MONEY RACING
06-30-2004, 10:02 PM
#31
Dustin;
You're right!!!
You're right!!!
07-01-2004, 06:58 AM
#32
ROAR Regionals are currently the only regular "sanctioned" races in the NW.
This year the On-Road Nats are up here as well, so that's obviously sanctioned.
ROAR's stance on Money races is they are against it due to the liabilty issues. I'm not sure what that means. I would suspect it has to do with legal wording in there insurance carrier's policy. Maybe there ROAR's contract. None-the-less that is what is said by the ROAR higher-ups.......
With the popularity of Money races blowing up across the country and obviously a new trend starting, I don't think ROAR will have many members left if they start revoking memberships.
This year the On-Road Nats are up here as well, so that's obviously sanctioned.
ROAR's stance on Money races is they are against it due to the liabilty issues. I'm not sure what that means. I would suspect it has to do with legal wording in there insurance carrier's policy. Maybe there ROAR's contract. None-the-less that is what is said by the ROAR higher-ups.......
With the popularity of Money races blowing up across the country and obviously a new trend starting, I don't think ROAR will have many members left if they start revoking memberships.
07-01-2004, 07:19 AM
#33
Tech Apprentice
I totally agree, I guess what my point was, if you are going to have money races, they totally need to have another set of strict rules, tech inspections applied. The old "Roar rules will apply" just won't cut it anymore. As for racing, I do it for fun, (says the person who doesn't win) I don't care if I get a bowling trophy or a gift certificate to Subway in a town I'll never go to again, just as long as I get to hang out with a few buds.
07-01-2004, 08:39 AM
#34
The money races will only pad a few of the very best driver`s pockets & do nothing for the all the other racers & events...
The only reason we are seeing these mola races pop up as of late is because there are so many events to choose from .
These money event organizer`s are trying to compete with all those other club events.
How ?
With money!
Its a new way to get you to consider racing at their $Money$ events unstead of the regular schulele trophy & club events....
So how is giving away $500 bucks to a factory sponsored driver gona work for us ?
*By destroying the club events we already have , to the point we won`t even have um anymore....
* Incorage cheating , hacking, team driving & bad sportsmanship.....
* the regular non-sponsored driver gets nothing....(O.k. $10 )
* Only will split & divide our already fantastic R/c racing community & events...
Unstead of money , or more factory drivers, the factory`s need to start doing their fair share of promoting R/c racing.
We need these factorys to stop spending all their money on sponsoring factory racer`s & more on promoting local race events with go fast stuff & prizes...
Simple is`nt it ?
For now however, the factorys will continue what they been doing for years, after all it works great for them .
Their car`s & drivers will always win !
Best part for the factorys, they save all that money that would of been used to promote events.
After all promoting a event will not help their car or products to win...
AaaaaH !
Its all azz backwards....
Our events suffer now days & because the manufactors do not really incourage racing..
They only incourage & promote their cars to win.
Money will not promote me to race.....
prizes, barbeque`s, gory , pizza , beer >>>
These will do wonders for racing compared to giving the Factory drivers ($500$) or me ( 10 bucks)....
Ps who`s gona make the factorys change ?
Not Roar....
Only you can !
You can convince um to look past their profit only motives.
Write um a letter, talk to the factory reps, ect....
OPEN THEIR EYES !
The only reason we are seeing these mola races pop up as of late is because there are so many events to choose from .
These money event organizer`s are trying to compete with all those other club events.
How ?
With money!
Its a new way to get you to consider racing at their $Money$ events unstead of the regular schulele trophy & club events....
So how is giving away $500 bucks to a factory sponsored driver gona work for us ?
*By destroying the club events we already have , to the point we won`t even have um anymore....
* Incorage cheating , hacking, team driving & bad sportsmanship.....
* the regular non-sponsored driver gets nothing....(O.k. $10 )
* Only will split & divide our already fantastic R/c racing community & events...
Unstead of money , or more factory drivers, the factory`s need to start doing their fair share of promoting R/c racing.
We need these factorys to stop spending all their money on sponsoring factory racer`s & more on promoting local race events with go fast stuff & prizes...
Simple is`nt it ?
For now however, the factorys will continue what they been doing for years, after all it works great for them .
Their car`s & drivers will always win !
Best part for the factorys, they save all that money that would of been used to promote events.
After all promoting a event will not help their car or products to win...
AaaaaH !
Its all azz backwards....
Our events suffer now days & because the manufactors do not really incourage racing..
They only incourage & promote their cars to win.
Money will not promote me to race.....
prizes, barbeque`s, gory , pizza , beer >>>
These will do wonders for racing compared to giving the Factory drivers ($500$) or me ( 10 bucks)....
Ps who`s gona make the factorys change ?
Not Roar....
Only you can !
You can convince um to look past their profit only motives.
Write um a letter, talk to the factory reps, ect....
OPEN THEIR EYES !
Last edited by Wild Cherry; 07-01-2004 at 08:47 AM.
07-01-2004, 10:15 AM
#35
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (51)
MONEY MONEY
I think a true "PRO" status is the next phase for the growth of the sport. In my opinion it will only strengthen local club racing and the solid foundation of the sport - if its done correctly. This "Pro" class would be the only place I would like to see cash prizes over a certain amount. I don't see a problem with cash prizes under $500 for any race or racer status.
Wild Cherry - you are right, the reason the money races are popping up is to get people at your event. Exactly the same as NASCAR, Golf, and many other racing and individual sports. If you want the big boys - you need to show the money.
This doesn't destroy local clubs - in fact it can be used to make them stronger. Rules will have to be established to seperate "Pro" drivers from amateurs (? spelling) . I'm a golfer, so I know that golf uses a system of seperating "pro" from amateur, once you win money (over a certain amount) you lose your amateur status and you can't go back. So an amateur could race in a "Pro" rc event, but could not be awarded prize money if they wanted to keep their amatuer status. Likewise if you want to step up to the "Pro's" don't count on racing any sanctioned "ROAR" events after that point, you can't play there anymore.
I'm still not sure how winning money would encourage cheating, hacking and bad sportsmanship - you are still racing amongst your peers - your reputation is all you've got. I think we need to upgrade our opinion and expectations of one another. If we are all hackers, cheaters and poor sportsman then we all suck!! If we aren't, we will be able to deal with a few bad apples. I agree it may encourage team driving - I don't see a problem with that.
Supporting a pro driver can give the manufacturers exposure in each of the R/C car magazines. If I was a manufacturer I would pour money into factory drivers and have my logo plastered on everything they drive, wear and touch. Then all the little kiddies will buy and race my product at their club races. Likewise, I would also "support" local races with prizes and sponsership when I could. But there are 50 states and who knows how many tracks per state .... how much can they do at each track? I bet in California a lot of the local races do get support.
I don't think anybody is suggesting we do away with our local club events and the great thing we have going in the northwest. It sounds like TRCR has a great club racing event going and I don't think it will be going anywhere in the future. I think we are looking at the future growth of this sport - which may not be barbeque`s, glory , pizza , beer ..... all that stuff already exists and doesn't have to go anywhere. You just might have to enjoy it on the bleachers while you watch the fast guys drive. Or better yet you could get sponsered by Po Boy's Pit Barbacue, Red Hook and Dominoes.
Wild Cherry - you are right, the reason the money races are popping up is to get people at your event. Exactly the same as NASCAR, Golf, and many other racing and individual sports. If you want the big boys - you need to show the money.
This doesn't destroy local clubs - in fact it can be used to make them stronger. Rules will have to be established to seperate "Pro" drivers from amateurs (? spelling) . I'm a golfer, so I know that golf uses a system of seperating "pro" from amateur, once you win money (over a certain amount) you lose your amateur status and you can't go back. So an amateur could race in a "Pro" rc event, but could not be awarded prize money if they wanted to keep their amatuer status. Likewise if you want to step up to the "Pro's" don't count on racing any sanctioned "ROAR" events after that point, you can't play there anymore.
I'm still not sure how winning money would encourage cheating, hacking and bad sportsmanship - you are still racing amongst your peers - your reputation is all you've got. I think we need to upgrade our opinion and expectations of one another. If we are all hackers, cheaters and poor sportsman then we all suck!! If we aren't, we will be able to deal with a few bad apples. I agree it may encourage team driving - I don't see a problem with that.
Supporting a pro driver can give the manufacturers exposure in each of the R/C car magazines. If I was a manufacturer I would pour money into factory drivers and have my logo plastered on everything they drive, wear and touch. Then all the little kiddies will buy and race my product at their club races. Likewise, I would also "support" local races with prizes and sponsership when I could. But there are 50 states and who knows how many tracks per state .... how much can they do at each track? I bet in California a lot of the local races do get support.
I don't think anybody is suggesting we do away with our local club events and the great thing we have going in the northwest. It sounds like TRCR has a great club racing event going and I don't think it will be going anywhere in the future. I think we are looking at the future growth of this sport - which may not be barbeque`s, glory , pizza , beer ..... all that stuff already exists and doesn't have to go anywhere. You just might have to enjoy it on the bleachers while you watch the fast guys drive. Or better yet you could get sponsered by Po Boy's Pit Barbacue, Red Hook and Dominoes.
07-01-2004, 10:30 AM
#36
Money won't wreck anything, if done right by all!!
Well said Motoazure,
At ESLROC we had two drivers in our first season win $500.00 with their Championships. The way we did it was there had to be 10 drivers pay the points fund fee of $50.00 to qualify that class for the $500.00 bonus. Only two divisions qualified and a few of the others came close. If I had it to do differently, I would have distributed winnings to the top 3 instead of just one. We no longer do that because I had some of the other divisions complain because they had 8 or 9 drivers and they expected the bonuses still. I set the 10 car/driver limit so the club did not have to pay it out of the race fees that come in which supports buying the track equipment and other things a "mobil" track needs. I don't think there is anything wrong with paying out bonuses or prize money. Like Motoazure said, "you are still racing amongst your peers - your reputation is all you've got." I may bring back the bonus structure next year if our guys want to do that. I would still require the 10 driver limit at $50.00 per car and distribute it amongst the top 3 in the points. $250.00 for 1st - $150.00 for 2nd - & - $100.00 for 3rd or something like that. I'll try it next season if it looks like something the guys would want to do. We'll see??
At ESLROC we had two drivers in our first season win $500.00 with their Championships. The way we did it was there had to be 10 drivers pay the points fund fee of $50.00 to qualify that class for the $500.00 bonus. Only two divisions qualified and a few of the others came close. If I had it to do differently, I would have distributed winnings to the top 3 instead of just one. We no longer do that because I had some of the other divisions complain because they had 8 or 9 drivers and they expected the bonuses still. I set the 10 car/driver limit so the club did not have to pay it out of the race fees that come in which supports buying the track equipment and other things a "mobil" track needs. I don't think there is anything wrong with paying out bonuses or prize money. Like Motoazure said, "you are still racing amongst your peers - your reputation is all you've got." I may bring back the bonus structure next year if our guys want to do that. I would still require the 10 driver limit at $50.00 per car and distribute it amongst the top 3 in the points. $250.00 for 1st - $150.00 for 2nd - & - $100.00 for 3rd or something like that. I'll try it next season if it looks like something the guys would want to do. We'll see??
Last edited by Silver Cup; 07-01-2004 at 10:47 AM.
07-01-2004, 10:32 AM
#37
Tech Apprentice
motoazure well said !!!!!!!!
I think the word Cash or Money is really what may have some people concerned. Put something up Engines, Kits, Radio, Sponsorship, Money whatever. Bring something to the table to help this sport get to the next level in the NW. NW racing is VERY healthy right now, I think its a positive to ponder ideas of how to make it even better. SHOW ME THE MONEY LOL
Ryan L. McCrery
I think the word Cash or Money is really what may have some people concerned. Put something up Engines, Kits, Radio, Sponsorship, Money whatever. Bring something to the table to help this sport get to the next level in the NW. NW racing is VERY healthy right now, I think its a positive to ponder ideas of how to make it even better. SHOW ME THE MONEY LOL
Ryan L. McCrery
07-01-2004, 11:01 AM
#38
wow, george, lets be a little more open minded...
well, lets see, where do i start,
how about here...
"The only reason we are seeing these mola races pop up as of late is because there are so many events to choose from .
These money event organizer`s are trying to compete with all those other club events"
Hmmmm, my race is in october, long after the series is over, after most outdoor tracks are closed, and after all of the roar offroad sanctioned events in the northwest. so i dont see where i would be competeing with anyone, this is why it is in october, and not in july!!! Also, if it were for the money, to get people to go, so we could make the extra cash, i would not pay out 85%....... My race is for the fun,the sport and the racing, the cash is just a bonus.
next...... "So how is giving away $500 bucks to a factory sponsored driver gona work for us ?" i can think of several unsponsored drivers that could easily win the 500.00 over the factory drivers.... i dont see kinwald, or francis showing up in washington for a 500.00 race. let alone at the last series race, there were 200 entries, and not a single SPONSORED driver won a class. in fact, i dont remember one in the top 3...
and about winning 10.00...... 10.00 dollars will buy you glo plugs, solder, brushes, wheels ect..... what will a bowling trophy get you???
lets try to be a little open minded about this subject. 8 tracks were good in the 60s, open minded people brought us cds, and mp3s. change is a good thing when done in moderation. we have a great sport, not because it is exactly as it was 5 years ago. open minded people have been promoting the hell out of it, and look at what we have now, 300+ entries at 2 day races....
how about here...
"The only reason we are seeing these mola races pop up as of late is because there are so many events to choose from .
These money event organizer`s are trying to compete with all those other club events"
Hmmmm, my race is in october, long after the series is over, after most outdoor tracks are closed, and after all of the roar offroad sanctioned events in the northwest. so i dont see where i would be competeing with anyone, this is why it is in october, and not in july!!! Also, if it were for the money, to get people to go, so we could make the extra cash, i would not pay out 85%....... My race is for the fun,the sport and the racing, the cash is just a bonus.
next...... "So how is giving away $500 bucks to a factory sponsored driver gona work for us ?" i can think of several unsponsored drivers that could easily win the 500.00 over the factory drivers.... i dont see kinwald, or francis showing up in washington for a 500.00 race. let alone at the last series race, there were 200 entries, and not a single SPONSORED driver won a class. in fact, i dont remember one in the top 3...
and about winning 10.00...... 10.00 dollars will buy you glo plugs, solder, brushes, wheels ect..... what will a bowling trophy get you???
lets try to be a little open minded about this subject. 8 tracks were good in the 60s, open minded people brought us cds, and mp3s. change is a good thing when done in moderation. we have a great sport, not because it is exactly as it was 5 years ago. open minded people have been promoting the hell out of it, and look at what we have now, 300+ entries at 2 day races....
07-01-2004, 11:23 AM
#39
have you guys looked at the entry fee`s to these money races ?
$ 100 for your first class ( Alabama)
Holy Cow !
Its gona cost you !
worst part, the factory drivers will still win most of the money(prizes)....
I rather see more in promotion , than more spending....
Thats my whole point.....
If you want to see 400 + racers ( not entries) racing at our events , you will have do better than offering mass dollars ......
Prestige, gory & pride> is whats missing now days, we have to rebuild these back into our events if you really wish to see more racers travel & race here in the N/w....
Hot Rod 400 + and no mola
Reedy 400+ and no mola
Castus Classic 400 + and no mola
Snow Bird 400 + and no mola
These events are now the # 1 events in the USA to attend......
Why ?
Sure is`nt because of the trophy`s or prizes they offer....
Its cus of the prestige, the fun & how the event was organize....
$ 100 for your first class ( Alabama)
Holy Cow !
Its gona cost you !
worst part, the factory drivers will still win most of the money(prizes)....
I rather see more in promotion , than more spending....
Thats my whole point.....
If you want to see 400 + racers ( not entries) racing at our events , you will have do better than offering mass dollars ......
Prestige, gory & pride> is whats missing now days, we have to rebuild these back into our events if you really wish to see more racers travel & race here in the N/w....
Hot Rod 400 + and no mola
Reedy 400+ and no mola
Castus Classic 400 + and no mola
Snow Bird 400 + and no mola
These events are now the # 1 events in the USA to attend......
Why ?
Sure is`nt because of the trophy`s or prizes they offer....
Its cus of the prestige, the fun & how the event was organize....
07-01-2004, 11:59 AM
#40
BECAUSE
the races you speak of are popular cause.
YOUR NOT THERE!
Guy's don't expect George to be open to new ideas. His ideas are the only ones worth listening too. If your not sure, just ask him.
YOUR NOT THERE!
Guy's don't expect George to be open to new ideas. His ideas are the only ones worth listening too. If your not sure, just ask him.
07-01-2004, 12:06 PM
#41
George.........you're funny 
Your negativity is amazing.
Does every money race have to be $100 entry fee? NO
Does every money race have to only pay the top 3, 5, 10 or even 20 places? NO
Does every race need to be a PRO only event, that doesn't support amateur racers and clubs? NO
Does every race have to have over 400+ entries to be a great event? NO
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we get your take on it George. If money is awarded regularly the sky will fall and RC racing will implode into nothing........
I disagree with you 110%.
You should open your mind and realize this is a perfect opprotunity to adopt proven methods and ideas formed in other forms of motorsport and bring them into RC racing. While lots of things in RC racing are GREAT. There are quite a few that could use an update......
A regular "PRO" class represents a significate change in the future of RC racing. If done properly, change is good. I think the series is a prime example of positive change.
Your negativity is amazing.
Does every money race have to be $100 entry fee? NO
Does every money race have to only pay the top 3, 5, 10 or even 20 places? NO
Does every race need to be a PRO only event, that doesn't support amateur racers and clubs? NO
Does every race have to have over 400+ entries to be a great event? NO
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we get your take on it George. If money is awarded regularly the sky will fall and RC racing will implode into nothing........
I disagree with you 110%.
You should open your mind and realize this is a perfect opprotunity to adopt proven methods and ideas formed in other forms of motorsport and bring them into RC racing. While lots of things in RC racing are GREAT. There are quite a few that could use an update......
A regular "PRO" class represents a significate change in the future of RC racing. If done properly, change is good. I think the series is a prime example of positive change.
07-01-2004, 12:17 PM
#42
Jon Sterling(Poops) you were there ?
No wonder !! gee! wiz !...
I will leave you guys alone, I only was trying to point out to you`s better ways in promoting this sport...
Pm me if you wish ....
later.....
No wonder !! gee! wiz !...
I will leave you guys alone, I only was trying to point out to you`s better ways in promoting this sport...
Pm me if you wish ....
later.....
07-01-2004, 12:59 PM
#43
at the begining of the thread you guys ask for coments on the money racing topic
now that george has brought up some thoughts you guys
are really doging him instead of sitting back taking it all in..
and learning how to make a good raceweekend out of it..
there are 92 1/8th scale drivers listed in the points race this season
the idea i believe is best to concentrate on,
is to try to keep the bottom half of total drivers there
the top 20 will always race cause thats what they enjoy
the top 10 usually are in the top 10 at the finish
its like the lotto everyone dreams of winning but really
how many of you guys have beat McCreary or Newspeed
Dana you dont count but stop #1 was sweet racing!
they are both sponsered drivers same with Dana
its nice to pay the top guys but they are almost always at the top anyway
enjoying the glory..
just a thought guys... this thread should be for leaning
there could be lots of guys that feel the same way as george and maybee there aint
I would like to see the payout amounts listed down the line from 1st to werever you cut it off
I know you cant guess how many entries but you could figure it from let say
50 entries
100 entries
150
200 so on..
to give us a idea what kinda money were talkin
wouldnt that be a flip if you guys paid it oposite 1st the least
last the most
that would really give back some of the money the lower half of the racers put in but never win
..you could also take the money and everyone gets a ticket that enters and 1 by1 draw from last money prize to first money prize during sundays main event that would be kewl!!
everyone has a fair chance at winning the biggest amout
not by how good you are ..now thats a payout
it wouldnt be McCreary
Schull
Newspeed
Dana
at the top..of the winnings every time...
anyway these are just some thoughts
TURBO JOHNNY
now that george has brought up some thoughts you guys
are really doging him instead of sitting back taking it all in..
and learning how to make a good raceweekend out of it..
there are 92 1/8th scale drivers listed in the points race this season
the idea i believe is best to concentrate on,
is to try to keep the bottom half of total drivers there
the top 20 will always race cause thats what they enjoy
the top 10 usually are in the top 10 at the finish
its like the lotto everyone dreams of winning but really
how many of you guys have beat McCreary or Newspeed
Dana you dont count but stop #1 was sweet racing!
they are both sponsered drivers same with Dana
its nice to pay the top guys but they are almost always at the top anyway
enjoying the glory..
just a thought guys... this thread should be for leaning
there could be lots of guys that feel the same way as george and maybee there aint
I would like to see the payout amounts listed down the line from 1st to werever you cut it off
I know you cant guess how many entries but you could figure it from let say
50 entries
100 entries
150
200 so on..
to give us a idea what kinda money were talkin
wouldnt that be a flip if you guys paid it oposite 1st the least
last the most
that would really give back some of the money the lower half of the racers put in but never win
..you could also take the money and everyone gets a ticket that enters and 1 by1 draw from last money prize to first money prize during sundays main event that would be kewl!!
everyone has a fair chance at winning the biggest amout
not by how good you are ..now thats a payout
it wouldnt be McCreary
Schull
Newspeed
Dana
at the top..of the winnings every time...
anyway these are just some thoughts
TURBO JOHNNY
07-01-2004, 01:23 PM
#44
OH! BUT JOHNNY!
We're hiring tonya harding to break their kneecaps if they pass anyone. and also, she'll take care of the hackers!!
you do have interesting points to ponder............
you could have numbered envelopes with different amounts of cash in them, somehow the winner/loser matches his ticket to the envelope and wins whatever is in it.
Does the higher you place give you more tickets?
We're hiring tonya harding to break their kneecaps if they pass anyone. and also, she'll take care of the hackers!!
you do have interesting points to ponder............
you could have numbered envelopes with different amounts of cash in them, somehow the winner/loser matches his ticket to the envelope and wins whatever is in it.
Does the higher you place give you more tickets?
07-01-2004, 01:43 PM
#45
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (51)
I don't think this thread was meant to be connected to the Northwest Champs tour.
But....
If the series had a true "PRO" class.. maybe it would relieve some of the disparity turbo johnny is talking about?
I think a true "PRO" 1/8th scale and gas truck is needed next year.
Again - with rules and criteria for who could run "Pro". Maybe if the top 20 series points winners from this year before HAD to bump to "PRO", with certain race events having money purses only for the "PRO" class. Then any A-main winner (or top 3)throughout next year could bump as well. You could also set a specific "PRO" qualifying time so that anyone could bump to pro on any giving weekend - it wouldn't be an easy bump.
This could also prevent new drivers from having to run with the really fast guys and give some of the drivers who consistently show up to events the chance to make themselves better or just continue to race without having to compete against the deep pockets.
When you finally get good enough to run in "PRO" it will be a feather in your cap and you should have the confidence to compete with these guys.
I havn't been in an A-Main yet in Gas Truck or 1/8 scale, but I'm learning and getting faster every week. I talk to Mike Dana a lot about set-up and I try to pick the of the spokane guys - their motors scream. I've had Northwest RC go over my engine...... I want to win Dammit. But when I finally do - it will be sweet!! I'm not going anywhere - regarless of where I finish in the points.
Turbo - I've already discussed your idea with TSB and Mike Dana earlier this year. I think your right, they whole strength of the series does not lie within the top 10, but within ALL 200 entries every weekend. I think Mike is considering random prizes to people who have attended a minumum number of events. Don't quote me on that.
But....
If the series had a true "PRO" class.. maybe it would relieve some of the disparity turbo johnny is talking about?
I think a true "PRO" 1/8th scale and gas truck is needed next year.
Again - with rules and criteria for who could run "Pro". Maybe if the top 20 series points winners from this year before HAD to bump to "PRO", with certain race events having money purses only for the "PRO" class. Then any A-main winner (or top 3)throughout next year could bump as well. You could also set a specific "PRO" qualifying time so that anyone could bump to pro on any giving weekend - it wouldn't be an easy bump.
This could also prevent new drivers from having to run with the really fast guys and give some of the drivers who consistently show up to events the chance to make themselves better or just continue to race without having to compete against the deep pockets.
When you finally get good enough to run in "PRO" it will be a feather in your cap and you should have the confidence to compete with these guys.
I havn't been in an A-Main yet in Gas Truck or 1/8 scale, but I'm learning and getting faster every week. I talk to Mike Dana a lot about set-up and I try to pick the of the spokane guys - their motors scream. I've had Northwest RC go over my engine...... I want to win Dammit. But when I finally do - it will be sweet!! I'm not going anywhere - regarless of where I finish in the points.
Turbo - I've already discussed your idea with TSB and Mike Dana earlier this year. I think your right, they whole strength of the series does not lie within the top 10, but within ALL 200 entries every weekend. I think Mike is considering random prizes to people who have attended a minumum number of events. Don't quote me on that.