OB42TC3

I had heard that something along those lines was going on in Michigan, so your post is not surprising. Crap like that will ruin a class in a hurry because nobody who runs fair will come out and compete. On a side note, unless you have proof like this, don't accuse people of cheating or start rumors when maybe they just know a hell of lot about motors or got a good one. I have a monster stock that runs better than most 19t and guess what people say.

fatovalguy

Big block stocks is that like big block chevys. I think stock is fun but if you cant drive than worrying about everybody elses motors is foolish

CRASH

iTrader: (26)

He ran a 19turn arm in a stock motor can. He was like in the E or something main.

Later,

fatovalguy

Crash is that the Big block stock.

Cole Trickle

Well spoken.

About motivation, maybe the thrill is to see if one can do it, without being catched? Or maybe they are desperate to get some nice attention, if they win?

But I dont understand it anyway. To me, this hobby is about having fun with the cars and the other people. If one cheat, one loose the respect from the other people. And then the fun is gone... Besides, it's much more exciting to race, if rules are equal. There might be more status about being in the A-main, but it's definately fun to run every classes. I still remember my first race many years ago.... great fun and excitement.

Mike F

It's a question of integrity for the hobby. We shouldn't reward those that cheat by placing them in the MOD class but reward those that don't cheat by banning the cheater from the track.

It's tuff to actually police this because as some of you have stated, some motors are better than others, maybe not but better tuned then others. I also have a BigJim P2K motor and half way through last season someone asked me what I had in my TC3 and I told them. What they failed to realize is that this was the same motor I have been running all season. I changed the brushes every now and then but it was like I couldn't possibly be faster than he was so I had to be cheating. He didn't come straight out and said that but that's the impression I got from him. So the perception will always be there if your fast or have a great day, you must be cheating.

If you win because you cheated, are you really a winner?

dux

I think that tracks should enact a new rule: any cheater will have their motor smashed by the community motor-smashing-hammer
*whack*

gotpez

One fear I have of this topic is the false accusations that happen.

We had a very fast driver that I know show up to race. He went out and ran and quickly beat my track record by nearly two laps. Very quickly one of the local racers pulled me to the side and told me they thought he was cheating. I quickly set the record straight. Not that I like having my record bested by two laps, but I know that this driver would never cheat.

The locals seemed to be of the opinion that nobody could be that much faster than us. The driver that pulled me aside does not attend any of the large national level events. He was not aware of how fast some drivers are.

Sometimes it may be a good idea for the track owner to do a tech inspection on a fast driver just to stop any false accusations. I've seen this done before and it can help the frustrated racers to feel they are not being cheated against.

Jeff Gilligan

CRASH

iTrader: (26)

Here at our track the fast guys have no problem with you teching thier motors and have been known to sell the motor right out of their car. It is amazing how fast a smooth driver and a good legit motor can be.

Charlie

I though this was kinda interesting, I see all your points about cheaters, and I hate'em just as much as anybody. But with Mikes' post about a "hand wound" stock motor you guys might be interested in a little known R/C fact. I'm not up to date with the latest version of a rule book for our "hobby" but the last one I saw did not state a Stock motor needed to be machine wound. So long as you meet the dimensions for the can, the retail price, and get it approved it's a "legal" motor. The Technical part of the rule only reffers to the wire size and number of turns. Not the shape of the arm/rotors or how it's wound. So the rule is pretty broad considering what it's supposed to do.

Well I just thought that would interesting and add R/C knowhow to some. It may be different in the current rules but I don't think they changed anything major.

Happy Racing
Charlie

Mike F

Very interesting point Charlie

Steevo

I think most of you have hit the nail on the head as to why some guys feel the need to cheat and what should be done to them when caught.
Personally I think that these cheaters have low self esteem and are seeking some admiration and recognition from their fellow racers. These are probably people who feel inadequate and generally fail in life.
I would get infinately more satisfaction in knowing that I have won a race through good driving skills, a well set up car and a "LEGALLY" tuned and tweaked motor.

Any numb nut can throw in a lower turn arm and be faster in a straight line than a LEGAL stock motor, but it takes a lot of precision and expertise to align those brush hoods properly and choose the best brush/spring combination and cut and tru the comm to perfection. For me that is what makes this hobby the most rewarding. In the end if I cut an extra few 10ths of a second off my personal best lap time due to tuning and driving Improvements thats as good as winning.

I think suspected cheaters in Stock racing should be monitored by the clubs regulating parties and the driver involved should be subjected to random motor checks and if caught cheating they should be banned from the club for one season for the first offence. (second offence should receive an Indefinate Ban) Other clubs should be notified of people who are caught cheating and left to make their own decision on whether to allow the offender to participate in their clubs racing.

In the end no one should be labelled a cheater unless they have been subject to scrutiny by the club and evidence has been found to substanciate the suspicions.
Just my 2 cents worth

Steevo

andrew5

there was this one race i was lapped then the leader breaks and everyone starts dropping out like files. so everyone calls me a cheater i was so pissed. just cuase i won i must have cheated

MarkA

iTrader: (21)

I dunno what ROAR officially says but under NORRCA rule GE.10 for "Stock Armatures", it states, “Machine wound armatures only, no hand wound stock armatures permitted.”

popsracer

I have personally seen how much faster a Professionally Hand tuned Stocker can go. No one (I know of) accused this guy of cheating because we all know him and he was up front about the motor being Hand Tuned by Big Jim.

As to the Monitoring, most clubs neither have the time, expertise or willingness to tech "Questionable" Motors, and for the most part, the Racers will be the Judge and Jury.