World GT Body Debate Thread
03-10-2009, 04:29 PM
#166
I disagree with that comment. This class had been given as much thought as VTA was. Have you looked at the VTA scene lately? It has it's growing pains, and lack of limitations has the POTENTIAL to kill that class as well. Why is it that you can go to the classifieds section of this very forum and find X-ray 009 chassis fully outfitted and being sold specifically for VTA. That is a $500+ sedan chassis. It definitely doesn't fit in with the intent of the class. IMO on that one is that it should be plastic tub chassis only. At some point, most sedan mfgs had a plastic tub chassis, and those are the only ones that should be allowed.
Agreed also.
I think the VTA could have a bigger following if it weren't for the fact that people feel pressured to have the latest and greatest platform to compete, it's not hard to figure out what the fast guys have, and to me it would have more of a vintage feel if the cars would actually have to be vintage instead of just looking vintage.
The only thing vintage about the class now is the bodies.
But if people had somewhere in which they could throw down their old tub chassis TCs, and not feel they were being outclasses or outspent before getting to the track, the class would have more room to grow as well as attracting the lowbudget racer.
I think the VTA could have a bigger following if it weren't for the fact that people feel pressured to have the latest and greatest platform to compete, it's not hard to figure out what the fast guys have, and to me it would have more of a vintage feel if the cars would actually have to be vintage instead of just looking vintage.
The only thing vintage about the class now is the bodies.
But if people had somewhere in which they could throw down their old tub chassis TCs, and not feel they were being outclasses or outspent before getting to the track, the class would have more room to grow as well as attracting the lowbudget racer.
A. Do they have VTA at your track?
B. Where are you racing?
I still see tons of TC3/4 cars, XXXS cars, cheaper tamiyas like TBo2s, etc. Also, I can name 2 guys who have laid some beatdowns on 20-30 car fields with TA05s.
I have a TC5. I race it because it is what I had when I tried Trans Am. Yes, the older cars are not as adjustable, but the ROAR regional I was just at had a couple guys running competitive times with TC3s.
New/expensive cars are not necessary. Track time is.
03-10-2009, 05:51 PM
#167
Hi HarryN-
I'm on your side as well as the others who like the realism in RC racing. I've always gone to great lengths to do extensive detail on my personal cars. I've won many Concours events in the past.
I also try to keep as much realism in our body molds as possible too.....
BUT....as I indicated in my previous post, there's no real regulation on body appearence in any form of RC racing that I'm aware of, so knowing where things will go, I went with the flow on the ferrari body. I have to say that the photo angles can be deceiving sometimes and photos from certain angles will show our body isn't as far off as some are indicating. Unfortunately I didn't have a Ferrari 599 sitting in my driveway to get all the shapes perfect. There may not be one within 1000 miles of Flagstaff Arizona.lol
BTW Harry, what part of Maryland are you from? My hometown is Hagerstown.
Gary McAllister
I'm on your side as well as the others who like the realism in RC racing. I've always gone to great lengths to do extensive detail on my personal cars. I've won many Concours events in the past.
I also try to keep as much realism in our body molds as possible too.....
BUT....as I indicated in my previous post, there's no real regulation on body appearence in any form of RC racing that I'm aware of, so knowing where things will go, I went with the flow on the ferrari body. I have to say that the photo angles can be deceiving sometimes and photos from certain angles will show our body isn't as far off as some are indicating. Unfortunately I didn't have a Ferrari 599 sitting in my driveway to get all the shapes perfect. There may not be one within 1000 miles of Flagstaff Arizona.lol
BTW Harry, what part of Maryland are you from? My hometown is Hagerstown.
Gary McAllister
03-10-2009, 08:20 PM
#168
Hi HarryN-
I'm on your side as well as the others who like the realism in RC racing. I've always gone to great lengths to do extensive detail on my personal cars. I've won many Concours events in the past.
I also try to keep as much realism in our body molds as possible too.....
BUT....as I indicated in my previous post, there's no real regulation on body appearence in any form of RC racing that I'm aware of, so knowing where things will go, I went with the flow on the ferrari body. I have to say that the photo angles can be deceiving sometimes and photos from certain angles will show our body isn't as far off as some are indicating. Unfortunately I didn't have a Ferrari 599 sitting in my driveway to get all the shapes perfect. There may not be one within 1000 miles of Flagstaff Arizona.lol
BTW Harry, what part of Maryland are you from? My hometown is Hagerstown.
Gary McAllister
I'm on your side as well as the others who like the realism in RC racing. I've always gone to great lengths to do extensive detail on my personal cars. I've won many Concours events in the past.
I also try to keep as much realism in our body molds as possible too.....
BUT....as I indicated in my previous post, there's no real regulation on body appearence in any form of RC racing that I'm aware of, so knowing where things will go, I went with the flow on the ferrari body. I have to say that the photo angles can be deceiving sometimes and photos from certain angles will show our body isn't as far off as some are indicating. Unfortunately I didn't have a Ferrari 599 sitting in my driveway to get all the shapes perfect. There may not be one within 1000 miles of Flagstaff Arizona.lol
BTW Harry, what part of Maryland are you from? My hometown is Hagerstown.
Gary McAllister
My dad works in Hagerstown! But I live in Silver Spring. Born and raised, possibly die here too.
I am at the lovely point where the beltway is a stone throw away, and close to everywhere. Did you come on by the Grand Slam series at The Track in Gaithersburg, MD? I was stuck in the tech pit because I was DQ'ed from racing. Don't ask. What kind of cars do you do concours events in? Classical? Modern? What car?
As far as the body, I honestly think if you stubbed the nose just a wee bit, it would still be functional. Same to Dale Epp with the Sophia GT. It would look more like the original than anything.
But if you read some of the posts here, I think people are content with not being blazingly fast as the wedge bodies allow us. We just enjoy the sheer fact that they look like the real cars and we can drive them well enough to complete a heat/main. Take a look at VTA. A lot of those cars are not blazingly fast. But if you saw the race I did at The Track for the Grand Slam series, everyone had huge smiles on their faces and loved every single bit of the race. You look at the other classes with unrealistic bodies, people had super serious looks on their faces as if they're holding "prairie dogging" in their butt cracks while talking to a smoking hot chick (sorry for the visual here, but it was the best way I could describe how serious they looked on the driver's stand).
The reasoning we share is if rules are made in stone about REALISTIC (proportions and all) only, the thoughts about going super fast and whatnot would all be about setup. People will accept the fact that real race bodies will be needed and be done with it. The rest is up to the racer. Just like the super awesome VTA class.
And yes, we understand retooling dyes and such is costly and making realistic bodies is quite risky in case the class suddenly disappears off the face of the earth. That is why we're hoping companies such as yours, Protoform, and Parma respect the majority of our wishes and keep to realism. And no I, personally, am not blaming this all on McAllister Racing, Parma, or Protoform. I believe Jaco and other pan car tire makers need to think about making wheels more to scale. I am 100% sure they can. I understand the costs involved, but it is an investment worth making as we're always buying tires.
I've said it once before but I believe it is worth mentioning again; I sincerely appreciate what Protoform, Parma, and your company are doing. Your efforts came out wonderful. And I would really support a mod class that uses these bodies. But in the true nature of why a lot of us in the 200mm pan cars choose real bodies is because we love the scaled realism.
03-10-2009, 08:51 PM
#169
I like this class because it's a pan car class. I don't like TC but drove it because that was the only thing going.The argument about the price of a world Gt kit and TC translated to years ago. The price of a pan car and the off road cars.Now it's pan cars and TC. Bodys have always been a problem with realism.Back in the day with 1/12th scale and 1/10th scale and the huge clear wings we hung on the back. These new bodies do look better with the wings. Were not going to get the speed of those old 235mm wide pan cars. And most of the people really could not handle the speed. Running these new bodies with 1 cell lipos and a 13.5 motor is fine with me.
03-11-2009, 12:47 AM
#170
Just got back from the track tonight where Bruce Carbone of Speedmerchant was testing the new Parma body and I have to say it looks excellent to me. I thought the pictures posted online didn't do it justice, great detail and I find it quite easy to identify. A certain racer who shall remain nameless actually said "It looks like a James Bond car!" when he first got a look at it, after a short silence we gave him a little chuckle and joked about how close it really is.
Honestly though, I think everyone went off the deep end with this, if a racer can walk in and identify with the body from something they saw on the movie screen it's real enough. Granted we are talking the difference between a DB9 and the DBS but come on, that's pretty impressive.
Nick
Honestly though, I think everyone went off the deep end with this, if a racer can walk in and identify with the body from something they saw on the movie screen it's real enough. Granted we are talking the difference between a DB9 and the DBS but come on, that's pretty impressive.
Nick
03-11-2009, 05:41 AM
#171
Just got back from the track tonight where Bruce Carbone of Speedmerchant was testing the new Parma body and I have to say it looks excellent to me. I thought the pictures posted online didn't do it justice, great detail and I find it quite easy to identify. A certain racer who shall remain nameless actually said "It looks like a James Bond car!" when he first got a look at it, after a short silence we gave him a little chuckle and joked about how close it really is.
Honestly though, I think everyone went off the deep end with this, if a racer can walk in and identify with the body from something they saw on the movie screen it's real enough. Granted we are talking the difference between a DB9 and the DBS but come on, that's pretty impressive.
Nick
Honestly though, I think everyone went off the deep end with this, if a racer can walk in and identify with the body from something they saw on the movie screen it's real enough. Granted we are talking the difference between a DB9 and the DBS but come on, that's pretty impressive.
Nick
Glad your post clarified it wasn't.But nice picture.
03-11-2009, 09:25 AM
#172
Suspended
I didn't think so.
Which takes up back to the same old dead-horse argument that's less applicable as time goes by and more guys feel the need to have the latest steed to be competitive, and I won't even get into the lipo and brushless that you're now running, track time or no track time. If your argument was valid every one of you would have sold off your new car or reverted to an older model because you saw no need in a high tech TC5 or Xray009.
Anyway, sorry about the threadjack..... back to topic.
03-11-2009, 10:00 AM
#173
Just got back from the track tonight where Bruce Carbone of Speedmerchant was testing the new Parma body and I have to say it looks excellent to me. I thought the pictures posted online didn't do it justice, great detail and I find it quite easy to identify. A certain racer who shall remain nameless actually said "It looks like a James Bond car!" when he first got a look at it, after a short silence we gave him a little chuckle and joked about how close it really is.
Honestly though, I think everyone went off the deep end with this, if a racer can walk in and identify with the body from something they saw on the movie screen it's real enough. Granted we are talking the difference between a DB9 and the DBS but come on, that's pretty impressive.
Nick
Honestly though, I think everyone went off the deep end with this, if a racer can walk in and identify with the body from something they saw on the movie screen it's real enough. Granted we are talking the difference between a DB9 and the DBS but come on, that's pretty impressive.
Nick
Wow, that Aston looks nice....
03-11-2009, 10:02 AM
#174
03-11-2009, 10:29 AM
#176
Actually, I'll go take a pic of one of my cars at that angle and post it. Then you can say you are right and I can say you are wrong
03-11-2009, 11:22 AM
#178
03-11-2009, 01:08 PM
#179
OK, sorry this isn't perfect but its good enough for the purpose. To me the Aston is totally identifiable as an Aston and the Sophia looks like an Alfa. Not exact scale renditions, to be sure, but that is not the intent. As long as bodies that get approved in the future do not get more radical than this I'm very happy with the looks as well as the performance. I'm sure if a field of these bodies was painted in scale racing schemes they would look pretty cool as well.
IMO this discussion has reached the point where we are going to have to agree to disagree. Some of us are happy with the original intent of the class and subsequent body designs and others want to steer it in more of a scale realism direction. Both are valid ideas, but for me I prefer a racing class with race bodies
03-11-2009, 01:43 PM
#180
I dunno... they both look very similar. Robk is good at resizing images, I am sure he will do a better job and show how similar they are. The only difference is the front end (ever so slightly).
As far as agree to disagree, I wish that was so, but we're trying to make sure that this class remains "realistic" and is enforced in the rules. Otherwise, I'd love to agree to disagree.