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Old 03-04-2009, 07:56 AM   #1
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Default World GT Body Debate Thread

Ok apparently it was mentioned in another discussion to have a separate thread for debating bodies for this particular class So I decided to take the initiative and start one.


What has spawned this discussion in the release of the Protoform Sophia and the Parma DB-9 bodies. Many people are decrying these bodies because they are not deemed as realistic representations of actual cars raced in actual racing series, but are "doorstop" bodies that take away from the spirit of the World GT class.

I see the need to have bodies that handle well and what not but my personal thought here is maybe having bodies that dont necessarily handle as well is the ticket if it will keep this class fun and inclusive to as many people as possible and grow WGT at the grassroots level. Now it is unfortunate that at the club level people are more worried about performance than realism and at the national level (particularly among the big name drivers) its about realism over performance. There needs to be some sort of reconciliation of these two and I do think that the person most capable of bridging the gap is the one who really springboarded this class in the USA in the first place, Mr Scotty Ernst founder of the International Indoor Championships.

Ive said my piece...alright boys let the debate begin...please keep it clean and keep it civil.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:08 AM   #2
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I would guess most people responding don't do anything more then club racing. Why not adjust the rules for your club for the ultra-realistic bodies if that's your thing? The bodies that will come out for this point further will be whatever handles best and is fastest under the rules set forth. That's just the way racing is.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:10 AM   #3
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Last edited by or8ital; 03-04-2009 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:29 AM   #4
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I have a Sophia, but agree that there is no race version of this car, the Alfa 8C, as the body suggests. In the truest sense of the word, this is a made up body. It is currently considered legal on the World GT rules site and by far the most popular body. Aerodynamics for this shell are very good in comparison to other offerings by Parma, Protoform and HPI. Again the dimensions of the body are fairly accurate, but not exact to the production coupe. I think only HPI comes close to true replica dimensions for most if not all of their bodies.

Again, this is my opinion.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
I would guess most people responding don't do anything more then club racing. Why not adjust the rules for your club for the ultra-realistic bodies if that's your thing? The bodies that will come out for this point further will be whatever handles best and is fastest under the rules set forth. That's just the way racing is.
That is what I am going to be pitching at my track. I do not want to "diss" Parma or Protoform as I think the bodies they have designed are absolutely great and very functional.

As Dale mentioned, in order to make more realistic bodies work, we should look at the tire diameters. They play a key role as well. With lower cut tire diameters, the Sophie and the Parma DB-9 bodies should work very well. But on larger and more realistic bodies like the ones made by HPI and Tamiya, I think Dale's argument is they will not work.

There may be more rules to adjust than meets the eye here, aside from tire diameter. I think possibly ride height as well? Weight? Bumpers? Just throwing ideas out here.

This is my two cents. I hope this thread does not turn into a flame war, but more of a functional and constructive criticism of current rules or lack thereof.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:04 AM   #6
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I see it like this, this was supposed to be a GT style body class. That being said the fronts of the cars are a little more box like or blunt. The Corvette from protoform was good, the front was a little long but that can't be helped due to the dimensions of the chassis. When the fronts of the cars started sloping down like on the Sophia, Mcallister Ferrari, and DB9 it started the trend going back to GTP type cars. I know the bodies are designed for ultimate performance and all but in GT it should be less about the body and more about the setup. I really appreciate these manufacturers taking the time to come on here and explain themselves for going the direction they have as do not have to do that. Dale's explanation makes it a clearer for me, but I still do not like the direction the bodies are headed.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:29 AM   #7
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The underlying problem (more widespread then bodies) is there seems to be two types of folks in RC. The hobbyists and the racers. The hobbyists tend to be the ones that want the realistic bodies and want to race with other hobbyists. The racer wants what is fastest and are always preparing for the next big race. When they mix is when you have the problem. The first group screams about the price, lack of realism, batteries of the week, changing technology, etc. The racers, if forced to run under hobbyist rules, complain about not being able to prepare for big races by using a different set of rules. Neither group is necessarily wrong in the line of thinking. It's just that you can't please everyone. Every debate thread IMHO seems to come down to those two sides in the end. Just my .02.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
The underlying problem (more widespread then bodies) is there seems to be two types of folks in RC. The hobbyists and the racers. The hobbyists tend to be the ones that want the realistic bodies and want to race with other hobbyists. The racer wants what is fastest and are always preparing for the next big race. When they mix is when you have the problem. The first group screams about the price, lack of realism, batteries of the week, changing technology, etc. The racers, if forced to run under hobbyist rules, complain about not being able to prepare for big races by using a different set of rules. Neither group is necessarily wrong in the line of thinking. It's just that you can't please everyone. Every debate thread IMHO seems to come down to those two sides in the end. Just my .02.
Well if that is the case and the racer is worried about losing a race, perhaps we should go to ROAR? Perhaps have the wedge bodies for mod racing, and the realistic bodies for stock and super stock racing?
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
The underlying problem (more widespread then bodies) is there seems to be two types of folks in RC. The hobbyists and the racers. The hobbyists tend to be the ones that want the realistic bodies and want to race with other hobbyists. The racer wants what is fastest and are always preparing for the next big race. When they mix is when you have the problem. The first group screams about the price, lack of realism, batteries of the week, changing technology, etc. The racers, if forced to run under hobbyist rules, complain about not being able to prepare for big races by using a different set of rules. Neither group is necessarily wrong in the line of thinking. It's just that you can't please everyone. Every debate thread IMHO seems to come down to those two sides in the end. Just my .02.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:39 AM   #10
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Tim this is the wisest thing you gave ever written!!!
+1
agreed.......but where do you fall?? I'm stuck in between right now....
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:48 AM   #11
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+1
agreed.......but where do you fall?? I'm stuck in between right now....
I would say Im a hobbyist that wants to go fast . Im really OK racing with either group as long as its the same set of rules and the most people possible are happy. I would say locally THS tends to cater to hobbyists and TS to racers. Both are fun, just different.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:49 AM   #12
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Tim this is the wisest thing you gave ever written!!!
Every squirell finds a nut every once in a while. I felt inspired I guess.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:55 AM   #13
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This is a GT class full stop.

Now i am from britain and will be pushing really hard to make sure that the DB9 and the Sophia are not recognised as legal bodies, as they are not reasonable representations of WGT race cars.

I've been running the Corvette C6R for almost a year now and find that with the proper chasis setup and tyre choice you end up with an awsome handling car.

Just my 2 pence
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:09 AM   #14
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+1
agreed.......but where do you fall?? I'm stuck in between right now....
I do not care about a scale look of anything. I am a racer and do not care one thing about full size racing.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:14 AM   #15
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I am less worried about the bodies and more worried about all the 4-cell cars out there..I would like this class to go lipo 2s




regarding the bodies, doesn't it cost more for the companies to make a real car body than a made up one???
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