what happems when brushless takes over?
09-08-2006, 05:48 AM
#121
Originally Posted by timmay70
Top speed is not the only limitation of the motor/controller combo. There are a significant amount of brushless systems on the market that people fault the control-ability factor. If top speed was the only thing that people worried about, we could put sensors on both brushed and brushless motors and demand mfg's to put an rpm limiter on motors. Volia - you now have equality between technologies. However, we all know that will not be the solution.
Controller tech for these motors goes as far as traction control and real time anti-lock breaking. There are tons of things that could and are being controlled through the esc units. I have nothing against that, either. It's just a different style racing.
Controller tech for these motors goes as far as traction control and real time anti-lock breaking. There are tons of things that could and are being controlled through the esc units. I have nothing against that, either. It's just a different style racing.
You still can't go any faster than the RPM rating of the motor...
09-08-2006, 06:28 AM
#122
Tech Addict
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
There is room for brushed motors. Sorta like the people you know that refuse to get an ATM card and still have a bankbook. Better yet, the people who STILL don't have direct deposit. Or people who drive to work everyday but refuse to get an EZ-Pass. There is a snail line for people like that. So, until these people come on board, quit (or die), there will always be room for the archaic er um ahem, those who choose to run brushed.
Brushed motors will not die. They're too simple and too cheap. You can connect battery straight to brushed motor and it will turn. If you try that with brushless you ruin the motor. The cheapest RTR kits will always come with brushed motors.
09-08-2006, 07:55 AM
#123
Tech Master
BL system on RTR
Originally Posted by andsetinn
The cheapest RTR kits will always come with brushed motors.
XXXT RTR
well the XXXT RTR comes standard with a BL system, it aint the cheapest out there for an RTR but it's a good start for what we would expect in the future ...
CE!
09-08-2006, 08:19 AM
#125
You can buy a cheap alignment tool for $10, which is still used on some mods.....lathe, one time purchase, which is used in modified also....don't need a dyno (please note signature....no dyno was with me at any of those events)....though, Dyno STILL would be used in modified also...
The guy was referring to RTR motors and the like....DC brushed motors are a much simpler device than a brushless motor is.....if your speed control blew up, you could go to radio shack and get a micro-switch and get the thing to run.....you can't do that with a brushless motor...
And traction control could be developed, just ask Oscar from Orion.....he has spent quite a bit of time researching it....it however, would not be as effective as one with a sensor on each wheel....
Later EddieO
The guy was referring to RTR motors and the like....DC brushed motors are a much simpler device than a brushless motor is.....if your speed control blew up, you could go to radio shack and get a micro-switch and get the thing to run.....you can't do that with a brushless motor...
And traction control could be developed, just ask Oscar from Orion.....he has spent quite a bit of time researching it....it however, would not be as effective as one with a sensor on each wheel....
Later EddieO
09-08-2006, 08:29 AM
#126
Originally Posted by EddieO
And traction control could be developed, just ask Oscar from Orion.....he has spent quite a bit of time researching it....it however, would not be as effective as one with a sensor on each wheel....
Later EddieO
TC's on almost every surface are point and shoot... I race foams on carpet and I rarely even need to sauce the tires...
Even bashing on the street on crappy rubber tires I can gun it on any surface and launch completely straight...
Brushed motors have much better brakes than Brushless so brushless does have ABS... hahahah.....
09-08-2006, 08:39 AM
#127
Not a big issue in foam touring.....but in modified rubber touring, the guys can get the tires to spin quite easy...on low grip surfaces, even the 19t and stock cars can have issues.....traction control could be effective in just about all the rubber classes on lots of tracks.....go to a national event and watch....
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
09-08-2006, 08:50 AM
#128
eddie your wrong, wrong wrong, point and shoot is the only way anyone as ever won any sedan race, point and shoot, corner speed is way over rated, good lines, ah don't be silly, point and shoot baby, thats what i'm taking about. heck you just had nationals, everyone was pointing and shooting, (ok just me and we know how that turned out lol).. have fun with this guys.
09-08-2006, 08:52 AM
#129
Hi Chris, Interested in some brushless? Hmmm...
09-08-2006, 08:57 AM
#130
I love just having to worried about my car's handling characteristics instead of cutting comm's and replacing brushes. I've learned a ton on car setup changes since I purchase my brushless system. The power is pretty much constant which makes for more accurate suspension changes.
09-08-2006, 09:01 AM
#131
Originally Posted by EddieO
Not a big issue in foam touring.....but in modified rubber touring, the guys can get the tires to spin quite easy...on low grip surfaces, even the 19t and stock cars can have issues.....traction control could be effective in just about all the rubber classes on lots of tracks.....go to a national event and watch....
Later EddieO
Later EddieO
and it would be just as easy to put that feature on a high end esc. Most esc's already have punch control and dash mode.
As for replacing the micro switch on standard ESC for RTR. I don't know one person who has purchased an RTR that would know to even do that.
09-08-2006, 10:32 AM
#132
A class for Casual racers will be possible
Some people really love to work on their cars. I enjoy it but it can old eventually.
A lot of us would like to spend more time racing our cars and less time working one them. The 5 hours a week maintenance +5 hours at the track for 20 minutes racing model doesn't work for everyone.
A lot of people including myself would prefer the extra race time 10 minute heats would provide and the ability to put our car in a box after a race and not take it out until the next race. In addition the savings of only needing one motor and one battery.
--------------------------------------------------------
Brushless Li-Po is part of what is needed to simplify things and reduce the maintenance requirements.
The other 2 elements which are needed
A spec tire of some sort with a very low wear rate.
and most importantly a reduction in crash related damage.
I think the later would need changes in three areas
1. Models or versions of current models designed for maximum durability.
including crash worthiness, diffs and drive train durability improved front and side bumpers
2. Car friendly tracks with softer rails or cushioning at key places around the track
3. Significant reduction in speed.
Essentially the car should be able to hit the barrier at the end of the long straightaway and not break.
A lot of us would like to spend more time racing our cars and less time working one them. The 5 hours a week maintenance +5 hours at the track for 20 minutes racing model doesn't work for everyone.
A lot of people including myself would prefer the extra race time 10 minute heats would provide and the ability to put our car in a box after a race and not take it out until the next race. In addition the savings of only needing one motor and one battery.
--------------------------------------------------------
Brushless Li-Po is part of what is needed to simplify things and reduce the maintenance requirements.
The other 2 elements which are needed
A spec tire of some sort with a very low wear rate.
and most importantly a reduction in crash related damage.
I think the later would need changes in three areas
1. Models or versions of current models designed for maximum durability.
including crash worthiness, diffs and drive train durability improved front and side bumpers
2. Car friendly tracks with softer rails or cushioning at key places around the track
3. Significant reduction in speed.
Essentially the car should be able to hit the barrier at the end of the long straightaway and not break.
09-08-2006, 10:43 AM
#133
http://www.teamtrinity.com/shop/kits/tspec.html
Here you go, have fun.
Or this
http://www.forzamotorsport.net/
Here you go, have fun.
Or this
http://www.forzamotorsport.net/
09-08-2006, 10:44 AM
#134
Am I the only one in the universe who likes stock the way it is? I bought lathe a long time ago, its fine. I have a cheap alignment bar which I honestly don't use that much, and I get more life than I could ever want out of a brushed stock motor. Furthermore, F brushes last for friggin' ever, they are relatively easy on the comm and fast. I cut motors in club racing once a day. Not a big deal.
Stock brushed feels good, the power band, the response to throttle input. Everytime I've driven one of the slower brushless meant to compete with stock/19t, (ie the 4300 etc), it feels lousy and I can't drive it comfortably or well. It's like the driving a brushed motor with your radio's throttle expo all screwed up and the profile on the esc messed up.
I'm sure the technology will be improved upon and eventually be terrrific, but as it stands now I can't see any serious stock racer wanting to switch over. Give it time, I'm sure the more sophisticated software will resolve these issues. Until then I'm perfectly happy status quo.
Also, to address one other issue: It seems like alot of this thread has been all sour grapes about stock racing, sponsorship etc. I've been fortunate enough to get a little help. It took going to 6-7 big races (where I shelled out for everything at my LHS on my own nickle), winning a regional and making some A-mains at the nats and other big races etc. to really get any meaningful help. I still am cost on most things (as it should be, not complaining), and the stuff I get isn't any better (mostly worse lol) than the stuff anyone can buy off the website. Its not like guys who are doing well are doing well because of their packs, motors, tires etc. They get deals or freebies because they earned it. Give a Jeff Cuffs level driver your car, sticks etc and watch how well he does with it.
Stock brushed feels good, the power band, the response to throttle input. Everytime I've driven one of the slower brushless meant to compete with stock/19t, (ie the 4300 etc), it feels lousy and I can't drive it comfortably or well. It's like the driving a brushed motor with your radio's throttle expo all screwed up and the profile on the esc messed up.
I'm sure the technology will be improved upon and eventually be terrrific, but as it stands now I can't see any serious stock racer wanting to switch over. Give it time, I'm sure the more sophisticated software will resolve these issues. Until then I'm perfectly happy status quo.
Also, to address one other issue: It seems like alot of this thread has been all sour grapes about stock racing, sponsorship etc. I've been fortunate enough to get a little help. It took going to 6-7 big races (where I shelled out for everything at my LHS on my own nickle), winning a regional and making some A-mains at the nats and other big races etc. to really get any meaningful help. I still am cost on most things (as it should be, not complaining), and the stuff I get isn't any better (mostly worse lol) than the stuff anyone can buy off the website. Its not like guys who are doing well are doing well because of their packs, motors, tires etc. They get deals or freebies because they earned it. Give a Jeff Cuffs level driver your car, sticks etc and watch how well he does with it.
Last edited by eforer; 09-08-2006 at 10:56 AM.
