hit an object a little hard or the cells just decide to give up the ghost...which over time becomes costly... especially when no one stocks the cells you use because the technology has changed seemingly overnight...
-You can use the lipos over and over again, so you only need one or 2..you normally need several Nihm packs for racing..and at $55 or more a pop for matched Nihm packs, that becomes costly...
-No Archian discharge / storing and matching rituals... After a race day, just top the packs off and store them as long as you like...
The only limits I see right now for Lipos and similar technology is the availabe shapes and voltages and the car designs themselves (getting a car designed so it can handle better with the lighter weight..)...and who knows, those things may become non issues at some point.
So far I'm very impressed with this technology.. Only time will tell if ROAR and other sanctioning bodies will allow different battery technologies in their rulebooks.... They better, or I'll just race club events and never go to a sactioned race! (I'm not that good anyways, so no harm, no foul
)
-I don't have to peak them the split second before a race to get the max voltage..
-I don't have to replace bad cells every two months just because I hit an object a little hard or the cells just decide to give up the ghost...which over time becomes costly... especially when no one stocks the cells you use because the technology has changed seemingly overnight...
-You can use the lipos over and over again, so you only need one or 2..you normally need several Nihm packs for racing..and at $55 or more a pop for matched Nihm packs, that becomes costly...
-No Archian discharge / storing and matching rituals... After a race day, just top the packs off and store them as long as you like...
The only limits I see right now for Lipos and similar technology is the availabe shapes and voltages and the car designs themselves (getting a car designed so it can handle better with the lighter weight..)...and who knows, those things may become non issues at some point.
So far I'm very impressed with this technology.. Only time will tell if ROAR and other sanctioning bodies will allow different battery technologies in their rulebooks.... They better, or I'll just race club events and never go to a sactioned race! (I'm not that good anyways, so no harm, no foul
)
09-12-2006, 10:25 PM
#23
Duratrax Ice charger- $120
Novak 9A pwer supply- $60
SMC IB3800 matched pack- $60x4= $240
Novak Smart tray- $75
Battery bars- $5x4= $20
Cell shrink- $2
Ni-mh cost- $517
Orion avionics charger- $80
Novak 9A power supply- $60
Orion platnium 4800mah lipo- $140x2= $280
Lead weights- $5
Li-po cost- $425
Difference= $92/$14= 6.5 pairs of foam tires
Ni-mh= Owned
Novak 9A pwer supply- $60
SMC IB3800 matched pack- $60x4= $240
Novak Smart tray- $75
Battery bars- $5x4= $20
Cell shrink- $2
Ni-mh cost- $517
Orion avionics charger- $80
Novak 9A power supply- $60
Orion platnium 4800mah lipo- $140x2= $280
Lead weights- $5
Li-po cost- $425
Difference= $92/$14= 6.5 pairs of foam tires
Ni-mh= Owned
09-12-2006, 11:22 PM
#24
NiMh cells last forever if you charge them at 2A and never dischagre them faster than 20A...but we dont do that.
As soon has LiPo becomes the norm I flat out gaurantee the following things will happen:
1. Someone will start matching and grading LiPo cells.
2. There will be a battery war between Kokam and 2-3 other manufacturers over max C racing and voltage holding power.
3. Some one will figure out that charging LiPo at 10A makes them a whole lot faster...but they burn up in 30 runs.
4. Everyone will have to charge at 10A or they might as well stay home and watch football.
This is what we do to all cells we race NiCd, MiMh and in the future LiPo.
As soon has LiPo becomes the norm I flat out gaurantee the following things will happen:
1. Someone will start matching and grading LiPo cells.
2. There will be a battery war between Kokam and 2-3 other manufacturers over max C racing and voltage holding power.
3. Some one will figure out that charging LiPo at 10A makes them a whole lot faster...but they burn up in 30 runs.
4. Everyone will have to charge at 10A or they might as well stay home and watch football.
This is what we do to all cells we race NiCd, MiMh and in the future LiPo.
09-12-2006, 11:26 PM
#25
Justinian, in my MF2, I have my GTX and Spektrum RX mounted ontop of my Platnum 4800. That seemed to help me out with the weight changes. It's really well balanced with my GTB mounted on the lipo battery. I know it goes against the wisdom to keep things low (for CG). But, Losi was done a lot of work with the JRXS keeping weight centerline, so I thought I would give that a try. It works.
I have 4 lipos that I use in my buggy and truck. I've raced 4 classes (stock and 19T buggy, 19T & mod truck) in one day (3 qual, 1 main) and I didn't even use my third pack. I only charged the stock pack, because I was bored. I've even raced my MF2 against the 1/10 nitro truck field - I can hold my own, as long as I don't get crushed.
I'm never running nimh offroad again. Between lipo and brushless, I spend more time on the drivers stand than I do wrenching on my cars truing comms, discharging / charging batteries, etc!!!
I have 4 lipos that I use in my buggy and truck. I've raced 4 classes (stock and 19T buggy, 19T & mod truck) in one day (3 qual, 1 main) and I didn't even use my third pack. I only charged the stock pack, because I was bored. I've even raced my MF2 against the 1/10 nitro truck field - I can hold my own, as long as I don't get crushed.
I'm never running nimh offroad again. Between lipo and brushless, I spend more time on the drivers stand than I do wrenching on my cars truing comms, discharging / charging batteries, etc!!!
09-12-2006, 11:27 PM
#26
Simple
Do you see any LiPo manufacturers or suppliers sponsoring races, tracks, events, of sanctioning bodies?
Do you see any LiPo manufacturers or suppliers sponsoring races, tracks, events, of sanctioning bodies?
09-12-2006, 11:50 PM
#27
Tech Elite
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MOOD;; feeling good not racing ,saving shed loads of money,lovely Tan i have aswell
Posts: 4,762
[QUOTE=bvoltz]You guys are soooooo wrong.... QUOTE]
Just read the first 3-4 reply`s & i am on the floor laughing at why some guy`s are not willing to read & learn
talk about run down the Li-Po scene & lets scare every one while we at it aswell
Ammo` box i`ll ask ya
also the Sub -c cells are built differently inside from 3300 to 4200 so it`s not just chemical that has changed
Just read the first 3-4 reply`s & i am on the floor laughing at why some guy`s are not willing to read & learn
talk about run down the Li-Po scene & lets scare every one while we at it aswell
Ammo` box i`ll ask ya
also the Sub -c cells are built differently inside from 3300 to 4200 so it`s not just chemical that has changed
09-13-2006, 12:25 AM
#28
Originally Posted by TPhalen
My guess is that NiCds and NiMh batteries are not as much a hazard as LiPos....and everyone that GOES to the track already has everything they need to charge them. LiPo's are a bit more dangerous...even requiring you to charge them in a flame proof box...ie ammo box.
You have to remember who you're talking about here, too.
• Airplane/Heli guys use LiPos all the time....but most are VERY experienced and tend to not destroy their equipment. If they crash, they crash big.
• Car guys are a little more irresponsible. Jumping their cars into one another, running them up and down the street until the pack dumps (bad on LiPos), leaving the battery on the charger for extended periods of time...leaving the pack plugged in when not in use...etc.
You have to be a bit more responsible to use LiPos...most shops/tracks aren't ready for someone who isn't responsible to burn their place down.
My 2c.
You have to remember who you're talking about here, too.
• Airplane/Heli guys use LiPos all the time....but most are VERY experienced and tend to not destroy their equipment. If they crash, they crash big.
• Car guys are a little more irresponsible. Jumping their cars into one another, running them up and down the street until the pack dumps (bad on LiPos), leaving the battery on the charger for extended periods of time...leaving the pack plugged in when not in use...etc.
You have to be a bit more responsible to use LiPos...most shops/tracks aren't ready for someone who isn't responsible to burn their place down.
My 2c.
09-13-2006, 12:50 AM
#30
Originally Posted by AdrianM
As soon has LiPo becomes the norm I flat out gaurantee the following things will happen:
1. Someone will start matching and grading LiPo cells
1. Someone will start matching and grading LiPo cells
Originally Posted by AdrianM
3. Some one will figure out that charging LiPo at 10A makes them a whole lot faster...but they burn up in 30 runs.
Is there an actual danger of this happening? Or is this more fear-mongering?
No one I know that uses the LiP charges them on anything other than a normal pit table - no flame-proof boxes! The BRCA Bike section has been using LiPo for a long time now and there have been no problems at all. Airplaine guys must be laughing their (insert body part of choice) at all this continued paranoia, fear of change and climate of fear...